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Old 09-07-11, 06:24 PM   #26
Tavery5
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I understand your point 100%. My point is just this, gear ratio matters, it is a great indicator of what the reel is designed to do. If I only told you the gear ratio of two common reels on the market you could probably with a high rate of success tell me which one was designed for cranking and which one was going to pick up a lot of line on the retreive.

If I could only have 1 piece of info I would much rather have the gear ratio, as the difference between 24 and 26 inches of line means very little to me in terms of how the reel is going to feel. Ultimately we use both pieces of info to gain a good understanding of exactly how the reel is going to feel when we start turning the handle.

guess we have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Old 09-07-11, 07:30 PM   #27
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Ok Bryce one last ditch effort to explain why reels with different gear ratios retrieveing the same amount of line feel different when retrieved.

If you were only driving the spool and retrieving line when you cranked the handle your point of the input torque being the same would be true. In fishing reels when you crank the handle a number of things happen, the obvious is the spool turns, the overlooked may be the fact that the handle also drives the idler gear which in turn drives the worm gear which moves the line guide back and forth, also, if the reel uses magnetic braking the higher gear ratio reel will have the magnetic force of the brakes applied to the spool for a greater lenght of time. All these things may sound small, but it is what makes two similar reels feel very different in your hands.
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Old 09-07-11, 08:45 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavery5 View Post
I understand your point 100%. My point is just this, gear ratio matters, it is a great indicator of what the reel is designed to do. If I only told you the gear ratio of two common reels on the market you could probably with a high rate of success tell me which one was designed for cranking and which one was going to pick up a lot of line on the retreive.
I agree with you 100% that it is a good indicator of what the reel was designed to do. However, if you remember what started all of this was the new Abu Garcia MGX, in which they have two different ratio reels with the exact same IPT. Abu is muddying the waters IMHO, with a blatant appeal to irrelevant stats. For 99% of other cases, like I said...I agree with you.

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If you were only driving the spool and retrieving line when you cranked the handle your point of the input torque being the same would be true. In fishing reels when you crank the handle a number of things happen, the obvious is the spool turns, the overlooked may be the fact that the handle also drives the idler gear which in turn drives the worm gear which moves the line guide back and forth, also, if the reel uses magnetic braking the higher gear ratio reel will have the magnetic force of the brakes applied to the spool for a greater lenght of time. All these things may sound small, but it is what makes two similar reels feel very different in your hands.
If the idler is driven by the handle, and not the spool shaft, then the movement of the wormgear and levelwind will be the same on both reels, regardless of ratio. Remember, we are talking per turn of the handle, not the spool.

You're getting very creative on the magnetic braking issue. Allow me to volley that right back into your court.

We're talking apples to apples, right? Then I'm going to assume the magnetic brakes aren't set the same on both reels. Since the spools are different size, and spin at different rates during a cast, you will need to set the brakes differently to achieve identical casting behavior. Otherwise, we will be forced to argue about the effects of gear ratio on undoing birds' nests.

Oh well, this is great fun, but I think I'm going to turn on the TV and watch a debate that actually matters (well...maybe a little hehe).
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Old 09-07-11, 09:13 PM   #29
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I stand corrected on the idler gears, I had always thought that the gear ratio of the idler gears had to be matched to the drive gears it does not appear to be so. I researched a couple of different mfg's low speed and high speed reels and the idler gear set is identical in both reels. Well played sir, but your still wrong.
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Old 09-08-11, 02:45 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Tavery5 View Post
I stand corrected on the idler gears, I had always thought that the gear ratio of the idler gears had to be matched to the drive gears it does not appear to be so. I researched a couple of different mfg's low speed and high speed reels and the idler gear set is identical in both reels. Well played sir, but your still wrong.
That's like giving Bryce a make up hug and then immediately smacking him with a white glove!
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Old 09-08-11, 06:50 AM   #31
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Maybe im weird but I can retrieve a fish easier on a 5/1/1 or a 4/8/1 than I can with with a 7/1,I can merely fish faster and cover more water with a 7/1 with faster moving baits generally.That said one gets into actual line retrieval and some 5/1 retrieve as fast as some 6/1 due to spool.
My lews speed spool at 4/8/1 gets the fish in slower as far as retrieve but with more control or power than my diawa 7/1,thus quicker normally.
I am handicapped with muscle strength loss in the left hand,via a severed ulna nerve.
But its funny as never noticed the difference prior when I had two good hands.
Years have gone by and now have 45 pd grip strength in both but limitations in the injured hand.
And I dont like dd22 on anything,but your right harder with a spinning.
The cure for that for me was to take baits like tm 15,drill a 1/4 in hole underneath and fill with lead,paint over tosses easier goes just a deep.
In essence a lower geared reel winch does move while slower, more weight,just as a 2/1 or 225/1 outboard can move a larger pitch prop,and or heavier boat,may go no faster as a result,but put the 1.75/1 on same boat its slower due to weight etc.even though its a faster gear ratio.
Just my 2 cents
A faster 6 or 7 gr on a frog or buzzbait allows one to cover water,once hooked up with 6 lber back in the jungle id rather have a 4/8/1.
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Old 09-08-11, 09:11 AM   #32
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5/1/1 , 7/1/1 , 4/8/1, or WHATEVER,

Just get to fishing and enjoy Gods creation. I know each setting and reel has its place and time to work to the upmost potential but sometimes I think some people just need to slooow down and go fishing. Simple as that.

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Old 09-08-11, 02:45 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmule View Post
Maybe im weird but I can retrieve a fish easier on a 5/1/1 or a 4/8/1 than I can with with a 7/1,I can merely fish faster and cover more water with a 7/1 with faster moving baits generally.That said one gets into actual line retrieval and some 5/1 retrieve as fast as some 6/1 due to spool.
My lews speed spool at 4/8/1 gets the fish in slower as far as retrieve but with more control or power than my diawa 7/1,thus quicker normally.
I am handicapped with muscle strength loss in the left hand,via a severed ulna nerve.
But its funny as never noticed the difference prior when I had two good hands.
Years have gone by and now have 45 pd grip strength in both but limitations in the injured hand.
And I dont like dd22 on anything,but your right harder with a spinning.
The cure for that for me was to take baits like tm 15,drill a 1/4 in hole underneath and fill with lead,paint over tosses easier goes just a deep.
In essence a lower geared reel winch does move while slower, more weight,just as a 2/1 or 225/1 outboard can move a larger pitch prop,and or heavier boat,may go no faster as a result,but put the 1.75/1 on same boat its slower due to weight etc.even though its a faster gear ratio.
Just my 2 cents
A faster 6 or 7 gr on a frog or buzzbait allows one to cover water,once hooked up with 6 lber back in the jungle id rather have a 4/8/1.
Lower gearing supplies more power for winching in fish. The problem is that is not what reels are intended to do. The rod should be used to fight the fish with the reel taking up line as it come in.
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