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Old 08-22-07, 12:24 AM   #1
FlyRod
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Default Let's talk REAL cost...

...of line, that is...

Specifically, the difference between braid and mono/fluoro.

For reference, based on "Street" prices:

Braids:

Stren Microfuse Braid, 300 yds, #20 test: 32.99 Cost per yard: .11
Sufix Performance Braid, 300 yds, #20 test: 28.99 .0966
Power Pro Braid, 300 yds, #20 test: 24.99 .0833
Western Filament TUF Braid, 300 yds, #20 test:19.99 .067
NOTE: P-Line Spectrex IV Braid comes in a 500 yd spool .076
of #20 for 37.99.

OK, so we have a variety of types and prices for braid.

Monofilaments:

P-Line CX Premium, 300 yds, #20: 8.39 .028
Stren Original, 550 yds, #20: 15.99 .029
Berkley Trilene XL, 330 yds, #20: 7.99 .024
(fluoro-coated mono) P-Line FloroClear, 300 yds, #20: 9.99

Fluorocarbons":

Berkely Vanish Transition (Gag!), 250 yds, #20: 16.99 .068
P-Line Halo, 200 yds, #20: 24.99 .125
Seaguar CarbonPro, 200 yds, #20: 18.99 .095

Now, take the CPY and multiply by, say, 60 yards.
In the case of Stren Microfuse, you get...$6.60 per fill.
For the "high-end mono", Stren Original...$1.74 per fill.
For the "high-end" fluoro, P-Line Halo...$7.50

Now that you grasp what I'm doing, you can do further comparisons. But my point is; When some folks are asked, for example, "Why don't you use braid?" the response is "Too expensive!" But is it REALLY? (Especially compared to the price of Halo?)

OK, let's fill Lil' Zookie's reel with Stren Original, 60 yards worth. One fill=1.74.
Now let's fill Lil' Rebbie's reel with P-Line Halo. One fill=7.50
Now lets fill Kindly and Crafty Uncle Fly's reel with 60 yards of Microfuse.
One fill=6.60
Already I've got the Halo beat, but wait! If I want the invisibility of fluoro down near the business end I need a P-Line CFX leader, say 2 METERS at .64 per meter. OK, add another 1.28 to my 6.60, for a total of...lemme see...7.88.
Of course, I have one advantage and one disadvantage with the fluoro leader. Plus side: I get several re-ties without losing ANY of my braid...nice.
Down side: If I break the leader off at the *&%^$! J-knot, before I've gotten a yard or so of re-ties out of it, I lose some cents. Of course, I lose about 7-9" of both braid and leader when I add a new one, but that's a fair trade.
Now, chilluns, here's the kicker...
EVERY TIME someone has to re-tie, or suffers even a short breakoff, when using mono or flouro, they are that much closer to having to respool. Also, line abrasion, depending on the cause, can cost several feet of line in order to re-tie above the damage. Hmmmmmm.
You might say "Yeah, but sooner or later your braid is gonna fray to the point where YOU need to respool." True, but since I've lost LESS line than you have, especially if using a fluoro leader, all I have to do is REVERSE the line on the spool and "Voila"..."NEW" line toward the foe.
So. let's now cut the fill cost for ME in half, since I can get "twofers" on the original fill. Let's see here...not counting leader cost, since I don't use a leader all the time anyway...that comes to, WOW!...3.30 per "fill".
Remember too that braid is unaffected by age and heat AND CANNOT KINK, unlike mono and fluoro, so if all else WERE equal, you'd still have to respool far more often than I.
A couple of my reels have the same braid they received almost three years ago. They been through rain, shine, fire and brimstone, and even a few backlashes and that line is still up to the task.
Now, Reb will tell you, as I have, that I use FloroClear and some monos for their qualities in certain applications...everything has it's niche. But for someone to say "Braid costs too much!" Wellllllll...read it all again.

FR
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Old 08-22-07, 01:24 PM   #2
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Amen brother, Just another of the myriad of reasons I am sold on braid. Just to expand on a point you made...

Mono deteriorates and becomes brittle and week over time, my father and I have never been able to get more than 2 seasons Walleye fishing out of Mono, we are now into our 4th season on the same braid. Now, we are going back to mono on those reels for strangely enough some of the same reasons I like braid... The lack of stretch is causing us to loose too many fish. We troll on lake Erie, so we never stop moving, and fighting a fish in without the bit of give mono gave is just not working. Additionally, the stuff is just tearing up our releases. It digs into the rubber, and the line just refuses to release at that point. But for all other fishing applications, we are hooked on braid.
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Old 08-22-07, 01:42 PM   #3
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People saying braid cost too much is because all they see, the only thing they are able to see is the price sticker they´ve got right on their face.
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Old 08-22-07, 07:42 PM   #4
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Ok. If nobody knows, I'm kindof a rookie, not a beginner by no means.... but a rookie (I am starting to take fishing seriously now) What is the "best clear braid" out there. FR just sold me on it. and what are the +'s and -'s os said braid.
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Old 08-22-07, 07:59 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Hoyle27 View Post
OkWhat is the "best clear braid" out there. FR just sold me on it. and what are the +'s and -'s os said braid.
Hoyle,

I've not used a "Clear" braid, but the one that I did notice on the market didn't get much in the way of raves, so far as I know.
The Stren Microfuse I MAY enthuse about is of interest to me because it IS more visible than others on the market, appearing much the same as a fluorescent bluw mono under daylight or UV(Blacklight).
As you may have noticed in my "new product" thread, I have not fished with it and won't until Sat. Also mentioned, later in the thread, were the results of less-than-formal casting tests...so far, so good in that regard.
Why not read (or re-read) that thread?

FR
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Old 08-22-07, 08:18 PM   #6
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Thanks, I misunderstood that the braid was clear underwater. The lake I fish is almost over-fished. the bass are skittish....always. I'm just trying to get the upper hand in the deeper cover.
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Old 08-23-07, 12:25 PM   #7
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braid casts further, more sensitive, SUPER STRONG, rarely lose a lure using it (thats a huge $$$ savings right there) you can use a mono backing before spooling the braid, and then years down the road you can reverse it and reuse the other end. when you think about it, braid is so dang cheap that BPS, Cabelas, and Wal Mart should all be paying us to use it
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Old 08-23-07, 03:10 PM   #8
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I've never used braid before, but the last few times I've gone out, and been thrashing rat-l-traps, and crankbaits over rock piles, and through grass lines, and I've lost six in the last week or so, due to what I think is the line wearing through. I've started to cut off and retie more often, and checking the line very often, but am sick of respooling so awful much.

Is braid the best choice for crankbaits, spinners, etc... And do I understand that line clarity doesn't matter when it comes to cranks, spniners, top water, etc...

But I've heard so many good things about certain brands, and bad things about those same brands. Which one do you all normally use? I've heard spiderwire is alright, but never really looked into any of it.
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Old 08-23-07, 03:58 PM   #9
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Powerpro is my favorite right now.
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Old 08-23-07, 04:33 PM   #10
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Jerome "TheBus" Bettis,

Many will tell you to absolutely without any hesitation never ever should you use braid with spinnerbaits/crankbaits/jerkbaits simply because brai doesnt have enough 'give' to work with. the theory is that braid will rip the hooks out of a fishes mouth. Homestly, and my opinion, it wont... IF you set your drag a tad bit looser than you usually would. This allows the fish to run with the bait and insures that the bait wont be ripped out of the mouth. The hook set isnt a factor here, since fish will almost always set the hook on themselves in this type of fishing. Now as far as line visibilty [I think I may make a thread on the subject, as I'm very opinionated on it] t'is true you do not need to worry about line visibility when fishing any 'fast' moving lure. NOW, whether or not you EVER need to worry about line visibility is another issue. Unless you are fishing gin clear water, I can promise you it wont make the slightest of a difference.
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Old 08-23-07, 05:03 PM   #11
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I do love my braid. Reb turned me on to it several years ago and now it is (almost) all I fish with. I can't get my wife to make the switch, but I am working on her.

One caution with braid. Due to the fact that it is almost impossible to break, when you straighten the hook on a Spook or something similar and it comes whizzing back at you at 50 MPH, watch your shins. Two large treble hooks can cause a lot of bleeding. Just a rumor I heard. Anybody have a band-aid?
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Old 08-23-07, 05:24 PM   #12
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Yup,

BF02 is correct. While I do not use (so far, anyway,) braid for cranks, lipless, and jerks (Well, I did weave some into a horsewhip once I had that jetskier [See: Lake Louse] secured to a tree so I guess I DID use it on a jerk.) I DO use it, almost exclusively, for spinnerbaits, buZZZZZZZZZZZZbaits, toads, and occasionally for SPRO-type frawgs.
As BeeEffOught2 pointed out, "It's all in the drag."
The use of braid allows me to get a buZZZZZZZZZZbait a-abuZZZZZZZZing, a toad a-toaDDDDDDDDing, and a spinnerbait a-spiNNNNNNNNNNing literally at the instant it feels slightly damp. This, o'course, is due to the lack of stRRRRRRRetch.
I am considering the use of braid, in tests perhaps so low as #15, for cranks, lipless, jerks, etc, especially in cold weather, and if employing a "Stop 'n Go" retrieve...and MAYBE even with TW plugs IF I envision a fairly rapid walk-da-dawg or popping retrieve. These applications will, for me at least, require some testing to adjust the retrieve and wrist-action, especially avec a jerkbait to make certain that I know wotz goin' on "down there". Having a swimming pool, BTW, is a genuine boon, in that I can test at night with the u-water lights making it easy to see what the lure is doing.
On a related note; I believe in using graphite for all bassing; No glass, thanks. Why? Well, I've belabored the fatigue and ease-of-casting points in other threads, but it's also the increased sensitivity that attracts me.
Consider this; Any increase in sensitivity is a blessing...name one instance where it isn't (at least as it applies to fishing). Add the increased sensitivity afforded by braid when fishing a jerk bait or suspending crank, perhaps with pauses of thirty seconds or more, and I believe we have a winner.
Besides, if one of your other rods goes south, wouldn't you rather have that 'phite stick to switch your soft plastic to? I know I'd rather have 'phite than glass for that. 'Sides, I likes to feel me more wiggle (Don't touch that one, JB! I meant "in my lures!"...this time.) and 'phite gives me dat.

FR
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Old 08-23-07, 06:04 PM   #13
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Old 08-23-07, 11:17 PM   #14
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omg jb, mama looks pissed
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Old 08-24-07, 03:16 AM   #15
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Outrage from Jackson and Sharpton in 10...9...8...7...
They might, just might, have a point on this one.

FR
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Old 08-24-07, 06:37 AM   #16
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sure why not? they'll end up getting Vick off the hook sooner or later eh flyguy
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Old 08-24-07, 10:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassfisher02 View Post
Jerome "TheBus" Bettis,
Under no circumstances, should anyone ever put those two words in front of and behind my screen name. Hate the steelers, and really never liked him, the nickname I got while racing a few years back.

I hate the Steelers, and REALLY REALLY REALLY hate Jerome's good buddy Hines Ward.
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Old 08-24-07, 01:47 PM   #18
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GO BROWNS!

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Under no circumstances, should anyone ever put those two words in front of and behind my screen name. Hate the steelers, and really never liked him, the nickname I got while racing a few years back.

I hate the Steelers, and REALLY REALLY REALLY hate Jerome's good buddy Hines Ward.
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Old 08-24-07, 03:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassfisher02 View Post
Jerome "TheBus" Bettis,

Many will tell you to absolutely without any hesitation never ever should you use braid with spinnerbaits/crankbaits/jerkbaits simply because brai doesnt have enough 'give' to work with. the theory is that braid will rip the hooks out of a fishes mouth. Homestly, and my opinion, it wont... IF you set your drag a tad bit looser than you usually would. This allows the fish to run with the bait and insures that the bait wont be ripped out of the mouth. The hook set isnt a factor here, since fish will almost always set the hook on themselves in this type of fishing. Now as far as line visibilty [I think I may make a thread on the subject, as I'm very opinionated on it] t'is true you do not need to worry about line visibility when fishing any 'fast' moving lure. NOW, whether or not you EVER need to worry about line visibility is another issue. Unless you are fishing gin clear water, I can promise you it wont make the slightest of a difference.
You are absolutely correct. When fishing those lures with braid, your recommendations are spot on. It is what I do and haven't lost fish on the hook set since the first encounter when I realized what near zero stretch meant.
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Old 08-27-07, 11:17 AM   #20
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I keep reading about how braid can "dig in" to the spool, are we actually talking wrecking the spool, or some goofy fishing term that I don't know about.

All I ever use is baitcasters anymore, as my fishing has progressed, I don't feel comfortable with the light action rods, and don't have any stronger spinning outfits.

So this morning I was thinking, well, to take care of the digging problem, I'll just put some mono onto the reel first, then throw the braid on, is that a logaical solution, or just downright retarded.
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Old 08-27-07, 11:47 AM   #21
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Acutally the braid just digs in to the existing braid that is on the spool. Most of us use a mono backing due to the expense of spooling all the way with braid.
Most of the time the the digging in occurs with new braid is if you cast hard and far, or set the hook hard, or pull a snag free.
After the braid gets broken in, I've noticed the digging in issue reduces quiet a bit.
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