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Old 12-23-12, 02:36 PM   #51
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The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun... I read that somewhere..
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Old 12-23-12, 02:43 PM   #52
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The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun... I read that somewhere..
Well said! It really is that simple.
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Old 12-23-12, 02:48 PM   #53
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well said! It really is that simple.
x2............
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Old 12-23-12, 03:19 PM   #54
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Well said! It really is that simple.
x3............
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Old 12-23-12, 03:29 PM   #55
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The only problem with that, is that they won't allow good guys or parents to have a gun with them at school. They did that gun free zone thing that was supossed to protect the kids but they forgot that some of these criminals and crazies don't reads signs.
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Old 12-23-12, 06:21 PM   #56
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The only problem with that, is that they won't allow good guys or parents to have a gun with them at school. They did that gun free zone thing that was supossed to protect the kids but they forgot that some of these criminals and crazies don't reads signs.
Maybe they need to change the signs to say, "every teacher at this facility is packing heat and will blow your fool head off, if your enter without permission." I can see the surge of private schools that offer highly increased security for a price.
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Old 12-23-12, 06:49 PM   #57
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The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun... I read that somewhere..

The CHALLENGE....

It's the 'good guys' they're disarming... but...Australia did a buy back of ARs and do claim it to be hugely successful.
This young man may have the right idea?

http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion...uybackxml.html

Now I know a lot of gun owners hesitate at any gun control and it maybe that even 'I' frown on it, but it's pretty wild in a large portion of Australia and it was started as a PENEL COLONY so by nature you KNOW the folks don't like the idea of ANYONE telling them what they can and can't do.
Lot of hunters TOO. Anyway the idea is worth hearing at any rate.


I can't really 'totally' land on either side...yet .
But I DO believe that THIS HAS TO BE TALKED about.
My hat goes off to EVERYONE who cares at least enough to think and share ideas on posible solutions.
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Old 12-23-12, 07:10 PM   #58
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Maybe they need to change the signs to say, "every teacher at this facility is packing heat and will blow your fool head off, if your enter without permission." I can see the surge of private schools that offer highly increased security for a price.
Now thats a sign I would like to see.
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Old 12-23-12, 09:08 PM   #59
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The CHALLENGE....

It's the 'good guys' they're disarming... but...Australia did a buy back of ARs and do claim it to be hugely successful.
This young man may have the right idea?

http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion...uybackxml.html

Now I know a lot of gun owners hesitate at any gun control and it maybe that even 'I' frown on it, but it's pretty wild in a large portion of Australia and it was started as a PENEL COLONY so by nature you KNOW the folks don't like the idea of ANYONE telling them what they can and can't do.
Lot of hunters TOO. Anyway the idea is worth hearing at any rate.


I can't really 'totally' land on either side...yet .
But I DO believe that THIS HAS TO BE TALKED about.
My hat goes off to EVERYONE who cares at least enough to think and share ideas on posible solutions.
According to this, the gun ban in Australia wasn't such a huge success. Crime rates are exploding in every catagory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=p8RDWltHxRc
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Old 12-27-12, 09:14 PM   #60
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"Frankly", as long as we're talking time travel, I wish someone could go back and prevent your conception with a well-placed condom.
We all know that stats, as gun owners, 5 times more likely to be killed by a firearm, having one in your house makes you 43 times more likely to be killed, or have a family member or friend be killed by that firearm...NFE, here's hoping you don't buck the odds.
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Old 12-27-12, 10:33 PM   #61
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We all know that stats, as gun owners, 5 times more likely to be killed by a firearm, having one in your house makes you 43 times more likely to be killed, or have a family member or friend be killed by that firearm
Tell that to the parents of the kids at Newtown. Or those at Columbine, Gabby Gifford and those in Arizona, etc, etc, etc. I've had guns in my house and on my person for over 40 years - I'm still alive.
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Old 12-28-12, 02:41 AM   #62
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We all know the Assault Weapons Ban was BS, anyone familiar with guns and the aftermarket knows we could always get what ever we wanted. Last, I am a gun owner, hunter, and father of a 5 and 9 yr old. I would never give up my rights to my guns, but really, you NEED an AR or AK w/high capacity mags? The solutions aren't in gun/ammo control, mental healthcare, arming teachers, body armor for our children, but in personal decision to change, to be a part of the change that is needed in turning our culture away from guns and violence.
Be real careful of wishing others ill will.
ESPECIALLY with guns and kids in your OWN home.

I DON'T CARE WHAT LAWS ARE MADE OR NOT....to wish someone and their family ill will at the end of a barrel is flat out INSANE!
Kind of tells who is responsible enough to OWN a gun doesn't it!
Every single MURDER by gun or other means started as a THOUGHT!
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Old 12-28-12, 01:20 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Dogmatic View Post
We all know that stats, as gun owners, 5 times more likely to be killed by a firearm, having one in your house makes you 43 times more likely to be killed, or have a family member or friend be killed by that firearm...NFE, here's hoping you don't buck the odds.


I dont know if you are playing or not. Maybe you really want Bryce or someone in his family to die. Maybe you just want to be ghoulish.


But it strikes me that the same cavalier attitude towards murder is what started the Newtown massacre. And all this in the very thread where we search for answers on how we can protect our children. You should be ashamed.
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Old 12-28-12, 06:12 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Dogmatic View Post
We all know that stats, as gun owners, 5 times more likely to be killed by a firearm, having one in your house makes you 43 times more likely to be killed, or have a family member or friend be killed by that firearm...NFE, here's hoping you don't buck the odds.
Classy as always Dogmatic.
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Old 12-28-12, 10:44 PM   #65
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Yet none of you have any problem with "Nofear's" statement? Can u say "hypocrite".
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Old 12-29-12, 12:33 AM   #66
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Ive only read the last 4 posts so I missed whatever he said.

Such talk is despicable after what has happened, and that goes for everyone on here. I have also been so stupid in the past to make out of bounds statements, but its time people reevaluate how they act, and how they discuss things. Especially, wishing death on someone, is low. Wishing they had never been born is also pretty low.
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Old 12-29-12, 12:54 AM   #67
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Yet none of you have any problem with "Nofear's" statement? Can u say "hypocrite".
Not saying what he said was right, but wishing someone to get killed is below the belt. And seeing how you always have a way of stirring the pot, I guess I just wasn't as bothered by what he said. But if he would have wished that you got killed I would still say it's wrong.
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Old 12-29-12, 12:58 AM   #68
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The solutions aren't in gun/ammo control, mental healthcare, arming teachers, body armor for our children, but in personal decision to change, to be a part of the change that is needed in turning our culture away from guns and violence.
Now no-ones ever going to say I'm the sharpest hook in the tackle box. But I've read, then re-read and even a third time read all the posts because I'm not seeing NFE's using any gun for anything but hunting or protection.
Now the hypothetical time machine...still not wishing bad on someones family. Plus I actually smiled when I read that. NO-ONE could take that seriously, or can they? And not because it was aimed at you. I just found it worth a smile.
But I'm not sure even if I'm being attacked. Am I the hypocrite?
Thought the idea was to help find solutions and not 'pander the destructive abilities of the tool itself'.
Your comment just seemed to do the opposite of what you said WE got to do.
I certainly am not knocking your views on control. Just the idea that guns are ONLY thought of as a destructive weapon, not as TOOLS with witch they truly are. There will always be someone who will use ANY TOOL for destructive purposes including a hammer or a screw driver.

As always I really find this thread valuable and most the banter enjoyable to read. I like to hear BOTH sides of any argument or solutions. I view a few things differently now and I'm sure I don't have enough information yet.
Guns are no more dangerous now than they were before the shooting. To use 'peoples emotions' to help get your own personal agenda accomplished is WRONG though.

Now this is just an opinion of MINE, not my families. So anyone who disagrees, wish ME harm, not my family.

Carry on anglers but try to remember...we are looking for a solution that I will guarantee will need compromises for BOTH sides.
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Old 12-29-12, 07:46 AM   #69
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The biggest detriment to "gun control" is our wonderful elected officials (especially those in D.C.) saying they may consider it. YOU CAN'T BUY A AR-15 (style) RIGHT NOW - everyone is SOLD OUT. Cabela's next TWO shipments (at our eastern PA store) is spoken for. That's gun control for ya. I'm on the list, but if someone attacks me in the next month, I'm helpless...
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Old 12-29-12, 11:36 AM   #70
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[QUOTE=Dogmatic;399891]Yet none of you have any problem with "Nofear's" statement? Can u say "hypocrite".[/QUOTE

Yes, his comment to something of the effect about wishing you were not born, I think I remember that was what it was. He was trying to be funny at the same time saying he wished you were not here. That was wrong and you would have been right to have made a comment about how childish that was.
To make a comeback wishing that he is the next statistic of gun violence or accidents make you the bad guy here and has destroyed all credibility you might have had with anyone here that you were suposedly against gun violence. You just wished it on someone.
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Old 12-29-12, 12:52 PM   #71
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We all know that stats, as gun owners, 5 times more likely to be killed by a firearm, having one in your house makes you 43 times more likely to be killed, or have a family member or friend be killed by that firearm...NFE, here's hoping you don't buck the odds.
Stats come from an anti gun site,heres real stats.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> ------------------------------
>
> In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> ------------------------------
>
> Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
> ------------------------------
>
> China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> ------------------------------
>
> Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> ---- ------------- -------------
>
> Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> ------------------------------
>
> Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> -----------------------------
>
> Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
> ------------------------------
>
> You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
>
> Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
>
>
>
> The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
>
> With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.
>
> During WW II the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED
>
> SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
> SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
> SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
>
> IT'S A NO BRAINER!
> DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
Gun laws effect only law abiding citizens,no I dont need a high capacity mag for anything yet dont want big brother to monitor or regulate beyond what it is currently.
The recent school shooting was a one sided affair on the news it had him going in with an assault rifle,even a coroners report stating damage done by one.
It was found in the car unfired,9mm pistols in mutiple numbers found in school.
So how would a high mag ban effect the outcome,one he got his guns illegally,had tried to buy and the system worked he couldnt,truth is he shouldnt have had such easy access.Had been in an altercation earlier with several people at the school,and if he hadnt of killed his mom the gun owner gotten guns he would have parked or driven car/van etc inside full of explosives.
The guns ,high capacity mags are not a problem nuts of the world are and they will find a way.
James "Tim" McVeigh as an example
I have firearms -even carry them dont wish anyone dead just want to stay alive myself.
Ask yourself this if gun laws work on criminals why do NYC and Chicago have the highest crime rates,with gun deaths very high,simply because the normal law abiding citizen does not have one is the answer.

Last edited by lilmule; 12-29-12 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 12-29-12, 01:06 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmule View Post
We all know that stats, as gun owners, 5 times more likely to be killed by a firearm, having one in your house makes you 43 times more likely to be killed, or have a family member or friend be killed by that firearm...NFE, here's hoping you don't buck the odds.
Stats come from an anti gun site,heres real stats.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> ------------------------------
>
> In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> ------------------------------
>
> Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
> ------------------------------
>
> China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> ------------------------------
>
> Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> ---- ------------- -------------
>
> Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> ------------------------------
>
> Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
> -----------------------------
>
> Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
> ------------------------------
>
> You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
>
> Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
>
>
>
> The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
>
> With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.
>
> During WW II the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED
>
> SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
> SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
> SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
>
> IT'S A NO BRAINER!
> DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
Gun laws effect only law abiding citizens,no I dont need a high capacity mag for anything yet dont want big brother to monitor or regulate beyond what it is currently.
The recent school shooting was a one sided affair on the news it had him going in with an assault rifle,even a coroners report stating damage done by one.
It was found in the car unfired,9mm pistols in mutiple numbers found in school.
So how would a high mag ban effect the outcome,one he got his guns illegally,had tried to buy and the system worked he couldnt,truth is he shouldnt have had such easy access.Had been in an altercation earlier with several people at the school,and if he hadnt of killed his mom the gun owner gotten guns he would have parked or driven car/van etc inside full of explosives.
The guns ,high capacity mags are not a problem nuts of the world are and they will find a way.
James "Tim" McVeigh as an example
I have firearms -even carry them dont wish anyone dead just want to stay alive myself.
In the past, we have disagreed several times on several subjects. But not this time. Good post mule.
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Old 12-31-12, 10:55 AM   #73
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I have started to reply to this thread on 3 separate occasions; one of those replies I copied and pasted to word a document that turned out to be 5 page doc single spaced in 10 font (after I pasted it) and I will continue to expound on it. I will not post it and did not for the simple fact I don't think it would have been read, but maybe one day it will be.

I can't recall if it was mentioned here and I have seen it in many different places; however, it kills me and is almost laughable when people mention the military coming for your guns. If anyone believes that they need to remember we took an oath (just as the President does, Senators/Congressman, etc) to support and defend the constitution. It is in every one of our oaths. Where the military is concerned and in my [almost] 16 years of service that oath actually has meaning to a lot of service members. I will go to court martial before I go to grabbing guns from law abiding citizens, because my oath protects me under that statement: I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. It it would be an unlawful and Unconstitutional order if we were order to take up arms against the citizens.

Did the National Guard do it in the wake of Hurricane Katrina? Yep, they sure did [from law abiding citizens] and their asses should have been fried...plain and simple!

I will end on this note though and I challenge each and every one of you (if you haven't done so); If you are truly concerned about your gun rights write your state reps, write Feinstein, write the President and write Speaker Boehner. I, like many of you, have little faith in our elected leadership; however, power in numbers has shown that it will win wars. Express how they have missed the mark with the gun ban proposal, the infringement of our 2nd Amendment and more importantly not addressing the facts of mental health, gun free zones (proven time and time again they have higher crime rates), protection of our children, teachers, etc.

I personally am on the fence about the NRA just for the simple fact I think LaPierre could've responded with a better response than what he did and they've been [as a whole] relatively quiet about this proposal since the President released his "video moment" stating his intent. Maybe they will come out full throttle if Speaker Boehner allows this bill to hit the floor. However, the NRA is the largest pro-gun voice we have and if you're not a member...join! Even if it is simply to strengthen their numbers. Are they a racket? Maybe, I don't know? Have they done things for gun owners where the government is concerned? Yes!

If money allows support Gun Owners of American, the SAF (Second Amendment Foundation) and any local organizations that defend your guns rights. Me, personally, I don't have the funds for all of these at the moment, in due time they will get money from me to support them so they can support us.

We can bicker back and forth on the internet all day long and it won't solve anything unless we take action. I have (re)joined the NRA and yes I am guilty of panic buying. I will be picking up a stripped lower for an AR-10 today.

Where AR's are concerned if you want one and can't find any, find a company who sells 80% lower receivers. Completely legal, completely off the books, no serial number, no requirement to register and for an additional 60 or so bucks those places will offer you the use of their CNC so YOU can complete the milling and begin the build. They will/should provide a qualified CNC operator to provide "over watch" and ensure you complete the milling properly. All in all you should be in it for between 150-160 bucks. Before I even begin the build of my AR-10 I will be purchasing a couple of these for future builds. Just a thought....

Again my thoughts, opinions, recommendations...Hope you all have a safe and Happy New Year!
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Old 12-31-12, 12:13 PM   #74
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I can't recall if it was mentioned here and I have seen it in many different places; however, it kills me and is almost laughable when people mention the military coming for your guns. If anyone believes that they need to remember we took an oath (just as the President does, Senators/Congressman, etc) to support and defend the constitution. It is in every one of our oaths. Where the military is concerned and in my [almost] 16 years of service that oath actually has meaning to a lot of service members. I will go to court martial before I go to grabbing guns from law abiding citizens, because my oath protects me under that statement: I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. It it would be an unlawful and Unconstitutional order if we were order to take up arms against the citizens.
USMC, it does my heart good to hear you say that, and I hope guys like you make up the vast majority of our armed forces.

However, as you mentioned about Katrina, there are still some bad apples in there, who will not simply tell the CO to go to stone cold hell when given an order like that. Those are the people I worry about. Ruby Ridge type stuff.

I really appreciate the advice on the 80% lowers. I may go that route. Any trouble finding ammo? I am finding a LOT of it out of stock.
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Old 12-31-12, 12:29 PM   #75
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When the government comes to disarm the citizens, it will not be by force, the American People would never stand for that. Our Constitutional rights, and system of Checks and Balances put in place by our for fathers to keep our government in check will be stripped from us in the name of safety and freedom, with the majority of Americans seeing nothing wrong with it. Meanwhile our Corrupt and disfunctional Government will finish bankrupting, and strip this nation of All that remains of what makes it great. Nevermind you can look at other Countries that have been down this road and see the outcome.

I was going to take the time to fill this part of my post with countless quotes from our forefathers warning of Government and the Corrupt, why the American Citizens Have the Rights laid out by our forefathers ( in their own words, not interprited for their "true Meaning") and what we should do when our government reaches the point where they no longer work for the people, or abide by the Constitution, But I think it is almost a lost cause.

I'm sorry to say that we no longer live in a Free Country, Our Freedoms are being stripped from us one by one, in the name of whats best for us, by special intrest groups, and corrupt politicians whom only care about their agendas. I guess when it comes down to it, you will probably see ole Doc on the news, as a crazy man with guns in his compound that refuses to disarm, spouting incoherrent gibberish about the Constitution, Bill of Rights and what our Forefathers wanted from us, I'm sure I'll be made out be as crazy as the next militant type, and probably most of the people seeing it on the news will agree that people like me are the reason no one should have guns.

IT IS TIME FOR THE SHEEPLE OF AMERICA TO WAKE UP, DEFEND OUR CONSTITUTION IN IT"S WHOLE, GET RID OF ALL OF THE CORRUPT POLITICIANS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE, AND GET THIS BACK TO A FUNCTIONAL GOVERNMENT FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE. Or, just surrender your rights peacefully and don't complain when you go for re-education.

Last edited by doc; 12-31-12 at 12:39 PM.
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