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Old 08-29-12, 08:29 PM   #1
Tavery5
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Default Relationship of Max Drag to Gear Ratio

Been following an interesting thread on another site, the question is, "How does gear ratio affect max drag?"

I thought I knew where I stood on this, but there have been some good posts that have made me re-think.

Any thoughts?
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Old 08-29-12, 08:38 PM   #2
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well i was HOPING to get an answer taves. this IS interesting to say the least. i'll be watching this for sho!
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Old 08-29-12, 09:07 PM   #3
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It kind of makes my head hurt. I would have said that gear ratio and max drag are independent of one another but after reading all that, it definitely makes sense.
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Old 08-29-12, 09:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrob78 View Post
It kind of makes my head hurt. I would have said that gear ratio and max drag are independent of one another but after reading all that, it definitely makes sense.
Exactly where I was at, I would have also said independent of one another. After reading some of the information shared by others, it made me re-think.
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Old 08-30-12, 09:09 AM   #5
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Was there a link?
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Old 08-30-12, 10:22 AM   #6
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There's not a direct relationship but I can see how a larger main gear would have more avaialble mass for a drag washer but it is rarely all used. You then have washer stacks that are use in certain designs. Max drag is meaningless in a bass reel anyway. Basic drag setting is 1/3 of line weight which is about 7# for 20# line. Locking a drag down puts unnecessary strain on the whole setup.
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Old 08-30-12, 07:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVT Mike View Post
There's not a direct relationship but I can see how a larger main gear would have more avaialble mass for a drag washer but it is rarely all used. You then have washer stacks that are use in certain designs. Max drag is meaningless in a bass reel anyway. Basic drag setting is 1/3 of line weight which is about 7# for 20# line. Locking a drag down puts unnecessary strain on the whole setup.
I thought along the same lines, that was until someone brought up the point that the spool is splined to the pinion, the pinion is in direct contact with the main. What causes the drag to slip is the fact that the pinion is applying a force to the main and overcoming the pressure of the drag discs on the inner part of the main gear. The interesting part is that there is a mechanical advantage for the higher ratio reels, making it slightly easier to overcome that pressure. Therefore gear ratio affecting max drag.

What ya think?
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Old 08-30-12, 08:40 PM   #8
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then tighten it up some...i dont see the issue
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Old 08-30-12, 09:15 PM   #9
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then tighten it up some...i dont see the issue

There is no issue, it is a discussion about weather or not gear ratio can affect the maximum amount of drag that a reel can produce.

Most reels produce drag in excess of what would commonly be needed for bass fishing.
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Old 08-30-12, 09:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaffleJaw View Post
Was there a link?
I'll try to link it for you, if not it is an ongoing discussion on TT.

http://www.tackletour.net/TTForums/v...p?f=47&t=44231
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Old 08-30-12, 10:48 PM   #11
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Reading all the TT posts on the subject was entertaining, but it made my head hurt. LOL Whats really funny about this is how many folks have logged in thier opinions as absolute fact without them having an idea what they were talking about. It's fine for someone to have a guess as to how something might work, but if you are going to present that as fact, then you maybe ought to have at least seen all of the components and have some knowledge of what they do. It was however enlightening to the fact that most folks have no idea what happens inside of a reel.
Tony and i had a long discusion about this tonight. It's great to have someone with an equal interest in mechanical things and some common sense to boot. When we have these discusions we can usually come to decently thought out results.

I have to say, I have never looked at the possibility of gear ration impacting max drag, but it's clear as day that it does. Not only that, but diameter of spool and amount of line on the spool also impact the equation. The reason is that when a drag system is letting line out, everything in the reel is working backwards. the line being pulled out is the start of the equation. The fish applies the force. the force travels through the line and pulls on the top of the spool. the OD of the line on the spool transfers torque to the spool shaft. Thats the first variable. The bigger the OD the more torque applied. The spool shaft turns a pinion gear. When the reel is going backwards, the gear ratio is turning backwards. That means it no longer is 6.4:1 or 7.1:1, it becomes a 1:6.4 or a 1:7.1 Now, the pinion gear is turning the main gear instead of the main gear turning the pinion gear. The main gear on a reel is not locked to or keyed to the drive shaft. It has a round hole in it and slides freely. The pressure between the metal plates and drag washers is what turns the main gear while reeling. When the the drag is working, the pinion gear, which is linked to the spool, turns the main gear which in turn slips freely on the driveshaft and the amount of presure between the surfaces controls how freely it slips. The reason the handle dosen't turm backwards is that the drivshaft is prvented from turning backwards by the anti reverse clutch. If everything else is the same, the reel that can exert more torque on the main gear will have less max drag because it can make the drag slip easier. Therefore, the 7.1:1 reel will have less max drag than a 6.4:1 reel would have when every other part is the same. We see that with revos, because they have identical drag washers in both ratios. Some reels have bigger or smaller drag washers in different ratio reels, so that also affects it.

All of this means nothing to most of you. It simply answers a question as to why the revo has different max drags for different ratio reels when everything else is the same about them.

Last edited by pro reel; 08-30-12 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 08-31-12, 07:51 AM   #12
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ok kevin....now put this in ENGLISH bud.lol! my head is POUNDING.

in other words, do i put less drag on for heavier line or more? likewise, on lighter line?

or do i use less drag with said line in a 7:1.1 reel versuses a 5:2.1? am i making sense?haha!

i have found that i have to use MORE pressure on my drag when using a 5:2.1 versuses a 6:2.1 reel when i have the same test line. does this help? and am i hurting my reel doing this?
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Old 08-31-12, 08:53 AM   #13
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The discussion was about MAX drag that can be squeezed out of a reel. No need to alter adjustments based on reel ratio. You can use a spring scale or dead weight to adjust to the poundage you want based on line weight. After doing this a few times you get a feel fot it and can go from there. I agree with Kevin's points in as far as the engineering and physics involved are concerned. The point about the role of the main and pinion gears being reversed is a good one. In application the key is still "all else being equal" which is seldom the case. I also maintain that max drag is about as important as bearing count when choosing a reel (not very).
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Old 08-31-12, 11:09 AM   #14
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Let me stress once more, the last sentence in my post. All of the discusion about max drag and ratio mean nothing in real world aplications other than to answer a question about why the listed max drag on a revo 6.4:1 reel would be less than the listed max drag on a revo with 7.1:1 ratio. It's a very interesting discusion for folks who are intrigued by mechanical things. Being a reel tech, I have been very interested in how drag systems work and ways to improve them or make them work more consitent. There are a lot of misconceptions about drag systems. One problem with trying to figure them out is that we can't watch them work to see what parts actually move when the drag is slipping and if some move all the time or just some of the time. It seems that there are a lot of factors the mechanical engineers have to consider when desinging a drag system and picking the materials to use. Reel ratio is part of that eqaution, but just a small part.
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Old 08-31-12, 06:30 PM   #15
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I am in total agreement with Kevin, this conversation has almost no real world implications, and will make absolutely no difference in your day to day fishing. The topic was only meant to stimulate thinking and conversation, and maybe develop a better understanding of how a drag system operates and the variables that affect it.
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Old 09-01-12, 02:06 AM   #16
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ooooohhhhhh...ok. now i get it. lol!
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