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Old 08-17-11, 06:07 PM   #51
keithdog
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LMAO, this is the best reply to this post yet. haha
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Old 08-17-11, 06:20 PM   #52
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ok, i don't liek talking polotics very much because of things like this.

BUT........EVERYONE has hit the nail ont he head so to speak. AND i am inclined ot agree with almost everything billy said. ESPECIALLY aobut US AMERICANS MAKING OUR OWN COMSUMER ITEMS.
it is so cost effective for a comapny to have the things we all buy on a REGULAR basis made in another country because WE demand more pay. NOT THAT THAT IS WRONG for us to want the money. it's jsut that we are backrupting OURSELVES. i hope oyu all understand what i am saying here. because i can't put into words properly what i mean by this. ok?

i have worked in steel mills that were shut down because of polution, paper mills because of unions and corp fighting each other to see who will fall first. union wants to break the company, company wants to break the union. and make more money in profits to boot.

if we did what billy is saying, we can dig ourselves out of this he77 hole we dug ourselves in. our electied officials don't give a hoot-n-holler about us for real. they just want to make more money and have more power. we all know that.


we have ALL the naturel resources here in our own contry to sustains uf for more years than ANY of our great-great-great-great (etc) grandchildren can use. coal, water, wind oil......we ahve it all here. we have got the expertise to use these PROPERLY with out all the polution too. while i ain't and engineer, i have been around enough of these guys to know that it CAN be done. it may cost us some dough, but it can be done.
that is where the problem lies i think. we are NOT willing to pay the price for this. we, the american people are now LAZY. well, a lot of us are.

anyway, i ain't no expert.
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Old 08-17-11, 07:39 PM   #53
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i just have one other thing to say to everyone who posted on this. when was the last time you call,wrote or e mail you congressman or senator and told him how you feel. complaining on the bass forums doesn't mean anything unless you do something about it. that is your right .
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Old 08-17-11, 07:54 PM   #54
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WTL, you make very good points.
we need to make things in THIS country, not Viet Nam, not China or some other third world labor camp. Business should be offered incentives to re-open factories and other material producing facilities in the US and hire American workers to staff them. Perhaps a little less profit and a little more pride in "Made on the U.S.A" emblem.
As far as govt. getting out of businesses way--- Acid rain and Love Canal come right to mind.
Plain old simple greed got us into this mess and pandering to that greed does nothing to alleviate the problem. Politicians on both sides of the aisle are guilty of this and it is truly sickening.
I don't doubt that acid rain exists, I have seen examples of concrete having trouble, but I tend to doubt it will peel paint. Its not like its a 2 ph rain were talking here. You probably got what is a pretty common stock excuse from a painter.

But thats small beans, on to the meat and potatoes of your post....

Offering incentives, ie money, to companies that relocate to the United States is the opposite of what we should be doing. Its not that we are a good place to do business, and we just gotta sweeten the deal - its that we have become a poor place to do business, and we have to fix that.

I just wrote and deleted about 5 paragraphs of stuff about minimum wage laws, corporate taxes, numerous financial regulations constantly changing, and all these other things that are making it harder to keep jobs in American and create new ones, but you don't strike me as the type to get down in the weeds, and neither am I. Maybe thats more the problem then anything else, we have made things...not simple. Look at all the markets that have failed.
Healthcare......not simple
Financial services.......not simple
Housing market.......not simple
Operating a car company.......not simple

Its no longer about what you produce, and how much is it worth. Now it is about 10,000 pages of regulations, and neither you, the lawyers or the politicians know exactly whats in those 10,000 pages so what are you gonna do? How can you know where to invest money (which is what creates jobs, private investment). You can't know. Its not knowable. Its not simple.

And the fact that everything is obscured by red tape scares the **** out of anyone wanting to do business. It is this huge disincentive to spend money on things that create real value. That is our problem.


One more thing, just because it hasn't been in the news. Do you know what the federal reserve is? It is a privately owned system of US banks in charge of the dollar and also charged with trying to keep the economy from falling apart. They are actually the most powerful men in America, stronger than Obama even. They try to balance out economic cycles by either restricting or giving access to credit during different economic periods.

Well, they havent been very effective since 1913 at staving off recessions, depressions, and fixing them. But whats worse is they operate in almost total secrecy. Recently, however, congress, for the first time was able to audit their finances.

During the recession, they gave 16 trillion dollars to US and foreign banks. Do you know how much 16 trillion is? I want to write down the number, but I'm even confused by how many zeroes to use. This was money that was given to banks, some not even American, under the guise that it would keep us out of recession. And they didn't have it to give. They made it. They created more money out of thin air. 16 trillion dollars. Know what that does? It makes all the other money on earth worth 16 trillion less. It also floods the markets with money that was before, nonexistant, inflating the markets higher than they otherwise would be. It covers up underperforming economic performance, and it creates inflation. Gas prices. Food. Clothes. Cars, all cost more. Debts are lessened.

16 trillion dollars. Do you know what that does to an economy? And economies depends on expectations. Contracts. Guarantees. People have plans. Then 16 trillion dollars later, all is changed. The world is different. So why invest money ever? Its a drop in the bucket, that will be overturned by the onslaught of monetary policy upon our economy by those pretending to do good. Thats a problem.

But don't take my word for it. Research the subject.
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Old 08-17-11, 08:50 PM   #55
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I don't doubt that acid rain exists, I have seen examples of concrete having trouble, but I tend to doubt it will peel paint. Its not like its a 2 ph rain were talking here. You probably got what is a pretty common stock excuse from a painter.

But thats small beans, on to the meat and potatoes of your post....

Offering incentives, ie money, to companies that relocate to the United States is the opposite of what we should be doing. Its not that we are a good place to do business, and we just gotta sweeten the deal - its that we have become a poor place to do business, and we have to fix that.

I just wrote and deleted about 5 paragraphs of stuff about minimum wage laws, corporate taxes, numerous financial regulations constantly changing, and all these other things that are making it harder to keep jobs in American and create new ones, but you don't strike me as the type to get down in the weeds, and neither am I. Maybe thats more the problem then anything else, we have made things...not simple. Look at all the markets that have failed.
Healthcare......not simple
Financial services.......not simple
Housing market.......not simple
Operating a car company.......not simple

Its no longer about what you produce, and how much is it worth. Now it is about 10,000 pages of regulations, and neither you, the lawyers or the politicians know exactly whats in those 10,000 pages so what are you gonna do? How can you know where to invest money (which is what creates jobs, private investment). You can't know. Its not knowable. Its not simple.

And the fact that everything is obscured by red tape scares the **** out of anyone wanting to do business. It is this huge disincentive to spend money on things that create real value. That is our problem.


One more thing, just because it hasn't been in the news. Do you know what the federal reserve is? It is a privately owned system of US banks in charge of the dollar and also charged with trying to keep the economy from falling apart. They are actually the most powerful men in America, stronger than Obama even. They try to balance out economic cycles by either restricting or giving access to credit during different economic periods.

Well, they havent been very effective since 1913 at staving off recessions, depressions, and fixing them. But whats worse is they operate in almost total secrecy. Recently, however, congress, for the first time was able to audit their finances.

During the recession, they gave 16 trillion dollars to US and foreign banks. Do you know how much 16 trillion is? I want to write down the number, but I'm even confused by how many zeroes to use. This was money that was given to banks, some not even American, under the guise that it would keep us out of recession. And they didn't have it to give. They made it. They created more money out of thin air. 16 trillion dollars. Know what that does? It makes all the other money on earth worth 16 trillion less. It also floods the markets with money that was before, nonexistant, inflating the markets higher than they otherwise would be. It covers up underperforming economic performance, and it creates inflation. Gas prices. Food. Clothes. Cars, all cost more. Debts are lessened.

16 trillion dollars. Do you know what that does to an economy? And economies depends on expectations. Contracts. Guarantees. People have plans. Then 16 trillion dollars later, all is changed. The world is different. So why invest money ever? Its a drop in the bucket, that will be overturned by the onslaught of monetary policy upon our economy by those pretending to do good. Thats a problem.

But don't take my word for it. Research the subject.
Dangit Billy. Ever thought of running for office? I think you'd probably get my vote.
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Old 08-17-11, 08:59 PM   #56
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Dangit Billy. Ever thought of running for office? I think you'd probably get my vote.
No chance...the only position Billy would want is Secretary of the Interior, so he could scout out good fishing spots. Unfortunately, that position is by presidential appointment.

Sooooo....because I am such a good guy, if you will elect me President, I will gladly give him the nod.
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Old 08-17-11, 09:18 PM   #57
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i will say one thing billy if i ever do need a lawyer i would like your address.
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Old 08-17-11, 10:20 PM   #58
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Is it ok to come out now? Is the sandbox all clear? Oh, and Bryce, I'm not sending anything in the way of tax to you as you don't represent me, so no taxation without representation, seems I read that somewhere. But I'll buy you lunch at the Hollow, after you give me some pointers on TROLLING, although I think I do ok!
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Old 08-17-11, 10:35 PM   #59
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Is it ok to come out now? Is the sandbox all clear? Oh, and Bryce, I'm not sending anything in the way of tax to you as you don't represent me, so no taxation without representation, seems I read that somewhere. But I'll buy you lunch at the Hollow, after you give me some pointers on TROLLING, although I think I do ok!
Touche!!

Frankly, if we were trolling at Dale, we'd be cooking ranbow trout for lunch.
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Old 08-18-11, 01:01 PM   #60
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Good morning, This morning I was looking out of the bedroom window at the mountains and the hummingbirds feeding outside the window and was thinking,
That after all these years things have worked out pretty darn good for me and mine. NFE and everyone I apologize for being childish and resorting to schoolyard language. Roscoe, my dog has more of a chance to quit chasing the neighbor's cat than either one of us changing our minds. Yesterday, after the heated words, I went out to the boat and fixed some long neglected wiring, so feel free to get me upset anytime. And I am going to try to quit getting involved in conversations on this site that involve anything political or religious. Going to try to stick to stuff that is fun or funny or any help that I may be able to give. See you guys on another thread.
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Old 08-18-11, 06:18 PM   #61
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top, it's all good man. no harm,no foul ok? politics and religion are 2 subjects that is ALWAYS otuchy. i am not as book learned as bryce, billy and others on here. but EVERYONE is right, and eveyone is wrong. it's called LIFE and we all have to deal with it. lol.

now billy, oyu make some VERY good points. and i agree with oyu on almost each and every one of them.
got a question for everyone here discussing this. oyu talked about the government "making" 16 trillion dollars out of thin air. i know this happens, but my question is this. if we were on the gold, silver or some sort of precious metel standard instead of a "promisary note". would this still happen? correct me if i am wrong ok? but i don't think we are on ANY type of standard anymore. am i right?
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Old 08-18-11, 11:37 PM   #62
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Monday Aug. 11th was the 40th anniversary of the ABANDONMENT of the "gold standard" in the USA. Gold at that time was trading at $38 per ounce. Last week it was over $1700 per ounce. Imagine if you had bought just a few POUNDS of gold in 1971.
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Old 08-18-11, 11:41 PM   #63
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Boy, I sure wish I had. My grandfather had the "in" when the Poleroid camera company was started. He had the chance to get in on the ground floor and invest in the company. He chose not to saying it was just going to be a fad.
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Old 08-19-11, 10:48 AM   #64
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got a question for everyone here discussing this. oyu talked about the government "making" 16 trillion dollars out of thin air. i know this happens, but my question is this. if we were on the gold, silver or some sort of precious metel standard instead of a "promisary note". would this still happen? correct me if i am wrong ok? but i don't think we are on ANY type of standard anymore. am i right?

Not unless they figure out how to make gold in a lab.

We are not on any standard. The federal reserve is free to change the money supply however they wish.

Another thing. Say a country was in debt. Say they owed trillions of dollars. Say they were not on any standard. How do they pay this debt?

One way is to buckle down, and make government more austere.

Another is to print money everytime you need it, for anything, cause afterall if you are making the value of money go down, if 1 dollar is now worth .25 of what it used to be worth, then that debt which was denominated in dollars is now .25 of what it used to be as well.

Does this monetary tool sound dangerous to you? See why Ben Bernake is the most powerful man on earth?
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Old 08-19-11, 11:04 AM   #65
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It's a touchy subject.

Some would say there isn't enough gold (or any other precious material) to serve as the standard to back our currency with. That's not really true, unless the price of gold were fixed.

So we're left with two options...either our currency inflates with no gold standard, or gold hyper inflates to keep our currency value stable.

Kind of odd that both are happening right now. That should tell you something big is about to happen, and I'm worried.

I would not advocate investing in gold. If it all hits the fan, you can't eat gold. It will just make you a target for bigger fish.

Wow...I don't like where this post is going....I'm home sick so I'm already depressed....ugh....
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Old 08-19-11, 11:23 AM   #66
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It's a touchy subject.

Some would say there isn't enough gold (or any other precious material) to serve as the standard to back our currency with. That's not really true, unless the price of gold were fixed.
Thats an interesting idea, I havent thought much about that.

I'm not into the idea of buying gold either. Its capable of becoming a shortterm bubble like everything else. Over time its going up though. I just don't see what else can happen.

The key, for all these posts and all these problems is "accountability". So I wont try and offer answers, cause I don't really have too much, other than that one word. And if we are accountable when it comes to monetary policy, we are going to back the dollar with something, possibly a basket of something, to limit the possibility of the fed destroying the life savings of so many.

When you have accountability, when you have consistency in law, when you have some degree of transparency, you can't really keep the American economy down. Thats my answer. Economics is not voodoo.
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Old 08-19-11, 09:03 PM   #67
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i didn't think we were on any standard. and i am in agreement woth oyu both bryce and billy. it is gonna be bumpy here real soon i think. better learn how to grow oyur own food folks. we got our freezers FULL, neighbor has plenty of beef grazing too. one MORE good thing about being out in the country. got veggies, beef and got boat for fish. now if i can only learn how to catch dem fishies, lol.
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