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Old 10-21-12, 09:24 AM   #1
joedog
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Default Ok, a tied on leader question

I and a fair amount of the rest of you tie on floro leaders.

So do you just tie a Floro leader when using braid or are there other techniques that maybe you need/want a lighter or heavier main line than leader line?
I tie leaders on braid but I also need/use tie-able wire(pike) on Floro, Mono, braid.

Next as most know I'm lazy.
So I have a tendency to tie on like 3 foot leaders in anticipation of lure switching and reties. Tying a wire to main line isn't always the best done in field.
I do use a speed clip when it's suited but there are numerous presentations that actually work better with a straight tie on.

So the question,
How bad is it for that TIP guide having a knot running through it time after time after time. Then when bringing in a fish that same knot comes back with extreme pressure as knot slides through guides.
I do the old tissue through the guide trick and haven't noticed any 'damage' yet.

Finally do the new'er' macro guides make this worse or better?

Oh and the 'don't use a leader ever' option really won't work with pike stealing Ten Dollar Lures.

So what what do you folks think.
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Old 10-21-12, 09:48 AM   #2
OkobojiEagle
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I begin the day or evening of fishing with a ~6' fluoro leader which allows for adequate changing of jig head weights and lure sampling.

Stainless steel insert tip guides will catch leader/mainline knots both on the cast and retrieve but I've never had that problem with a ceramic guide insert.

I've settled on the Alberto knot as my knot of choice for tying leaders to mainline. It seems to be the smallest knot I've found and 10lb fluoro leader/ 10lb braid mainline knots cast through my micro guides without problems.

oe
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Old 10-21-12, 02:49 PM   #3
bassboogieman
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As for me, I think the braid w/leader issue applies specifically to finesse or slow presentation lures/baits. So for me that means I use braid w/leader primarially on spinning gear, almost never with baitcasters, and I don't often use a leader in excess of 3'. With that length the knot rarely reaches the tip (when hauling in a fish) as I need enough line out to keep the rod tip in the air while lipping a fish. As I'm using this line combo mostly with finesse presentations, I can also cast fine leaving the leader off the rod. My knots are small, it isn't very noticible that it hangs up on the cast either, should I get the leader on the rod. I usually use 8# f/c with 20# braid. If using heavier lines, resulting in larger knots, that may pose an issue, I don't do that so I have no input.

Casting rods, I try to avoid leaders basically because the line guides are smaller and I usually cast with the lure within a couple inches of the rod tip, so I eliminate the knot issue wherever possible when talking about baitcasters. I use either straight co-poly or straight braid (braid on my jig & frog rods, others get the co-poly).

As for the micro-guide question, I have one and those guides are small, but it's casting rod. I could see a problem with knots going through such a small guide, but I haven't tied on a leader just to see how much of a problem it might present - because it would not occur for me in a real fishing situation as I avoid leaders on baitcasting combo's and to try it purely out of curiousity...... as my avitar suggests: I don't give a sh!t.

Last edited by bassboogieman; 10-21-12 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 10-24-12, 07:22 AM   #4
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Oko, Bruce thanks for the input.
I guess I'm talking mostly about spinning gear.
I too try to avoid the knot going through guides and my knots go through them with little or no problem. But I'm a long caster and the closer(with in reason) the lure to the tip, the longer or easier the cast.
But the real question, when I do get knots going through IS IT hurting the guides?
I have all high/higher end rods mostly with Fuji guides.

Oko, that means your knots are going through guides almost every cast, right?
I still have an interest ANGLERS!
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Old 10-24-12, 08:48 AM   #5
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Quote:
But the real question, when I do get knots going through IS IT hurting the guides?
Ok, nit picker, specifically then................

With today's inserts, I can't imagine a knot doing damage - like nicks or scratches. If you're using a "Snoopy" or better yet, a MICKEY MOUSE rod you bought at the Dollar Store, maybe as those cheap kiddie "toys" have plastic inserts in the guides, not very durable. If you're buying quality rods their inserts are made from hard material then the softer line, regardless of material (unless it's wire) won't do this type of damage.

Another issue, and again it boils down to the quality of the rod and the line guides & inserts used in building it - knots going through guides WITH inserts, may loosen and eventually knok the insert out of the guide. The quality of construction and the insert material all have a bearing on the durability of the line guide, and possibly the size of the knot you're talking about - the bigger the knot the more likely it is to impart some shock to the insert as it passes through. Guides without inserts (recoil and some stainless guides) won't have that issue. Again, the bottom line is the cheaper the guides (or other components) the more likely you are to have issues.

With braided line, guide insert damage more often is due to the braided line itself. Again, cheaper insert material will be damaged from the braid wearing a groove in the insert. Top quality line guides withstand line abrasion much better and may last you the life to the rod. That said, the abraison is much more of a concern when fighting a fish (line is in more constant contact and with more pressue applied) than when casting.

You always have the posibility of a "defective" guide on any rod, but with quality guides knots should not be much of a consderation when it comes to line induced guide/insert damage. The far greater cause of damage (you're probably aware) to a guide (the tip anyway) is reeling the line in and the lure or hook hits the tip. That will eventually do some harm, either nicking, cracking or knocking the insert (if so constructed) out. I don't remember ever seeing a rod tip without an insert (I certainly haven't picked up every rod ever made), but there may be one out there and surely they will incure knicks if reeling a lure/hook into them also.

Bryce will probably be along and give all the scientific explalnations with charts and graphs, but that's the dummies (me not you) explanation.

And please, have the best day you possibly can.

Last edited by bassboogieman; 10-24-12 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 10-24-12, 11:52 AM   #6
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Yes, my splice knot travels through most of the guides most of the time. I'd have more concern for damage to the knot than damage to the guides. I like the Alberto knot because it's the slimmest knot I've found and the mainline (PE line in my case) totally encapsulates the leader (thinner and more fragile in my case) within the knot. I use 8 - 10 wraps up and 5 - 6 wraps down to be sure I've tied enough of the leader into the knot. Because I use NanoFil (very slippery) as a mainline I leave 1/2" tag to the PE side of the knot.

oe
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Old 10-24-12, 08:09 PM   #7
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Thanks Okoboji, good info, I will research further. Never heard of an alberto knot.
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Old 10-24-12, 08:30 PM   #8
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OkobojiEagle, thanks for bringing this to our attention.


Just like me, some of you might find this of interest, modified Albright beats Uni to Uni knot.

http://youtu.be/2R_2xautA1U


-Mark

Last edited by woody; 10-24-12 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 10-25-12, 09:38 AM   #9
fishingprodigy
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Definitely going to reccommend the alberto knot (modified albright knot) as well. I've never once had it break before the knot on my hook. I usually go 6 wraps up 6 wraps down, but sometimes do 5 wraps up 5 wraps down if I feel like living on the edge
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