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Old 04-08-12, 10:04 PM   #1
skeeter1804
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Default Fluorocarbon

I hear quite regularly people saying for a certain lure or technique that fluorocarbon is a must. I don't understand this comment. I have fished for many years and never had trouble catching fish before this kind of line came out. I fished a tournament last weekend that the bites were extremely soft but I still had no problem detecting them with mono. I have tried different brands of fluorocarbon and different knots but have not found a combination that has a strong enough knot to hold up on hookset. I understand there are certain advantages to it but to me its knot strength is a deal breaker. So does anyone know why this line is a must?
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Old 04-08-12, 10:24 PM   #2
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The line isnt a " must" . If you can fish w/o using it the "dont fix what isnt broke".
Fluorocarbon sinks. It will get cranks deeper faster. Depending on the quality of line its more abrasion resistant than mono and braid. Fluorocarbon also transmits slack line bites where braid does not. It can be hard to manage because of the memory but line conditioner takes care of it.

Some people just use fluorocarbon as a leader with braid because braid is more manageable . I personally really like fluoro for cranking/traps and finese baits. Its just a different tool for you to use . It seems there is no middle ground with it though. Most hate it or love it. Im the latter.
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Old 04-08-12, 10:39 PM   #3
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The light bites may have felt clearer if you'd have used fluorocarbon!

Fluorocarbon is harder. It usually has less stretch than most monos, and is denser.
This combination provides a better tool for transmitting vibrations to your rod and to your hand.
Most is also more abrasion resistant than mono, which makes it preferable for techniques where your line is coming in contract with the cover or structure, jigs and worms for example.

Their are down sides to it though. It is harder to find a manageable Fluoro that also provides the above benefits. You really have to do some research, or put up with trail and error. Sufix, Seaguar AbrazX, and Sunline are some popular lines that seem to have the best of both worlds.

In addition to an on average stiffer line, its knot strength is not as good as some monofilaments. The San Diego Jam, and Palomar, and the only knots I'd tie in it without having to worry about a break-off. The clinch, and improved clinch are some knots that won't work as well with fluoro as they do with mono.

Hope this helps you try fluoro, it's not a magic antidote for not catching fish, but it's a valuable too-of-trade.
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Old 04-08-12, 10:42 PM   #4
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Thanks Kid, If I could find a knot to hold up I would give it a better shot.
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Old 04-09-12, 12:47 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by skeeter1804 View Post
Thanks Kid, If I could find a knot to hold up I would give it a better shot.
Fluoro is a line that you shouldnt be cheap with. Lots of mono and braid ( not all bit the vast majority) have certain traits like noise/fade/fray but you can get by with it. You will get lots of mixed reviews about berkley and xps. Never used xps but berkely 100% was good to me. Seagaur is probably by consensus the best affordable fluorocarbon. I love abrasX. Personally if i were you and wanted to try it just go buy some 10-12lb abrasX with some reel magic or kvd line and lure. You will know if the line is for you w/o going through crap and wishing you had tried it. Its low(er) stretch and less memory than most. Then go from there.
Some people swear by the palomar knot. This is a good knot bit it is not the best for flourocarbon. The san diego jam is bar none the strongest knot ive used. Zero breakoffs with it so far. I didnt have a lot with palomar knots either. Take your time retying and always ALWAYS wet the knot. Taking an extra 10 seconds to ensure a good knot is better than losing a 6$ lure. Most people just dont tie the knots right. Ive had 25 lb carp brought in using 8lb fluoro. Just take your time with it and always retie when the line is nicked.
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Old 04-09-12, 03:18 AM   #6
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You also have to factor in that not all flurocarbon lines are equal in performance, stretch and traits. Some are wirey in nature and as a result might require more care when tying knots. Some are more supple and limp and make knot tying easier.

Also, no line is a must. If mono works for you, why change it? Nothing is set in stone. We aren't a socialist nation yet in which the state runs your life, so take advantage of your freedom and continue to use mono.

With this said, let me say that I also like using mono. However, I can tell you that you will feel those subtle bites a little better with the right fc line for your application.

I have experimented with this with rigs side by side. In one case, 6# mono vs 6# fc line.

Application: Drop shot. Same baits, same distance from the weight and fished in the same spot.

Generally, there were more hits, strikes and takes with fc more often than not.

I am not saying that the mono didn't get hits, but the fc rig did outfish the mono rig.

Don't tell my dad that he has been my guinea pig in these experiments, as has my daughter.

The one thing I will point out is that I didn't have two identical rods but they were close in terms of being decent drop shot rods.

It isn't out of the realm of possibilities that on occasion, mono might out perform fc. I wouldn't be surprised.

I have used with great success Sea Guar Invizx, Cabela House FC (It's practically invizx), and Cajun FC.
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Old 04-09-12, 09:24 AM   #7
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i recently tried invzx & was 50/50. mainly because i birdnested a lot for some reason. it birdnested so bad that i had no choice but to cut. ive never had it this bad with braid (what i use most). would line conditioner help with that?

and since it sinks would it affect the actions of topwater lures like poppers?
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Old 04-09-12, 12:24 PM   #8
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Skeeter 1804 check this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnk9miNAEQ8[/URL] this knot works for leaders anyway.I only use braid and I love it. I think unless you can afford to have 16 rods with different types of lines and test on them and to be able to spend the time to test all of them and become proficient with each……well we’re no pros and most don’t have the money or time…most i say ...... if you do than awesome. Me using one type of line has made me good with that line…..when I try to switch or use someone else’s rod with a different line…..I struggle!
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Old 04-09-12, 01:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by boloson View Post
i recently tried invzx & was 50/50. mainly because i birdnested a lot for some reason. it birdnested so bad that i had no choice but to cut. ive never had it this bad with braid (what i use most). would line conditioner help with that?

and since it sinks would it affect the actions of topwater lures like poppers?
yes, line conditioner will eliminate that backlash for the most part. it's a must with fluoro .

yes, it effects topwater action. mono is more boyant and will keep the bait "walking" correctly. it's not to say you can't use it and be successful but mono is a greater choice of line and will be much better to suit topwater fishing.
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Old 04-09-12, 01:32 PM   #10
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There are rarely any "musts" in fishing. Now, before I begin typing this novel, I'm going to apologize for how long winded it's going to be.

Just like any other line, fluorocarbon has its benefits and its weaknesses. Also like other lines (quite possibly more so than other lines) not all fluorocarbon is created equal.

I bought my first spool of fluorocarbon because it was the hottest thing at the time. And I hated it. After a couple casts, I backlashed. On the next cast, I found out the line a had broken within the spool and my lure went sailing. I took it off and respooled the rest of that spool. I had more bad experiences and as far as I was concerned then, I was done with fluorocarbon. Fast forward to the next year, the hype got to me again. Yes, I bought another spool. This time however, I got a better fluorocarbon and fell in love.

Before I get any farther, I want to dispel some myths about FC line. First, FC does indeed have stretch; but it does not have the elasticity of nylon lines, so it doesn't rebound as much. Second, it's not invisible in water; its refractive index is closer to water's than nylon monofilament lines, but still not the same as water. Finally, not all fluorocarbon is stiff with lots of memory and awful knot strength.

Now, like I said before, not all FCs are created equally. When engineering a product, there are always trade-offs. In the case of FC line, those are usually stiffness/manageability, knot strength, abrasion resistance, stretch, and the susceptibility to damage during a backlash (don't really have a good name for this one... backlashability? ).

Usually, when you find a nice supple manageable fluorocarbon line, you see an increase in knot strength and you find the line is less susceptible to damage when you backlash (still not as good as mono), but it generally has more stretch. The same is true in reverse. If you want a very abrasion resistant or low stretch line, you'll generally need a FC which is quite stiff, ties worse knots, and is more susceptible to breaking within a rat's nest.

That second FC I mentioned above, the one that won me over to FC, was Seaguar InvisX. I've been using it for more than three years, with one broken knot (which was my fault anyways), one gotta-cut-it-out backlash, and very few line breaks. InvisX is just as supple as a good quality nylon mono. I had a friend tell me my straight off the spool InvisX had less memory than his Trilene 100% with weekly doses of KVD L&L. However, this comes at the price of abrasion resistance and stretch. The stretch is about as bad, or worse, than average nylon monos. The abrasion resistance isn't bad to the point of causing problems, but it isn't great. Expect a more breaks when fishing sharp rocks or other abrasive heavy cover.

Now, I've tried a number of fluorocarbons since then and none have matched InvisX for ease of knot tying or manageability. But my quest for a happy medium between those traits and low stretch and good abrasion resistance has led me to Sunline fluorocarbons. After fishing with a spool of Sunline Super FC (blue box), I definitely want to try more of their FC lines (especially Super FC Sniper).

My experience with the Super FC has been great. It is stiff, but definitely manageable, especially with some KVD L&L. It has survived a couple not so little backlashes, and the abrasion resistance and stretch are definitely better than InvisX.

Sorry again for the long winded post, but I've seen so many people turned away from FC because of a cheap/not so good line before they find a truly good one.

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Old 04-09-12, 08:20 PM   #11
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Skeeter just like you and LOTS of other people, I tried FC when it first got hot and was not impressed. Stuck with my mono for years and told myself that it and I were good enough. Just a few weeks ago I spooled some Seaguar Invisx on my weightless senko/trick worm outfit and after 5 trips and 3-4 dozen fish I can honestly say I would endorse it without hesitation. I still use lots of mono and probably always will, but for touchy feely techniques I'd suggest you try it again.
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Old 04-09-12, 09:50 PM   #12
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Is it true that fluorocarbon are only made in 2 places, Japan and Germany? With that said would brands really matter?
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Old 04-10-12, 07:43 AM   #13
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Is it true that fluorocarbon are only made in 2 places, Japan and Germany? With that said would brands really matter?
It used to be yes. Things may have changed in the last couple years though, so I can't say for sure now.

Yes, brands still matter. Even if they are manufactured in the same facilities, the recipes for the resin that makes the line will probably be different. It's like rod blanks, one manufacturer can make blanks for numerous companies using their specs.

For what it's worth, Seaguar claims to be the only company to make their own lines from start to finish in their own facilities. They also claim not to sell their lines or resins to other companies. However, I choose line by how it performs, not who makes it/where it was made. (although Seaguar does perform very well).

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Old 04-10-12, 09:59 AM   #14
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Just an FYI...Vicious fluorocarbon is reportedly 100% made in the USA.
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Old 04-10-12, 08:48 PM   #15
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yes, line conditioner will eliminate that backlash for the most part. it's a must with fluoro .

yes, it effects topwater action. mono is more boyant and will keep the bait "walking" correctly. it's not to say you can't use it and be successful but mono is a greater choice of line and will be much better to suit topwater fishing.
Thanks . I'm actually excited to try fluoro again now since I did like the way it cast. Felt smooth and longer distance when casting. I did try that kvd conditioner on my braid but didn't noticed a difference so will try it on some fluoro once I respool my other reel.
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Old 04-10-12, 09:47 PM   #16
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To say it's a must for any technique is probably a stretch, but there certainly techniques where I think you are at a disadvantage if your not using it and everyone else is. For example I couldn't imagine using mono to fish jigs, it just isn't sensitive enough to allow you to feel light bites or detect what your jig is dragging over as well as flourocarbon. I know there are several opinions on what line is best for crankbaits and I am not saying that anyone is wrong, but for me I can not imagine using mono again for crankbaits. I had a lot of problems with a palomar knot breaking with flourocarbon, especially on techniques that required a hard hookset like jigs. I have tried a lot of different knots and have settled on the San Diego jam knot. It's a pretty easy knot to tie once you get the hang of it, and it's a very strong knot that you can trust. The problem with the knots breaking isn't that the knot strength is bad. It's just that the smallest flaw in tying your knot will greatly weaken the knot and as a result it will break.
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Old 04-10-12, 11:28 PM   #17
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Thanks . I'm actually excited to try fluoro again now since I did like the way it cast. Felt smooth and longer distance when casting. I did try that kvd conditioner on my braid but didn't noticed a difference so will try it on some fluoro once I respool my other reel.
Line conditioner isnt needed for braid. I use it religiously on fluoro and mono but never braid. Some say it will help " break it in" quicker but so will casting it for a couple hours. Some claim ithelps reduce the bleed but braid will bleed at some point regardless. If you see a nick on the line dont be lazy and not retie. Kinks weaken flouro so much and line conditioner really helps eliviate that issue. Spray it when you spool it up too.
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Old 04-11-12, 05:24 AM   #18
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Like many, I hated FC the first couple of go arounds. It took a while before I found a line that had the qualities that I found important. Like many on this site, I like seaguar InvisX, I am currently using Tatsu, and so far I like it as well.
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Old 04-11-12, 12:35 PM   #19
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Is it true that fluorocarbon are only made in 2 places, Japan and Germany? With that said would brands really matter?
McCoy and Stren both Made in U.S.A
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Old 04-11-12, 05:41 PM   #20
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Tried the P-Line fluro it was fine on the baitcaster not so much on spinning reels. seaguar was decent on the spinning reels, but I had a bad spool so I moved on prolly try it again someday. For now I use BPS fluro havent really had a major problems with it on my spinning reels.
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Old 04-21-12, 01:43 PM   #21
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I too am sold on InvisX, but like other have said, Flouro is not for every situation.
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Old 04-21-12, 01:58 PM   #22
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I'm not a fan of flurocarbon, for "normal" conditions I prefer co-poly line. Here at home the water is stained for the better part of the season, so the advantage of flurocarbon is not as significant for me. BUT, with the upcomming trip to Dale Hollow in a couple weeks, I think flurocarbon may be an advantage, so I went and got some BPX XPS flurocarbon and will be filling the spare spools of my spinning reels with it for that trip. The XPS has gotten pretty goood reviews, is reasonably priced, and while I don't hold much stock in "professional endorsements" - gee whiz, KVD uses it so I'll give it a try for this specifice trip. I have 6# & 8# for spinning and a spool of 10# if I need to put it on a worm or crank rod. We'll see how it works, but I am planning on running the line through a cloth with KVD Line & Lure as I spool it up. Darn - seems like KVD has a hook in me, WTF is up wit dat?
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Old 04-21-12, 03:35 PM   #23
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Just an FYI...Vicious fluorocarbon is reportedly 100% made in the USA.
So is McCoy
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Old 04-24-12, 12:35 PM   #24
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Default Hybreds?

I am no expert when it comes to flouro. I primarily use it as leader for superbraids. I have spooled up some hybred (mono w/flouro coating) line (Yo-Zuri and P-Line) from time to time and they seem to have the same handling characteristics as mono, with the lower visibility of flouro. Seems like the best of both worlds...?
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Old 04-25-12, 09:44 PM   #25
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I am no expert when it comes to flouro. I primarily use it as leader for superbraids. I have spooled up some hybred (mono w/flouro coating) line (Yo-Zuri and P-Line) from time to time and they seem to have the same handling characteristics as mono, with the lower visibility of flouro. Seems like the best of both worlds...?
Personally, I don't see any real need for copolymer lines. I'm not saying they're bad, I'm just saying I don't see where they fill a need that either nylon mono or a fluorocarbon line doesn't.

I don't believe you get the "invisibility" of fluorocarbon when using a copolymer. Your car has a clear coat of paint on it, does that mean you can't see the car under it? Adding a coating to a nylon mono doesn't change the refractive index of nylon.

Some are better than others in the sensitivity department, but I find they are generally not as sensitive as a 100% fluorocarbon line.

Most are generally manageable, but there are differences between lines (just like nylon and FC lines). I've had some bad experiences with YZ Hybrid and wouldn't buy it again. It basically came off my reel looking like a slinky. However, P-line Floroclear is very manageable like a good nylon mono.

There is one area they beat out almost any fluorocarbon on the market. Price. Not everyone can spend $18-25 (and up) on one spool of fluorocarbon line, and copolymer lines like Floroclear are a more budget friendly option. And from my experience, I would take Floroclear over most "budget" fluorocarbon lines.

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