Sun Burn

[zman]

Of course if you want to take it to the ultimate extent of sun protection you could always dress like this guy...

[Infisherman1]

thats Lawrence of Arabia... if I'm not mistaken?

[zman]

Hula, man you are quick - that was like 2 minutes.

Yep, T.E. Lawrence - the real one, not Peter O'Toole.

[Infisherman1]

It was a god movie though. Ever seen, or read Dr. Zhivago? The music in it and Lawrence of Arabia are almost exactly alike. I think they had the same music producer.

[Infisherman1]

[quote author=WTL link=board=Tourneys;num=1113263078;start=25#27 date=04/17/05 at 21:51:18]Hula, man you are quick - that was like 2 minutes.

Yep, T.E. Lawrence - the real one, not Peter O'Toole. Â*[/quote]


Well honestly, how many British people did you see going around in arab garb in that period of history?

[zman]

Well, Zhivago's theme is played with a belalaika, whereas I think Lawrence's theme is a full orchestra. Â*

But they were both directed by David Lean and starred Omar Sharrief and I think Alec Guiness. Â*

If you liked both these movies check out Bridge over the River Kwai. It immediatly preceded Lawrence and was just as good, also directed by Lean and starring Alec Guiness.

[Infisherman1]

Dr. Zhivago was an ok movie. I don't like how it made out the book to be a love story which it wasn't.

[zman]

Yea Zhivago wasn't quite as good as the other 2, I always had trouble identifying with the protagonist. But being a poli-sci major the political scene of the movie is facsinating. "The personal life is dead in Russia".

[Infisherman1]

well the main reason I decide to read Dr. Zhivago was because it took place at such an interesting time in Russian history. Â*It was a case in which the monarchial government's reform couldn't keep up with the change going on throughout the country. Â* Although, the Romanov dynasty was pretty much doomed to fall after the emancipation of the Serfs in 1861.

[Bassin_Dude]

that has to be one of the most sophisticated conversations i have seen on this board. see what a sun burn thread can turn into ;D i love ''Bridge over the River Kwai'' great movie.

[zman]

Well, the Romanov dynasty was doomed to failure because the political system was fast becoming outdated. The main catalyst however, was not the emancipation of the serfs, but rather the first world war coupled with an active, poverty stricken proletariat. Take away either WWI or the poverty of the lower social classes or the wealth of the Czar and I don't think you get a revolution.

The emancipation of the serfs did provide a context of recent fuedalism from which the Russian marxists tried to use as a springboard, but what I don't understand about Lenin or Stalin was there was no period of capitalism between the fuedal period and the attempted marxist period. If you read Marx, he states that basically there is a historical pregression from feudalism to capitalism (and industrtialization) to socialism. Well, it was what, the 30s or 40s at least before Russia was really industrialized. I mean, Trotsky said you could jump bougious capitalism, not Lenin, and they had him killed.

[Infisherman1]

I must say, Bridge over the River Kwai was quite a good movie. Â*I had a hard time seeing where Alec Guiness's character came from though. Â*I'm sure a real British officer would love to see the bridge blown up, unlike his character in the movie.

[Infisherman1]

I think the Emancipation of the serfs was the event that got things started though. Typically when you are keeping people in a poor social and economic conditions and allowing no advancements, there won't be as much revolt, because they haven't had a taste of freedom. After the Emancipaiton of the serfs, russia was able to urbanize somewhat. With their new freedom Russians in the poor conditions in the cities saw that there should be revolution. Only AFTER 1861 did you see the numbers of anarchists and various intellectual groups(intellegentsia) in the cities rise. These same groups were the ones responsible for the Russian Revolution of 1905, the prelude to the Bolshevik Revolution.
As a sidenote, Marxist communism doesn't make any sense. He calls for there to be a strong large middle class to be present before there is revolt, but if there is a large middle class, why would they want to revolt?

[fredhatch]

Yah thats all fine and good. But if the punk rock invasion never happened, we would all be listening to Lawrence Welk. 8)

[zman]

I'm very impressed Hula.

I just want to make one note and pose one question however - first there is a difference between revolution in the marxist sense and a revolution in the general sense. A general revolution can be anything that by definition is huge change in things, IE industrial, French, American, Reagan whatever revolution.


Sure revolution of some form in Russia was coming, but why socialism?

Revolution in the marxist sense is rare. I ask you sir a question which has fascinated political scientists for the past century, why no socialism in the US? You cite the emancipation of the serfs as a critical moment in Russian history that lead to their revolution, but only 4 years after that event was the emancipation of negro slaves in America. It should also be noted that America HAD passed through the industrial and capitalist phases and that Marx believed it would be among the first to become socialist because America was the most advanced nation on earth. Therefore, what was different in America? Why has there never been a large scale socialist or workers movement?

(PS, there are numerous books dealing with this, beginning with Toqueville and proceeding from there)

[fredhatch]

Ill hand it to you two, Ive been out of school way to long. In the past I could at least make up some BS to debate with, can't even do that anymore. Have seen all the movies that were discussed, they are classics. 8)

[Rob Mak]

wow i think those were the biggest words i have ever seen on this board. deep wtl ,pooper. have read all 3 -very long very boring-books and seen all 3 movies i like the movies better even if they were all in black/white.

hose holder
no not swing -yuk yuk yuk!!!


them boys need to go fishing a tad more those histroy/english lit. classes are kicking some one's butt.


they try very hard to get socialist party into america. round the 1900's. might want to check out the chicago slaughter house revolt . which happened round this time.-i can't remember the book title that really goes deep in to this subject.



hose holder
i also have been out of school a long time.


zooker