Micro Guides

[Jrob78]

This topic has come a few times in the chat room over the last few days. I have a little experience with the little guides so I thought I would share. I am in no way an expert or trying to sway anyone's opinion on them.

I recently built a casting rod with all size 4 Fuji Alconite micro guides. I didn't do it because I necessarily thought it would be a vast improvement over regular guides, I just thought it would be something fun to try from a rod building aspect. Plus I wanted find out for myself what all the fuss was about.

I've had a chance to fish the rod about 10 times so far. It is a 7' MH/F built on a MHX blank. There are a few things you have to do differently, build wise, than you would with regular guides. The first guide is quite a bit farther from the reel seat than conventional, also the guides at the tip are closer together so that the line doesn't drop below the blank. Static testing is a must to get the proper layout. My rod has 10 guides plus the tip-top.

One advantage is weight, the micros are quite a bit lighter than conventional guides. My rod weighs in at just under 4oz, this is with a split grip, no foregrip and a tiger wrap that runs about 8". The main thing I've noticed though is that the casting distance with this rod is better than any other rod I own. I haven't measured it or even done a side by side comparison but when you fish all the time you can tell. I know that this rod casts farther than normal and I've put 2 different reels on it so that isn't it. Supposedly the line pulls in more of straight line during the cast instead of slapping side to side, this is due to the small opening it has to pass through. I also feel as though the micros are less likely to get hung on something while loading and unloading. If you fish with leaders micros probably aren't for you, they are too small to pass knots of any size.

I know that rods with these guides are getting ready to hit the market, I don't know if they are truly "the next big thing" that will have a positive impact or just another fad designed to catch fishermen. In my limited experience with them they have made a positive impression on me.

If anyone else has any experience with micros please give your impressions of them.

[CamG]

Cool rod! I've been reading a little about this lately. Seems to make sense to me. I believe that I read that on a 7' rod, this new company is stacking 14 micro guides in there. I think I'm going to buy one just to see what all the fuss is about.

[nofearengineer]

They look funny!!

I'm sort of skeptical about what they are supposed to do. In the real world, if you are having trouble getting something through a hole, you don't usually make the hole smaller. However, I will keep an open mind, because things that happen quickly, like line flying through guides, sometimes don't follow conventional wisdom. I'd really like to cast one myself.

[WTL]

I kinda understand the process similar to what they say with backpressure on exhaust systems. Some claim that having too large of pipes creates a tendency for exhaust to bounce in pipes, instead of orderly being pulled out. I have always been a little unsure if exhaust works just like that, but the idea is intriguing enough I am going to try it - on my father's birthday gift or something...

I am going to do it with a long, pistol gripped, slow action rod, no foregrip, new style dropshot hook keepers with a counterbalence weight in the butt...I think I am going to make this, match it on a small baitcaster and give it to dad. And it might be a POS. But he is so old fashioned he might get a kick out of an updated pistol grip. I know I will just making such a project.

[Bubba_Bruiser]

As I told you before JR, good looking build. Not doubting your word, but like NFE said, I would like to throw one a few times before I committed to one. It may be an idea if I make it past my first build.

[Bassboss]

Cool, thanks, for the run down thingy!

Looks pretty cool, something to look into for sure!

[3dkicker]

The custom rod builder I sell for is now building with micro guides and sold some today at the flea market. He's been ahead of the curve for a while now with his designs. He's done wrap arounds, split grips, etc and has been playing with the smaller guides. He likes them and has fished with them this past year to test them out. Looks like they work real well or he wouldn't be selling them.

[WTL]

Oddly enough, the selling point that the line doesn't get tangled as easy in tight quarters with other rods is a pretty big selling point to me with all my limited space. Also the braid I use sometimes in the wind will blow over the top guides and it slows me down a bit, that might help.

A lot of people are liking them. Thats some smoke in the way of a positive review, its not conclusive, but its worth the shot.

[Jrob78]

I know that forward thinking custom rod builders have been using them for years now. I wasn't really sure how well it would work out but figured it would be worth a try. I finished the rod in October so I haven't really put it through its paces yet. I will know more at the end of the season this year, so far though I am pleased.

WTL, the rod for your Dad sounds pretty cool, you don't see pistol grips too often anymore. I use the drop shot hook keepers too. I have also glued lead bullet weights into the blanks to act as balancers, works pretty well. I'm pretty sure they don't make micro tip-tops with a tube size larger than 6, so keep that in mind when choosing a blank.

[BeaverIslander]

Thats a good looking rod! I'm new to this innovative build. I've never seen one before. Who wouldn't want a lighter rod?

[Jrob78]

Here are a couple of pics of the micros next to a double footed size 8 guide for comparison. A size 8 is still a pretty small guide. Sorry about the crappy pic quality, my photo skills leave a lot to be desired.

[RichZ]

Having built a few rods in this vein a dozen years ago -- not quite micro, but tiny, singlefoot guides (sixes, if memory serves) the length of the rod -- I found that you could get away with one medium small guide much closer to the reel than you might imagine. Especially with slower action rods that carry a lot of their bend into that area of the rod, it really seems to help.

But living in the north and fishing all year, I found them to be useless in the winter. Those tiny guides (and mine weren't quite as small as what you're using) will ice up in the middle of the first retrieve on a 15 or 20 degree day. Other than that, they performed very nicely, and the more weight you can remove from the far end of the rod, the easier it is to get it into physical balance without adding a lot of weight to the butt.

[Jrob78]

Thanks for adding that Rich, that's one thing I forgot to mention because it doesn't apply to me. They do ice up very quickly I've read. My first guide is 23.5" from the end of the reel seat.

I also forgot to add that I use the Forhan locking wrap to make sure the guides stay put. The feet on these guides are really small compared to conventional guides.

[WaffleJaw]

I remember thinking that on micros,that the small diameter combined with the line memory. Would cause the line to hit too much of the guide and the friction would slow down your cast.(that was just my thought)
Now when I went fishing with Joe,and he showed me this rod,and told me he really felt that it casted further,I was skeptical....And I can honestly say that his 7ft rod with mircos was casting several feet further than my 7ft with conventional guides......Micros seem to be the real deal....I was very impressed

[nofearengineer]

Originally Posted by WaffleJaw

I remember thinking that on micros,that the small diameter combined with the line memory. Would cause the line to hit too much of the guide and the friction would slow down your cast.(that was just my thought)
Now when I went fishing with Joe,and he showed me this rod,and told me he really felt that it casted further,I was skeptical....And I can honestly say that his 7ft rod with mircos was casting several feet further than my 7ft with conventional guides......Micros seem to be the real deal....I was very impressed

Waffle, I appreciate the testimonial, but several feet is well within the statistical error when you are considering separate rods, reels, lures, etc.

This small of a difference could be caused by any number of variables between all of the components listed above. I understand it would be problematic to test the guides on the same exact rod....just the process of changing them would take a long time and could induce further changes due to craftsmanship. However, if a large enough sample were taken of the same model of rod, reel, etc, several feet would be a vaild difference.

[screwballl]

I have heard of a big swing towards the micro guides for most baitcaster and spincast reels. For open face spinning reels, they still suggest at least a size 8 for the first guide or the line wears into the first 2-3 guides too easily (not sure how true that is but it makes sense).
I wouldn't mind picking one up for my spincast bass setup but I prefer the spinning reels so wouldn't benefit as much from the micro guide setup.

[WTL]

If micro guides truly do add casting distance, it makes one wonder who was it that originally set the standard bass guide sizes back whenever and why. Is it all just mimicking what others have done?

[Jrob78]

I have heard of a big swing towards the micro guides for most baitcaster and spincast reels. For open face spinning reels, they still suggest at least a size 8 for the first guide or the line wears into the first 2-3 guides too easily (not sure how true that is but it makes sense).
I wouldn't mind picking one up for my spincast bass setup but I prefer the spinning reels so wouldn't benefit as much from the micro guide setup.

Most builders recommend that your first guide on a spinning set up should be half of the diameter of the reel. This helps tame the line coming off the reel, after that you can move down in size quickly.

NFE, I totally understand what you're saying about comparing two different rods casted by two different people throwing two different baits, hardly a scientific comparison. What I do know though is that I am very used to throwing certain baits on 7' similar action rods. I am very accustom to how they cast on certain lines and in certain conditions. Like I said in the first post, I haven't done any side by side comparisons but I can feel and see the difference. I know that doesn't amount to any real proof or mean anything to anyone but me but I believe it to be true from my experience.

[WaffleJaw]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Waffle, I appreciate the testimonial, but several feet is well within the statistical error when you are considering separate rods, reels, lures, etc.

This small of a difference could be caused by any number of variables between all of the components listed above. I understand it would be problematic to test the guides on the same exact rod....just the process of changing them would take a long time and could induce further changes due to craftsmanship. However, if a large enough sample were taken of the same model of rod, reel, etc, several feet would be a vaild difference.

Right,I get that....It was a general impression.

[Backwater Charlie]

Chat-room? I didn't know there was a chatroom, lol.

But, cool rod. I was wondering the same about the rods. I see that e21 has a "micro-guide" version of their Carrot Stix rod, and also Kistler makes a micro-guide rods. Wonder if the micro-guide trend will catch on?

[BeaverIslander]

Originally Posted by WTL

If micro guides truly do add casting distance, it makes one wonder who was it that originally set the standard bass guide sizes back whenever and why. Is it all just mimicking what others have done?

Thats a good question.

[Garry2rs]

Here's something to think about...
Take a look at your reel. Look at the small hole that the line passes through on your level wind.
Now ask yourself why you would need the first line guide on the rod to be so much larger than the one guiding the lane as it's coming off of the reel?
Maybe those big guides go back to a time when the level wind was made out of two pieces of wire...like on an Abu C3.

[nofearengineer]

Originally Posted by Garry2rs

Here's something to think about...
Take a look at your reel. Look at the small hole that the line passes through on your level wind.
Now ask yourself why you would need the first line guide on the rod to be so much larger than the one guiding the lane as it's coming off of the reel?
Maybe those big guides go back to a time when the level wind was made out of two pieces of wire...like on an Abu C3.

Garry, it's a valid point, but you need to factor in location. The levelwind guide can be small because it's an inch from the spool. There's less unpredictablity in where the line is going to go there than in the middle of the rod, 3 feet away. I think if more guides were used, making the distance between them shorter, then smaller guides could definitely be in order. This seems to be somewhat how they are doing it, but maybe not to the degree my instincts tell me would be necessary.

[MississippiBoy]

Originally Posted by Jrob78

I've had a chance to fish the rod about 10 times so far. It is a 7' MH/F built on a MHX blank. There are a few things you have to do differently, build wise, than you would with regular guides. The first guide is quite a bit farther from the reel seat than conventional, also the guides at the tip are closer together so that the line doesn't drop below the blank. Static testing is a must to get the proper layout. My rod has 10 guides plus the tip-top.

Seems kinda counter-intuitive, doesn't it?

[Jrob78]

Seems kinda counter-intuitive, doesn't it?

This is done because the guides are so close to the blank. It's better to have a gradual slope from the reel instead of a hard angle down. The idea is to have the line follow the curve of the blank as smoothly as possible when stress is applied, from the first guide to the last.