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Old 10-15-09, 01:13 PM   #26
Abbeysdad
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Originally Posted by AUFred View Post
You need the loop big enough for the whole bait to pass through for a proper Palomar.
Well, yea, but then these spinner baits don't have a true eyelet, just a finger bend on the wire.
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Old 10-15-09, 01:29 PM   #27
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I'd love to see how long it would take for saliva to dissolve fishing line to the point of failure. I'd wager it's a lot longer than the time between tying a knot and making that first cast.
Not sure I read an article several years ago that said never use saliva to lubricate a knot. I haven't since intentionally anyway.
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Old 10-15-09, 01:31 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Abbeysdad View Post
nah, not hardly. For example, some pretty serious acids/acidic compounds can be stored in plastic jugs. The pH of saliva is nowhere near acidic enough to do much of anything to Nylon used in most monofilament production and besides, don't you think it washes off pretty quickly when it hits the water?

Footnote: Saliva IS perhaps one of the most slickery natural lubricants there is perhaps except for some mucus which maybe is a topic for some other forum.

I tend to tie my knots for the day the night before. Of course I am just quoting an article I read a few years ago. Of course if I am fishing there is plenty of water available.
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Old 10-15-09, 01:38 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by AUFred View Post
I tend to tie my knots for the day the night before. Of course I am just quoting an article I read a few years ago. Of course if I am fishing there is plenty of water available.
I think the far bigger negative would be in tying the knot without any lubricant as this would most likely impart a pre-stress/strain that could substantially weaken the filament at not only the knuckle of the knock, but up the line through the cinch point.

(you read an article some years ago. I've been working in a monofilament extrusion plant for over 30 years - you can use salvia to lube your knots w/o any detriment to the polymer. )
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Old 10-15-09, 02:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by AUFred View Post
You need the loop big enough for the whole bait to pass through for a proper Palomar.
Fred...refer to my earlier post.

You can tie a small loop Palomar with no lure, then before you cinch it down, just drop the spinnerbait arm, blades and all, through it. It accomplishes the same thing, but less waste.
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Old 10-15-09, 02:37 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbeysdad View Post
I think the far bigger negative would be in tying the knot without any lubricant as this would most likely impart a pre-stress/strain that could substantially weaken the filament at not only the knuckle of the knock, but up the line through the cinch point.

(you read an article some years ago. I've been working in a monofilament extrusion plant for over 30 years - you can use salvia to lube your knots w/o any detriment to the polymer. )
Which company if you don't mind me asking? You can answer thru PM if you prefer. Just curious.

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Fred...refer to my earlier post.

You can tie a small loop Palomar with no lure, then before you cinch it down, just drop the spinnerbait arm, blades and all, through it. It accomplishes the same thing, but less waste.
With my poor eyesight I can imagine I would screw that up. LOL!
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Old 10-15-09, 03:12 PM   #32
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dern thing never even got a hit.
None of mine have ever got a hit except one, and I think that was a dink.

I tie the Fish n fool Knot on everything I fish. Easy to tie and hasn't failed for me yet.
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Old 10-15-09, 04:11 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by nofearengineer View Post
Fred...refer to my earlier post.

You can tie a small loop Palomar with no lure, then before you cinch it down, just drop the spinnerbait arm, blades and all, through it. It accomplishes the same thing, but less waste.
hmmm....ever wonder why they didn't loop the wire around to make more of a true eyelet on these spinner baits (just thinkin out loud and wondering).

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None of mine have ever got a hit except one, and I think that was a dink.

I tie the Fish n fool Knot on everything I fish. Easy to tie and hasn't failed for me yet.
OH....okay, I'll bite....what's the fish n fool knot?
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Old 10-15-09, 04:29 PM   #34
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hmmm....ever wonder why they didn't loop the wire around to make more of a true eyelet on these spinner baits (just thinkin out loud and wondering).

OH....okay, I'll bite....what's the fish n fool knot?
I have some older spinnerbaits where they twisted the wire into a true eyelet. I think spinnerbaits are stronger without the wire twisted.
The R shape I believe was started for a variety of reasons.
1) Ease in manufacture.
2) Imparts more Vibration or feel.
3) The materials such as titanium & stainless are harder to bend into a loop.
4) As i stated may actually be stronger.
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Old 10-15-09, 04:31 PM   #35
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As far as spinnerbaits & actually catching fish, I have had decent success especially waking the bait. I have probably caught more on an in-line spinnerbait (Snagless Sally) than a typical spinnerbait.
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Old 10-15-09, 06:06 PM   #36
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http://www.bassfishin.com/bassfishin...ad.php?t=19004

how to tie the fish n fool.

BB
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Old 10-15-09, 06:33 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by BigBassin144 View Post
I believe this knot is also referred to as the Double Uni knot.


-Mark
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Old 10-15-09, 07:04 PM   #38
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Default Line Lubrication

While reading the Seaguar website Q&A they suggested a very good method of lubing your line when tying a new knot is to use chap stick. I keep a small container of it in the top of my tackle box and it's great. The knot slips up quick and tight. Also I keep a goo'd up (wth chap stick) piece of cloth pinned to my fly fishing vest when i'm up the creek to lube the tippet.

Also when tying the palomar knot I always check to be sure that the loop, when snugging it up, has been directed to very front of the completed knot.

This is usually "knot" an issue with spinner-bait mainly because there is no "eye" per se but the loop can get caught at the closure end of a hook eye when tying it to a regular hook or eye leaving the knot unfinished and it will untie. When you described the curley Q condition it sounds like the knot was never finished ( i think you may have mentioned that).

Never had spit fail.
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Old 10-15-09, 08:59 PM   #39
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That's interesting about the chapstick.

From what I've read, using spit isn't so much about the lubrication as it is about getting rid of heat. Spit or water is a much better conductor of heat than nylon or fluorocarbon lines. So, the spit takes away the heat from the line. And since it is the heat that damages the line, it shouldn't get damaged.

Lubing the knot does reduce friction and helps to cinch the knot correctly as well.

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Old 10-15-09, 10:12 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by BigBassin144 View Post
That's interesting about the chapstick.

From what I've read, using spit isn't so much about the lubrication as it is about getting rid of heat. Spit or water is a much better conductor of heat than nylon or fluorocarbon lines. So, the spit takes away the heat from the line. And since it is the heat that damages the line, it shouldn't get damaged.

Lubing the knot does reduce friction and helps to cinch the knot correctly as well.

BB
Good point and well-made, BB144.
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Old 10-16-09, 02:24 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by woody View Post
I believe this knot is also referred to as the Double Uni knot.
-Mark
Mark, looking at this closely, I believe you are right, this is a UNI knot with a double pass through the eye.

I played with tying that knot last night along with the Palomar with the extra (surgeon knot style) pass through the loop.
I think these are both good knots, but the Palomar is a bit easier to tie. I think it should be the 'surgeons palomar'.

In all honesty, looking over the Palomar (in animated knots) again, I think I just maybe have at times, brought the loop out over the eye instead of cinching it down on the hook shank - my bad.
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Old 10-16-09, 07:37 PM   #42
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Hmmm I wonder if you tie your knot while your baits in the water if the water is cold enough it shuld reduce the heat the friction is makeing... and it would eliminate that question did you put enough lubricant on your line when you cinch it down... What do you guys think ?
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Old 10-16-09, 09:02 PM   #43
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Mark, looking at this closely, I believe you are right, this is a UNI knot with a double pass through the eye.

I played with tying that knot last night along with the Palomar with the extra (surgeon knot style) pass through the loop.
I think these are both good knots, but the Palomar is a bit easier to tie. I think it should be the 'surgeons palomar'.

In all honesty, looking over the Palomar (in animated knots) again, I think I just maybe have at times, brought the loop out over the eye instead of cinching it down on the hook shank - my bad.
After reading your last post and looking at the animated knots again I know Ive been tying it up over the eye and doing it wrong. One reason I started doing it like this is because if pulled up on the wrong side of the shank it can get pulled into that sharp spot at the end of the eye where it joins the shank and it will nick the knot. Im going to try it the correct way.

I just retied it using some braid and when tied as seen in the animated knot picture (loop on the shank) when cinched tight the loop slides up and rest at the top of the eye. I really think the animated knot picture is not yet cinched tight. If tied to the opposite side of the shank it will cinch up into the gap and you sure don't want it there. Hence I really think it needs to be tight over the eye. If when you lost your spinner bait I'll bet money you cinched into the gap and it cut your knot. This would all be null and void with spinner bait as it doesn't have a shank anyway or at least no eye on many of mine.
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Old 10-16-09, 10:13 PM   #44
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I'd love to see how long it would take for saliva to dissolve fishing line to the point of failure. I'd wager it's a lot longer than the time between tying a knot and making that first cast.
Thats what I was thinking. Thats 1 minute, max.

I use the improved clinch for mono and floro, and a glued palomar on braid. I just use cheap liquid super glue. I've had some palomar knots snap on me when casting with mono and floro, so I go with the tried and true improved clinch.
I've seen a florocarbon strength test somewhere online that showed a palomar knot tested at 90some% strength, while the clinch was at 80%, give or take. I'm just more comfortable with the clinch. I don't think the palomar has any room for error.
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Old 10-16-09, 10:26 PM   #45
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Thats what I was thinking. Thats 1 minute, max.

I use the improved clinch for mono and floro, and a glued palomar on braid. I just use cheap liquid super glue. I've had some palomar knots snap on me when casting with mono and floro, so I go with the tried and true improved clinch.
I've seen a florocarbon strength test somewhere online that showed a palomar knot tested at 90some% strength, while the clinch was at 80%, give or take. I'm just more comfortable with the clinch. I don't think the palomar has any room for error.
I think the clinch knot is quick and easy and when the fingers get cold easier for me to tie. I like the strength of th palomar knot but I agree it can be a hazard to your fishing.
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Old 10-17-09, 09:58 PM   #46
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Either the knot was tied wrong or the line flat out failed......
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Old 11-19-09, 12:23 AM   #47
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Never had a palomar fail and it is the only knot I tie because of that. I am guessing you forgot to bring the bait all the way back through the loop or your line was faulty.
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Old 12-11-09, 08:40 PM   #48
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Sometimes That Just Happens
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Old 12-12-09, 06:51 AM   #49
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I have had good luck cinching down a duncun's loop on spinnerbaits.
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