Interesting article on hooksets

[Jrob78]

I know I am guilty of this from time to time, especially on baits like Senkos and flukes and on long casts.

http://blog.wired2fish.com/blog/bid/...the-Hook-Wrong

[bcklash]

Joe thanks for posting. I also find this very interesting

[WaffleJaw]

That is an interesting read......Im not sure I understand how the slack opens the bass's mouth?....Is the theory its holds on longer when tight so the lure doesnt escape I guess?

I had to read it quick at work....Someone throw me some cliff notes

[joedog]

Good read. Thank you.

[Tavery5]

Interesting article, thanks Joe.

[kennethdaysale]

Reading this guy talk about just pulling on practice fish instead of trying to set on them, makes me think about times when I have been lucky enough to kinda lead fish out of heavy cover like brushpiles and dock pilings and into open water before leaning into them. I'm sure some of you guys have experienced this phenomenon as well, of course they need to be on a hot worm bite and it helps if you're pulling fish from a school.(just seems to me that a schooler holds on for dear life and wants to leave the area anyway) I'm not exactly sure how this relates to the hook setting topic except that in my mind if I managed to gently lead or coax a nice bass 2 or 3 feet out from under a dock with my worm in his mouth (since I'm convinced they don't have hands or pockets) I'm probably going to hook him by just leaning into him..no need to try and cross his eyes.

edit...I'm not real clear on the hook flexing issue. I want my hooks to have a little flex.

[Tavery5]

Hook flex is generally thought to be a bad thing, it changes the relationship between the hook point and line tie and you lose pressure or leverage at the hook point when the hook flexes.

This is the reason I prefer a larger stiffer hook in my swimjigs, I have not found the thin wire hooks to penetrate nearly as well as the stiffer, thicker hooks and I believe this is largely due to hook flex.

I know the common thought is that the thin wire will penetrate more easily because of less mass to pull through the mouth of a fish. In my experience this has not been true, again because of the leverage and pressure at hook point that you lose when hooks flex.

[Tavery5]

I'm sorry but I wanted to add a little more about hook flex and how I proved this to myself. One summer I had the best luck ever fishing a tube bait made by Lake Fork Tackle, called the Tube Craw. This was my go to plastic bait and I had allot of confidence in it. Only problem was, I was not getting a good hookup ratio. I had thought that the bait was not collapsing well and it was the reason I had fish coming unbuttoned. I spoke with a respected friend of mine about my issue and he is the one who first told me about hook flex and the negative attributes associated with it. I then found a tube jig head with a stiffer hook and my hookups greatly improved.

As with anything, prove it to yourself.

[rrw4258]

Very good article, I have also started to move over to a heavier wire hook, especially for senkos and flukes. I use a 3/0 or 4/0 Mustad UltraLock EWG Hook, and have noticed it seems like I am sticking more fish by taking alot of the slack out of the line first.

Ryan

[pro reel]

Originally Posted by Tavery5

Hook flex is generally thought to be a bad thing, it changes the relationship between the hook point and line tie and you lose pressure or leverage at the hook point when the hook flexes.

This is the reason I prefer a larger stiffer hook in my swimjigs, I have not found the thin wire hooks to penetrate nearly as well as the stiffer, thicker hooks and I believe this is largely due to hook flex.

I know the common thought is that the thin wire will penetrate more easily because of less mass to pull through the mouth of a fish. In my experience this has not been true, again because of the leverage and pressure at hook point that you lose when hooks flex.

I hate thin wire hooks. I fish a sponsor tourney every year and to use jigs, they have to be jewel or eakins brands. Jeff kriet designed some shakey heads for jewel and those are the jigs i bought to use in that tourney. I was impressed when I first got them. They had a nice head shape and the powder coating was hard as rocks. I did notice though that it was a very thin wire hook. I had heard that these were suposed to slip in like a needle, and they were designed and pushed by a respected tourney pro, so I used them. What a bunch of crap. They might be ok for catching 1 pd bass on trout gear, but the fisrt decent bass I caught on one had nearly straightend the hook and I also missed a lot of fish with them. I have now retired them out of my jig box and if anyone wants some squirel tail jigs cheap, give me a call, I have a couple dozen. Thankfully, another sponsor of that tourney also has a shakey head jig with a normal hook, I need to stock up on those now, they come from big bite baits.

[kennethdaysale]

I might have been sold on the "pierces like a needle mentality" I really don't know. I have caught more than one 10lb bass on a #6 tru-turn bream hook while wacky worming a 4" finesse worm on 4lb Trilene. I've had a couple of fish straighten light wire hooks of various sizes as well. I will say that I do a LOT of my fishing in deep clear water with little cover and rely heavily on a long lively rod the comfortable give of mono and a flawless drag set correctly. If indeed a light wire hook does penetrate a bass jaw such that the pressure is in the bend rather than the point, I feel that even a big fish isn't going to put enough torque on the hook to straighten it. I would love for a hook or lure manuf. to video and publish some real world yet unbiased and scientific tests regarding all the factors required to straighten different hooks.
I also subscribe to the keep it natural approach as much as possible and am a big fan of light line techniques so my hook choices are largely dictated by nessecity(sp)...wouldn't want to tie on a 6/0 punch hook to throw a 4" weightless senko on #6 test. Lastly it is nice when the bite is hot like in my post above and they just refuse to let go but thats the exception rather than the rule so I have always tried to throw soft plastics (regardless of size or type) with the lightest(if any) weight and the smallest thinnest hooks possible. I always try to keep an open mind though. As a matter of fact my wife with a whopping 2 years of experience got tired of hearing about all this "soft natural" crap and challenged me to put a live crawdad or bluegill in MY mouth and tell her how soft and natural it felt.

[Jrob78]

I think not taking up enough slack out of my line is the biggest cause of me missing hooksets. This is especially problematic on weightless baits like Flukes and Senkos where I make a really long cast. I will play the fish for a few seconds but it comes unbuttoned. I think it's because I'm not taking up enough slack and making a positive hookset. By the time my line gets tight, I'm at the end of my set and just don't have enough momentum left to drive the hook home.

Walker, I think what he means by the slack popping a fish's mouth open is all the weight and bulk of jig being slammed against the front of the mouth. Instead of the hook catching and penetrating deeper, it is brought to the front by the jarring hookset, the force of the bait opens the mouth. A slower, steady pressure type of hookset allows the bait to remain a little deeper and allows the hook to penetrate instead of being jerked away.

[lunkerscore]

To me a vertical eye jig is not any good for anything except lost fish. I use only a 60% hook and if I want it to hang level for straight down doodle, swimming or hopping with 3/4 0z., I have my own technique for rigging it. I may go through a lot of small rubber band in a day but it sure works for me.

Sound kind of crazy, but if anyone is interested I will go into more detail. As Izaak Walton said: " Angling may be said to be like mathematics in that can never be fully learnt".

[joedog]

I too came to a similar conclusion after experiencing similar results. Slack line was bad, for me anyways. Now, "leaning in " means pulling back, right? Oxymoron? I don't really bring the rod towards the fish at the start while reeling in slack. I leave rod more stationary at this point. I equate it to like a wieghtless texas style hook set, tension, reel in slack (maybe I do bring the pole towards the fish?), feel presure, sweeping hookset, usually 3:00 or 9:00 angle.
The hook question. I think when he's talking hook flex, he means the slight give (or flex)the hook has. Not the actual straighting of the hook. Regardless of size all objects with a similar bend will experience a flex, it's just a matter of when and why. Thats my take on it anyway.
Again I really find this article very good and very informative.

[bassfishkansas]

Interesting... I just recently switched to heavier wire Trokar hooks, and i have also watched my hookup ratio soar, compared to the flexy, "needle" hooks that I used before.

[merc1997]

i would like to put my two cents worth in here about the hookset. first, just let me give you a couple of examples for you to chew on. if you have your arm out straight and locked and someone yanks on your arm, you will most likely jost fall off balance and follow the direction of the pull. now, imagine your in a bent relaxed position and someone yanks on it, it will most likely dislocate your shoulder. does anyone know what actually is the cause of a whip cracking?? it is actually the tip passing the speed of sound. you set a "s" curvein the whip and as that curve straightens out into a straight line, the curve get infinately smaller and therefore the tip goes infinately faster. passing the speed of sound just as it straightens out making the crack.

now lets apply this theory to setting the hook. which will have more impact, the whip like set, or pulling with a tight line??

now, to answer the position that one has lost fish setting with a slack line, it has much more to do with the lure, or type of hook you are using. straight shank hooks do not facilitate and rotation to vertical. the traditional jig with the center based weedguard fight the hook over on its side instead of vertical to the fish's mouth, or roof of the mouth. those misses are most often caused from the hook coming out of the fishes mouth flat, and not hooking anything.

evrything, even as simple as a hook works mechanically once attached to a line and pulled or jerked. unfortunately, some hooks and lures do not work well for the angler from a mechanical hooking aspect.

i have lots of very simple visual tests that will back up what i am trying to teach you. light wire hooks are not for fishing. you need enough stiffness to keep the throat from flexing to keep the hook point lined up with the pull of your line to penetrate easier. once the throat of the hook starts to flex, the hook point is rotating away from what you are trying to drive it through.

[kennethdaysale]

Originally Posted by merc1997

hookset arm yanks. light wire hooks are not for fishing.????

Welcome to the forums Merc! Way to jump in with an absolute blanket statement of fact(opinion?). Thou shalt lovest it here.

[pro reel]

many many years ago, i was at a fishing expo and they had the mobile fish tank display there. Some mid level tourney guy was doing a seminar and one of his big points was hook sets. Now at that time, mono was pretty much the only line available. One of the things he talked a lot about was how much stretch was in mono and how little force was actually being applied to the hook with the traditional hookset. At that time, most pros were telling us to crank all the slack out of your line before setting the hook. This pro said exactly the opposite. He demonstrated how that doesn't work by holding a hook in his hand while someone tried to jerk it free with a traditional tight line hook set. It was very easy for him to hold the hook. He then had audience members try it and they were shocked at how easy it was for them to hold a hook while someone swung for the fences with a tight line. What happens when you do that is the rod bends and the line stretches and those 2 things combined absorb most of the energy. Now you can use a broomstick and braid to alieviate some of that problem, but you still wont get nearly as much energy from a tight line hookset as you will from a slack line hookset. Woo davies is a big proponent of slack line hook sets. he calls it snatching the hook . he demonstreted it in an episode of the bass pros last year where he holds a T rigged worm and jerks on the rod with a tight line. The hook doesn't even come through the bait. But when he drops some slack in the line and then jerks, it snatches the hook out of the bait. If you have ever pulled a car with a chain, you have seen exactly what I'm talking about. If you hook a chain to the bumper of a car, and then gently pull the chain tight, you can stomp on the gas and you will pull the car forward. If you do the same thing but let a good amount of slack in the chain, then stomp on the gas, well, when the chain comes tight it will rip the bumper off of the car. Thats the same thing Woo talked about and it's the same thing merk described with a bent arm pull versus a straight arm pull. Now, the exception to that is all these ultra thin wire hooks that have come out recently. If you do a hard slack line snatch with those, the hook will flex and the point won't be in line with the pull force and it will skip across the fishs mouth and pop loose. In that case, the best chance to hook the fish is to let them take it and just apply tension so that the needle point slides into something before you set the hook. I Don't want to need to remember to use one hook set for this and one for that. It was hard enough for me to re learn to stop cranking the line tight. I switched to the snatch slack line set several years ago and as long as I use a good hook, I usually get a good hook set.

[merc1997]

Originally Posted by kennethdaysale

Welcome to the forums Merc! Way to jump in with an absolute blanket statement of fact(opinion?). Thou shalt lovest it here.

that statement is pretty much from fact, years of experience trying everything, and actual testing using different techniques. you will have to understand that i am a very competitive person, and i have fished tournament my entire life, and i hate to lose. i am and will use the best techniques to put as many odds in my favor as i possibly can.

[kennethdaysale]

Originally Posted by merc1997

that statement is pretty much from fact, years of experience trying everything, and actual testing using different techniques. you will have to understand that i am a very competitive person, and i have fished tournament my entire life, and i hate to lose. i am and will use the best techniques to put as many odds in my favor as i possibly can.

Hey Merc No sweat..I was just having some fun with ya. I appreciate your competitiveness. The pro tours are loaded with driven and competitive guys and if you talk to them about just about any facet of fishing including hookset techniques that might be appropriate for any given circumstance, I seriously doubt you'd hear any of them say......this or that is the only right way to do it every time. Even those guys aren't that ____________.

[nofearengineer]

Merc, your hookset might work for you, but it isn't for any similarity to a bull whip.

The whip end speeds up because the energy and momentum of the entire whip gets focused into the tip. That energy and momentum comes from the mass of the whip in motion.

Fishing line, unlike a bullwhip, is extremely light. Next time you are tying a lure on, pause first and try your best to make it crack like a whip. You'll break the rod first. And I know something about broken rods LOL.

[kennethdaysale]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Merc, your hookset might work for you, but it isn't for any similarity to a bull whip.

The whip end speeds up because the energy and momentum of the entire whip gets focused into the tip. That energy and momentum comes from the mass of the whip in motion.

Fishing line, unlike a bullwhip, is extremely light. Next time you are tying a lure on, pause first and try your best to make it crack like a whip. You'll break the rod first. And I know something about broken rods LOL.

OMG NFE you have stepped in it this time. Didn't you read Merc's #19 post? #1 His statements are facts! #2 He has years of experience #3 He has tried everything #4 He has actually tested stuff #5 He is very competitive #6 He has fished tourneys all his life #7 He hates to lose #8 He puts the odds in his favor. I think one day when he's standing on the stage holding the Classic trophy, we'll all say...."we knew him when...."

[Bassboss]

Ok guys, I'm sorta confused now. lol.

I read somewhere else (maybe here), that when you set the hook with a jig, drop slack in your line, and set on the slack line. It said the sudden jerk, rather then the sudden consistent pressure (like you'd see when most us guys set the hook), quickly sticks the hook into em, rather then pulling to hook in em.

I can't remember the exact reasoning they had for it, but it seemed very convincing at the time.

Now I'm reading this and it's saying just kinda lean into em, and pull the hook in em... that is if I'm understanding this stuff right.. am I? lol

[kennethdaysale]

Sam..no big deal really. Just two schools of thought. You should set the hook the way you like to do it. There are alot of factors that determine what's going to be the best way in any given situation. Never hurts to keep an open mind and feel free to experiment.

[merc1997]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Merc, your hookset might work for you, but it isn't for any similarity to a bull whip.

The whip end speeds up because the energy and momentum of the entire whip gets focused into the tip. That energy and momentum comes from the mass of the whip in motion.

Fishing line, unlike a bullwhip, is extremely light. Next time you are tying a lure on, pause first and try your best to make it crack like a whip. You'll break the rod first. And I know something about broken rods LOL.

even fishing line has mass. and yes i can make line snap with a fishing rod. i think pro reel had a really good analogy with the chain and bumper. that sudden impact with slack delivers more energy for just that split instant than the pull factor. plus if you stop to think, if the fish is being pulled toward you, then you are not doing much to make the hook penetrate. basically with the pull technique you are just hopping the the fish will not let go, and will eventually hook itself.