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Old 02-25-10, 07:24 PM   #1
WTL
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Default Novice rod building questions

I have decided to try to build my own rod for a Revo Premier that I got in the Gander firesale. I want to learn a little more about the process, and am also attracted to the idea of getting a more customized rod for my preferences.

But I have a couple rank beginner questions regarding ordering blanks and grips.

I am thinking about using the following blank...

Rainshadow XSB843-TC RX8 Graphite Spin Bass Rod Blank

Catalog # 261324 The Rainshadow XSB843-TC 7' one piece spin bass rod blank features RX8 graphite, a cutting edge 54 million high modulus, high strain graphite strengthened by the lightest fiberglass scrim available. Beautiful titanium chrome finish, fast action, medium heavy power, .468" butt, 5.0/64ths inch tip."
===============================================


Now in addition to being open to any advice about other blank models that yall might think might be better, I have some specific questions that would hold for this blank

1) I want to use a pacific bay minima two piece reel seat, how do I determine what would be the proper inner diameter seat that I should order without having the blank in hand?

2) Same question for the grips. I will order EVA. What inner diameter should I choose?

3) What do the terms spin/jig and mag bass really mean in regards to blanks? Are they just soft descriptions of rod action? I plan to use this a lot for spinnerbaits, traps, some of my power fishing and worm casting in the middle range of weight. Am I going in the right direction?
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Old 02-25-10, 08:16 PM   #2
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Man I never tried the RX8..But Im building a 7'6 RX7 right now...Plus I did the RX7 crankbait rod for myself awhile back....I really,really like Rainshadow blanks...I think the RX8 would be an excellent choice!!...The biggest thing people notice is the light weight.

I know the mag bass blanks have a magnum taper,and are just more heavy duty in general,Ive never built on one,but I trust Rainshadows.

Heres a link to Batson with more descriptions on thier blanks
http://www.batsonenterprises.com/ind...130&Itemid=327

I wish you good luck with that Minima seat,haha...I found those to be a pain to build with,but thats just me
The best way is to orde all at once to save on shipping...Usually you can call the supplier,tell them what you want your handle length is,and have them match it up...On those Minima's,the hood only comes in one size,so alot of shimming is required..Just a heads up....
Its also a good idea to add 1/2 a millimeter in size if your unsure..All blanks are a little different.

If your ordering from Mudhole,call and ask Todd Vivian, he's known to help people matching up components with blanks.
Jannsnetcraft,screwed me over and gave me a bad size!

But do yourself a favor and get a inches/millimeter caliper...Its a life saver!

I find that 3/8 in EVA fits almost every bass rod Ive built..It will stretch 25% and if its slighty loose...Shim it with masking tape..

Check out rodbuilding.org & rod building tutorials.com....both really good sites!

Sorry I had to rush my answer...Gotta leave work.
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Old 02-25-10, 08:56 PM   #3
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Thats a good bit of advice. Thanks. Do you think Mr. Vivian would be able to give me and idea on the proper reel seat diameter even if they don't carry the specific blank?

I really like the radical weight idea of the minima seats so I guess, if I have to struggle a bit, then I gotta struggle a bit.
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Old 02-25-10, 09:46 PM   #4
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Personally, I'd go over to net craft and fit the reel seat to the rod.

Seriously though, give net craft a call. I know Kevin over there builds a lot of rods, but any of the guys should be able to tell you the right diameter to use. They should be able to give you the right size for the EVA as well.

As for the spin/jig/mag bass stuff, I can't help you there. But again, I'm sure talking to one of the rod builders over at net craft can get this worked out for you as well.

Waffle, I gotta ask, how you like that crankbait blank? My crankin stick in built on the 7' M M and I love it! Very light weight, and great for casting shallow cranks. It could easily cast light lures I wouldn't dare try cast without a Daiwa Pixy.

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Old 02-25-10, 09:50 PM   #5
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Rainshadow blanks are great blanks and the RX8's are some of the best blanks on the market, IMO. I think the blank you are looking at would probably be considered a spinning rod blank. Not that it really matters, they are interchangeable. If I were building a casting rod for the applications you describe I would probably go with at least the XMB843-TC. If you notice the butt on the XSB is less than 1/2". The XMB is over 1/2", like waffle said it is a magnum taper which should give you more backbone. FYI the numbers given to a particular blank tell what it is, 843, 84 is 84" and the 3 is the power, so it's a 7' 3 power blank.

I normally buy the blank, guides, tip, grip material and hook keeper on my first order. When I get the blank I handle it and try to decide where I want the reel seat to be based on how the blank balances. I use a caliper to take good measurements, you also have to decide if you're going to use winding checks or not, if so you need measurements of where they are to go.

If you do decide to go with eva your fighting butt choices are somewhat limited. You can go with a cork/eva butt or buy a plastic butt cap and make your own with eva grip material. 3/8" Id is a safe bet.

Mudhole does not carry rainshadow blanks but I'm sure any place that does will have some sort of technical support to help you. I've built on a Mudhole MHX blank and was very pleased with it. They very closely mimic Loomis IMX blanks as far as action and power. The blank I built on was the MB843MHX, basically the same action and power as the blank you are considering. The price is about half of the Rainshadow, it is very light and very sensitive, I would definitely build on another MHX.

I've heard good things about Phenix Blanks and I've also built on Lamiglas blanks. I built a cranking stick on one of their composite blanks and I'm working on a Lamiglas IM700 popping blank now that is going to be a finesse spinning rod.

Sorry for the long rambling post, hope it made some sense. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, I don't have too many rods under my belt but I would be more than happy to share what little bit of knowledge I've picked up thus far. Read all you can, there are many good websites with tutorials out there.

http://www.rodbuildingforum.com/index.php?

http://rodbuilding.org/list.php?2

http://www.rodbuildingtutorials.com/

Last edited by Jrob78; 02-25-10 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 02-25-10, 11:30 PM   #6
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I can't hellp you much, but you have my blessing WTL. I just finished stripping and re-wrapping for a practice run on an old Lightning rod. I am fixing to mix my epoxy to finish the wraps. It can be very addicting. I am glad I have small children to pull me away from it. I also advise to PM Jrob and Waffle for their phone number. hahahaha
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Old 02-26-10, 10:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBassin144 View Post
Waffle, I gotta ask, how you like that crankbait blank? My crankin stick in built on the 7' M M and I love it! Very light weight, and great for casting shallow cranks. It could easily cast light lures I wouldn't dare try cast without a Daiwa Pixy.

BB
Man I like it alot!....Still the best all around rod Ive built on.Very responsive,and light as a feather..I plan on sleeping around with other brands since Im still a baby in all this,but Rainshadows are definitely a sure bet from the two blanks that Ive handle...I mocked up the guides on this 7'6'' last night and it still feels nice,stiff,and recovers great!.....If I could afford them,I really wanna try those North Fork blanks...But I just rationalize paying that much just for the blank.
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Old 02-26-10, 10:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
If I could afford them,I really wanna try those North Fork blanks...But I just rationalize paying that much just for the blank.
Man, I really want to try them out too but they start at $140 and go up from there. Once you factor in shipping...it's too rich for my blood right now. I am thinking really hard about building on a Lamiglas Excel blank, they have a 7'3" 4 power blank that looks like it would make a perfect Senko/Fluke rod. I think you could do some really cool things with that copper color too!

Lamiglas Excel blanks
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Old 02-26-10, 11:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
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Man, I really want to try them out too but they start at $140 and go up from there. Once you factor in shipping...it's too rich for my blood right now. I am thinking really hard about building on a Lamiglas Excel blank, they have a 7'3" 4 power blank that looks like it would make a perfect Senko/Fluke rod. I think you could do some really cool things with that copper color too!

Lamiglas Excel blanks
That copper color would look good with dark blue wraps and a Daiwa Viento or Tierra.

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Old 02-26-10, 11:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
That copper color would look good with dark blue wraps and a Daiwa Viento or Tierra.
Hmm...I was thinking more along the lines of a dark burgandy color to match my Fuego. I hadn't really thought about blue.
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Old 02-26-10, 12:02 PM   #11
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I always take into consideration complementary colors.

But yeah, it would make a good match for a Fuego as well.

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Old 02-26-10, 12:28 PM   #12
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Back to the topic at hand.

WTL, do you have a rod wrapper? If you are serious about doing this i would definitely look into making one yourself, they can be as simple or complex as you want. Mine is 4' long with adjustable stands and a fully adjustable thread carriage. It cost about $15 in hardware and I got the scrap wood at work. Or you can go as simple as a cardboard box with v's cut in it and a phone book for your thread tensioner.

If you don't have a drying motor you will have to stick around for at least an hour or two to rotate the rod every so often while the epoxy is setting up. Some experienced builders actually say that you get better results doing it this way as apposed to a motor. You can pick up a drying moter with a chuck off of ebay for less than $20, I think mine was $13.
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Old 02-26-10, 02:17 PM   #13
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I have a rig made up out of some 1X6s and other pieces of scrap. I am still fooling with it a bit, trying to get it as comfortable as I can. Wrapping those microguides is tough, I did some the other day, but I decided to redo the guides, but its so tough its causing me to rethink a few things like how I put tension on my spools and stuff.

Depending on how well the finish comes off on this rod I am rewrapping, I might get a dryer motor or I might not.
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Old 02-26-10, 02:23 PM   #14
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The best way I found to wrap micro guides is to use little bitty rubber bands to hold them on the blank. You don't need to have your tension too high and I always file the guide feet down to make a nice smooth transition. Once you wrap up to where the rubber band is, cut it off and you should be good to go. I also use the Forhan locking wraps on single foot guides, especially micros.

Forhan locking wrap
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Old 02-26-10, 02:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTL View Post
I have a rig made up out of some 1X6s and other pieces of scrap. I am still fooling with it a bit, trying to get it as comfortable as I can. Wrapping those microguides is tough, I did some the other day, but I decided to redo the guides, but its so tough its causing me to rethink a few things like how I put tension on my spools and stuff.

Depending on how well the finish comes off on this rod I am rewrapping, I might get a dryer motor or I might not.

I thought Id share the easy first tension device I used...Which really works great and is easy to maintain and use...Hell I might even go back to it!

An easy tension device is to take two pieces of 1/2'' wood about 2'' x 6''...(1/4'' might even be better) Get some 1/4 bolt stock and cut it about 2....Stack you wood then drill to 1/4'' holes in the sides....glue the bolts into the bottom base holes...let the top slide freely....use wingnuts to tighten and loosen tension..Then mount this to a base board long enough for the thread to be postioned behind it ....(1/4'' bolt stock also makes great spool holders)

Heres a diagram I made to give you a visual...(my master paint skills)

The cool thing about this one is when you cut the thread,it wont snap back and get tangled in the spool....I use spring tension now,and it can be a pain cutting thread out of the springs that get tangled up.

But make sure you sand the wood really good....Then in between the two pieces,lay two sheets of paper in there for the thread to run through...This way it wont get frayed.
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Old 02-26-10, 03:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrob78 View Post
The best way I found to wrap micro guides is to use little bitty rubber bands to hold them on the blank. You don't need to have your tension too high and I always file the guide feet down to make a nice smooth transition. Once you wrap up to where the rubber band is, cut it off and you should be good to go. I also use the Forhan locking wraps on single foot guides, especially micros.

Forhan locking wrap

Where do you get the little rubber bands? Last night I tried to use a piece of skirt material tied in a little loop, but it was tough to keep it tight,.


Waffle, I think thats a better idea than what I had. I had the tension applied to the spool by screwing the spool into the wood as tight as I needed it..then I had an old guide superglued to a piece of scrap steel where I would position it like you did your paper tensioner...it helps with the thread jumping the spool some. I'm gonna try it your way.
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Old 02-26-10, 04:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Where do you get the little rubber bands? Last night I tried to use a piece of skirt material tied in a little loop, but it was tough to keep it tight,.
You can find little rubber bands in the womens hair care isle at Walmart, Target, probably even the grocery store. The ones I use are black and come in like a 200 pack of assorted sizes, I only use the smallest ones. When you get close to the tip you might have to double or triple one, it's still small enough to work around though.

I tried guide foot glue, tape, little zip ties, nothing else worked nearly as well as the rubber bands.
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Old 02-26-10, 04:15 PM   #18
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Lol, time to go look at womens hair care products then....

I have used 3m adhesive in just a spot to help the thread be a little stickier, not sure its helping too much.
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Old 02-26-10, 04:17 PM   #19
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I have used 3m adhesive in just a spot to help the thread be a little stickier, not sure its helping too much.
Is this to help hold the guides on or are you having trouble getting the wrap started?
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Old 02-26-10, 04:45 PM   #20
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Little of both, mostly getting the wrap started and tight
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Old 02-26-10, 05:04 PM   #21
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Where do you get the little rubber bands? Last night I tried to use a piece of skirt material tied in a little loop, but it was tough to keep it tight,.


Waffle, I think thats a better idea than what I had. I had the tension applied to the spool by screwing the spool into the wood as tight as I needed it..then I had an old guide superglued to a piece of scrap steel where I would position it like you did your paper tensioner...it helps with the thread jumping the spool some. I'm gonna try it your way.
Sounds like what Im using now...I epoxied three guides to the wood,and the threads are mounted behind that on 1/4'' bolts....Its goes:
washer-thread spool-washer-spring-washer-wingnut...It works pretty damn well,with the exception of the wingnut loosen and tightening on its own..That and the thread falling off the spool is a pain,lol

I just started using rubber bands after chatting with Jrob..They work pretty well..Im not sure how much Ill like it once I start wrapping,but for a static test they worked great..Experimenting with new techniques is part of the fun....I usually cut thin ,thin strips of masking tape to hold the guides in place..It seems to be easier for me to remove that once my wrap starts getting close.

I also think its good to start a wrap a little loose,this way you can manage to striaghten it out early in the beginning for a smooth wrap....After you get it striaght and wrap it about ten times (or how ever many you like) grab the tag end and pull it tight to cinch it all down..Then cut you tag end and continue wrapping.

Another small tip,lol....If you need a break in a long wrap and you dont wanna cut the thread,wrap masking tape around the wrap where your working and loosen your thread.Just one wrap of tape..it'll hold it tight till you get back...Then tighten the thread spool back,remove the tape and continue working..This is great for a quick bathroom break
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Old 02-26-10, 05:36 PM   #22
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I didn't think the rubber bands at my walmart were small enough. And they were expensive, $3.50 for a pack, so I decided to buy pringles instead. Ahh walmart....

What I have been doing for the past 3 guides (I am working on it and coming back to the puter every 30 minutes or so) is I am taking my old fly tying bobbin, and I am starting the thread wrap, then I take the microguide in between my left thumb and index and slip the foot under a thread, wrap the bobbin back around a couple more times, massage the thread tighter and down, and then continue wrapping.
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Old 02-26-10, 06:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
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I didn't think the rubber bands at my walmart were small enough. And they were expensive, $3.50 for a pack, so I decided to buy pringles instead. Ahh walmart....

What I have been doing for the past 3 guides (I am working on it and coming back to the puter every 30 minutes or so) is I am taking my old fly tying bobbin, and I am starting the thread wrap, then I take the microguide in between my left thumb and index and slip the foot under a thread, wrap the bobbin back around a couple more times, massage the thread tighter and down, and then continue wrapping.
So it sounds like you are wrapping the thread by hand, not turning the rod with the thread stationary, is that right? The thing I would be afraid of with having the guide not secured in some way is that you won't be able to line them up. The rubber bands are great because you can place the guides exactly where you want them, you can look down the rod and make sure everything is lined up before you ever start wrapping. Maybe a really thin strip of tape would work. I remember trying to do it like you're talking about, i had a really hard time holding the tiny guide and getting the thread to wrap over it.
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Old 02-27-10, 01:26 PM   #24
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I got them lined up doing it that way. The hand wrapping is really just to get the thread started over the foot, then I can adjust the guide. But all of this is done either on, or partially on the lathe, i have at times picked the rod off one of the forks a little to get it closer. It can be hard to explain as a technique what I do, I think everyone just finds what they are comfortable with. I will probably tweak the lathe some more later and it might end up I just start doing everything that way.

BTW, Jrob, do you remember the diameter reel seat that MB843MHX required? I was talking to mudhole via email support, but they have failed to get back to me and I am getting itchy to get my order in. The blank you used sounds like a good enough one to try, especially considering the cost.
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Old 02-27-10, 02:27 PM   #25
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I got them lined up doing it that way. The hand wrapping is really just to get the thread started over the foot, then I can adjust the guide. But all of this is done either on, or partially on the lathe, i have at times picked the rod off one of the forks a little to get it closer. It can be hard to explain as a technique what I do, I think everyone just finds what they are comfortable with. I will probably tweak the lathe some more later and it might end up I just start doing everything that way.

BTW, Jrob, do you remember the diameter reel seat that MB843MHX required? I was talking to mudhole via email support, but they have failed to get back to me and I am getting itchy to get my order in. The blank you used sounds like a good enough one to try, especially considering the cost.
Glad you got everything figured out, so far. You are exactly right, everyone has their own techniques for doing things. Everyone I've talked to does things differently than I do. Actually that might say more about me!?!

Good choice going with MHX I think you will be very pleased. I just checked my mudhole records and i used a 13mm reel seat. I like pretty long grips though, that rod measures 10.5" from the bottom of the butt cap to the bottom of the reel seat. If you want the grip shorter than that I would just order a 13.5 or 14.

I wasn't going to tell this story but I will now as it fits. On my MHX i had intended to use a Minima reel seat. I ordered the Minima in the size I needed and I went ahead and ordered a regular Fuji ECS seat. The Fuji fit, the Minima didn't. It was smaller than the Fuji. Surely I just got a bad one that wasn't measured or marked correctly. I've talked to other people that haven't had any problems. They are cheap though, it might not be a bad idea to order a back up of something you know you are going to like in case you don't like the Minima for whatever reason, or it doesn't fit like it should.
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