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Old 02-15-10, 05:59 PM   #1
Dr G
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Default Bassin in Pike infested waters

Naturally I would rather not use a leader at all but where I’m going, fishing for bass means fishing for Pike since the Pike don’t seem to care what I’m after and they’re after anything. If I’m fishing Senkos then I don’t really care if I lose the bait but if I’m fishing Topwaters, Jerks, and Cranks especially some of the more expensive Japanese ones then I’d rather not be feeding them to the Northern. So I want to get some feedback on leaders, swivels and clips, but mostly leaders. I have heard that if I’m going to use a leader then single strand titanium is the way to go. But what would be the best configuration so as 1) not to compromise the movement of the lure, 2) to protect my line and lure from being eaten and 3) to compromise the lure presentation as little as possible? Again along with Senkos, I’ll be using Mepps Aglias, and a variety of Topwaters, Jerks and Cranks. Anyone with experience dealing with this problem? Any recommendations?
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Old 02-15-10, 06:46 PM   #2
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Well, I have pike here, but nothing like you do up there. There was a fishing show many years ago that was filmed in Canada. The two guys who hosted the show did not use a wire leader. Instead, they attached a very heavy weight mono leader to their line. I believe it was somewhere around 50 pound and I think they used a blood knot to splice the two together. Then they tied on a ball bearing snap swivel. They claimed that was all they needed to do. Some guys here prefer the uni knot for splicing lines. Frankly I'm not sure if the uni had been invented way back then as I was watching this show back in the 70's. But I saw them catch a lot of pike without bite offs.
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Old 02-15-10, 09:06 PM   #3
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I've never used a titanium leader, just old-fashioned steel ones, usually in 5-6" lengths. But I'd probably go longer if I was expecting larger pike. I've never caught a large pike, but I've had an 8# and 7# on topwaters with leaders, the latter coming just last year. I'm also dealing with pickerel, not just pike, and the pickerel are just as adept at cutting line.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't trust a leader of any filament, just metal.

I also feel there's more to the issue than losing a lure; I don't want a fish swimming around with a mouthful of hardware, thanks to me.

Many people feel that a leader screws up a lure's action. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but I've caught lots of fish on leaders and have confidence when using them.
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Old 02-15-10, 10:27 PM   #4
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I haven't tried a wire leader but on some of the lakes up here I think I will next year. Once you get to know some of the lakes you can tell where you want to only throw X-Raps and not Pointers. I have gone to 20# Suffix fluoro leader for pike ice fishing recently so I'll let you know how it holds up. I caught one about 20-22" long so far and he gnawed on it pretty good without a break off.

Sometimes I catch the pike and a lot of times they hit and as soon as you put pressure they are gone. I wonder if those ones eat the bait head first and when you hit them it just shears the line off. I guess it doesn't matter since you can't make them eat tail first.
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Old 02-15-10, 10:30 PM   #5
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Good point, Marty. It's easy to forget that while I'm losing a lure, the fish is probably losing its life.
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Old 02-16-10, 11:46 AM   #6
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I have a major problem with pike biting off my lipless crankbaits on one of the lakes I fish. The pike seem drawn to a 3" Cotton Cordell Super Spot in Rayburn Red, or any bucktails or spoons in that color for that matter. So I use a leader made of either 25 lb. Trilene Big Game or some 17 lb. P-Line CXX that I'm trying to use up, and have had only one fish bite thru the Big Game. I still catch bass with this leader setup, but not quite as many. The leader is about a foot long and I use a split ring to attach the two lines.
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Old 02-16-10, 11:50 AM   #7
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Give 20lb Yo-Zuri Hybrid a try. One of the most abrasion resistant lines I've used.

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Old 02-16-10, 01:01 PM   #8
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ive never had a whole lot of problems fishing with just regular line. ive only lost a few to pike and i was catching 2 to 1 pike to bass on a local lake. i started killing the pike and throwing them on the bank though.
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Old 02-16-10, 01:35 PM   #9
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In SD we used to always use a 6" steel leader that had a swivel at the top where the line ties in. Otherwise go with slightly bigger test line like 15-20 and hope for the best. I have seen northern pike chew through some pretty stout line though.
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Old 02-16-10, 09:36 PM   #10
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I've had 20" pike cut 15# braid like a hot knife through butter. I can't imagine a larger pike not being able to cut much heavier line.

Quote:
Sometimes I catch the pike and a lot of times they hit and as soon as you put pressure they are gone. I wonder if those ones eat the bait head first and when you hit them it just shears the line off. I guess it doesn't matter since you can't make them eat tail first.
Bass tend to hit from behind while pike tend to hit from the side. When they bite off something large like a spinnerbait I think it's because they struck a little farther up from the lure as opposed to having the whole thing in their mouth.
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Old 02-16-10, 10:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty View Post
I've had 20" pike cut 15# braid like a hot knife through butter. I can't imagine a larger pike not being able to cut much heavier line.


Bass tend to hit from behind while pike tend to hit from the side. When they bite off something large like a spinnerbait I think it's because they struck a little farther up from the lure as opposed to having the whole thing in their mouth.
Same for me with a pike a couple years ago except I was using 30# braided line. One second my topwater snake is slithering just out of the pads, the next second I'm standing in the boat dumbfounded holding a rod with nothing but a sheared off line on the other end.
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Old 02-17-10, 12:07 AM   #12
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When surf fishing for bluefish (every bit as toothy as Pike) I used to just use a 50-60lb mono leader. I had to change it out once in a while, as it would get worn, but I never lost one to their teeth.

I can't say if you'd still catch the bass with that heavy a line, but you'd certainly lose less lures. Worth the trade, I'd think.
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Old 02-17-10, 01:59 AM   #13
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I rarely bother to use a leader. On jerkbaits, when fishing pike infested waters, remove all but the rear treble. It changes the action a bit, but not nearly as much as you'd think. And the plug acts as your leader. But you might also just rely a lot more on spinnerbaits. I've caught thousands of pike on spinnerbaits, and have had maybe a dozen bite-offs in 40 some od years of doing it.

Finally, if you MUST use a leader, just tie in a direct one without all the extra hardware.

Tyable wire leader.
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Old 02-17-10, 09:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty View Post
I've had 20" pike cut 15# braid like a hot knife through butter. I can't imagine a larger pike not being able to cut much heavier line.
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Originally Posted by WatterBoy View Post
Same for me with a pike a couple years ago except I was using 30# braided line. One second my topwater snake is slithering just out of the pads, the next second I'm standing in the boat dumbfounded holding a rod with nothing but a sheared off line on the other end.
The reason pike can easily tear through braid of even 30lb test is because to the pike's teeth, diameter is all that matters. 30lb braid is as thin as 8lb mono. So for their sharp teeth, you might as well be fishing with 8lb mono.

A friend of mine had caught musky on spinnerbaits on 12lb test p-line floroclear.

If you decide to go with straight line or just a heavier test leader, make sure you check it often and retie when needed

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Old 02-17-10, 09:52 AM   #15
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ive never had a whole lot of problems fishing with just regular line. ive only lost a few to pike and i was catching 2 to 1 pike to bass on a local lake. i started killing the pike and throwing them on the bank though.
I'm relatively new here, but am guessing that this kind of behavior is not supported by most folks here on Bassfishin.com...

If you are killing pike on public fishing waters in this manner in PA, you are breaking the law - Wanton Waste, Code 3015, Statute 32-1002, Regulation 115-7-4. Also, pike are subject to a 24" size limit of two statewide and are protected from any take between 1 April and 31 May on some specified waters.

As an angler who fishes for many species of freshwater fish including pike, I am disgusted at this kind of behavior. Just because you deem them as an undesirable species does not mean that others don't fish for them. It is also this kind of behavior that gives anglers a bad name in the eyes of non-anglers who see the wasted rotting fish on the bank. Pike are regulated as gamefish - either take them home to eat if they are of legal size or release them as required by law.

I fish for bass in pike-water all of the time and I've found that I need no special equipment - I'm just as happy to catch a pike as I am to catch a bass. Unless you know that you are going to catch a high percentage of pike, I would not alter terminal tackle for bass fishing. Otherwise, I agree with the use of heavier lb-test mono or hybrid leaders - I have tried steel leaders in the past and believe that they do affect and interfere with the action of many baits which in turn, reduces bites.
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Old 02-17-10, 10:43 AM   #16
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In some areas they were stocked in areas where they were not native without much thought to the environment and now they tend to be the primary and dominant fish... There were 2 lakes in SD where we were required to do the same "kill em as you catch em".

Generally we practice catch and release but some of us also catch and release into a frying pan, so we have all sorts here.
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Old 02-17-10, 02:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDaksi View Post
I'm relatively new here, but am guessing that this kind of behavior is not supported by most folks here on Bassfishin.com...

If you are killing pike on public fishing waters in this manner in PA, you are breaking the law - Wanton Waste, Code 3015, Statute 32-1002, Regulation 115-7-4. Also, pike are subject to a 24" size limit of two statewide and are protected from any take between 1 April and 31 May on some specified waters.

As an angler who fishes for many species of freshwater fish including pike, I am disgusted at this kind of behavior. Just because you deem them as an undesirable species does not mean that others don't fish for them. It is also this kind of behavior that gives anglers a bad name in the eyes of non-anglers who see the wasted rotting fish on the bank. Pike are regulated as gamefish - either take them home to eat if they are of legal size or release them as required by law.

I fish for bass in pike-water all of the time and I've found that I need no special equipment - I'm just as happy to catch a pike as I am to catch a bass. Unless you know that you are going to catch a high percentage of pike, I would not alter terminal tackle for bass fishing. Otherwise, I agree with the use of heavier lb-test mono or hybrid leaders - I have tried steel leaders in the past and believe that they do affect and interfere with the action of many baits which in turn, reduces bites.
+1.
I don't like this either, but I've only seen it with rough fish. Truth is, it probably doesn't even make a difference, a few fish removed from the water here and there. It just stinks up your fishing hole. People do it near the Mississippi River walking trails in town and it's always gotten on my nerves; people thinking they're helping by tossing carp on the bank to rot in the sun for 3 weeks.
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Old 02-17-10, 04:10 PM   #18
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I don't throw any fish on the bank either. Around my neck of the woods, alot of people tend to do that with Dogfish (Bluefin), but I don't even do it with them.
I plan on doing some big Pike fishing this year, so I'm interested in this thread for sure.
Never have problems with 2' Pike and below, but when I go after the big ones, I'll be using some type of leader.
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Old 02-17-10, 06:04 PM   #19
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It's great to get your opinions based as they are on real experience. It's clear that, once again, there is no right answer. Damn! I'm thinking what I'll do is try a variety of tactics and see what works. I'll take some titanium leaders and maybe make up a few fluorocarbon ones as well. That doesn't mean I have to use them but if it gets nasty I'll have a couple of options to fall back on and see what works for me.
I can't tell you all what a terrific board this is. You are all very generous with your experience. I've learned an incredible amount in the last 4 months and I do appreciate it.
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Old 02-17-10, 07:02 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by BigBassin144 View Post
The reason pike can easily tear through braid of even 30lb test is because to the pike's teeth, diameter is all that matters. 30lb braid is as thin as 8lb mono. So for their sharp teeth, you might as well be fishing with 8lb mono.

A friend of mine had caught musky on spinnerbaits on 12lb test p-line floroclear.

If you decide to go with straight line or just a heavier test leader, make sure you check it often and retie when needed

BB
Really? All that matters is diameter of what they're trying to bite through? I would have thought 30# braid would be at least somewhat tougher for them to chomp through than 8# mono even though they have the same diameter. I don't have any reason not to believe you, but it seems strange that there wouldn't at least be some difference. What if I was using the equivalent diameter of a steel leader?
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Old 02-17-10, 11:58 PM   #21
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I think it is just how sharp their teeth are with little regard to line type. I've had them cut braid off just as fast as a knife would. It really depends where they are hooked.

The big ones sure are fun to catch, the hammer handle, slime darts, etc. aren't too much fun especially when they bite you off a lot.
Here's a shining example of a giant:

That's a 4" worm. These are not fun to catch.
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Old 02-17-10, 11:59 PM   #22
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Really? All that matters is diameter of what they're trying to bite through? I would have thought 30# braid would be at least somewhat tougher for them to chomp through than 8# mono even though they have the same diameter. I don't have any reason not to believe you, but it seems strange that there wouldn't at least be some difference. What if I was using the equivalent diameter of a steel leader?
As far I've heard there isn't much difference between mono and braid of similar diameter. Steel however is a different story. I don't really know diameters of steel leader, but I'd assume you'd be fine with one the diameter of 8lb mono.

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Old 02-18-10, 09:57 AM   #23
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As far I've heard there isn't much difference between mono and braid of similar diameter. Steel however is a different story. I don't really know diameters of steel leader, but I'd assume you'd be fine with one the diameter of 8lb mono.
20 lb test titanium leader wire is around .012" in diameter, 30 lb around .014" and so on on up. 8 lb. mono by comparison is around .011" But whereas a pike would go through 8 lb mono like ****e through a goose only trophy pike or musky are likely to bite through 20 lb titanium leader.
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Old 02-18-10, 02:56 PM   #24
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20 lb test titanium leader wire is around .012" in diameter, 30 lb around .014" and so on on up. 8 lb. mono by comparison is around .011" But whereas a pike would go through 8 lb mono like ****e through a goose only trophy pike or musky are likely to bite through 20 lb titanium leader.

Why the fixation with titanium leader? I can promise you a braided steel leader is far stronger, more resistant to abrasion, and rust in freshwater isn't mush of an issue.

It's a well-known phenomenon in the technical community that Titanium is used as a selling point to customers, who just naturally assume it's a superior material. It is less dense that steel, doesn't work harden, and doesn't rust. That's about all it has going for it. On the bad side, it's hellaciously expensive.
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Old 02-18-10, 03:24 PM   #25
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Why the fixation with titanium leader? I can promise you a braided steel leader is far stronger, more resistant to abrasion, and rust in freshwater isn't mush of an issue.

It's a well-known phenomenon in the technical community that Titanium is used as a selling point to customers, who just naturally assume it's a superior material. It is less dense that steel, doesn't work harden, and doesn't rust. That's about all it has going for it. On the bad side, it's hellaciously expensive.
Well from what I read, so not from experience, titanium is smaller in diameter for equal strength, doesn't kink nearly as badly as steel, is more supple and flexible, can be knotted and casts better. As for expense, I suppose it's all relative but when I consider how much I spend on fishing tackle to worry about a buck here or there on leaders is for me, anyway, a bit laughable. For me, I would choose titanium over steel based on the nature of the respective materials. I mean at least its an apples to apples comparison. However the idea of using fluorocarbon leader is very appealing and I certainly want to try that out. I just wonder how stiff 80 lb fluoro will be and what it will be like to cast on a medium spinning rig. My hope, of course, is that I won't have to put a leader on at all. Its not as though I'm actually fishing for Pike. I figure I can test the waters in any particular location, see what's hitting and configure my line accordingly. I'm just trying to figure out what my options are.
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