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Old 03-17-10, 09:28 PM   #1
BigBassin144
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Default Rod Power vs. Action

Ok, as we roll around on the spring fishing season, there are a lot of questions as to what rod to use for what, and what specs are best for what techniques.

One thing that I commonly see is the terms power and action used interchangeably. THEY'RE NOT THE SAME!

Power describes the rods strength. This is what some people refer to as the backbone of a rod. Listed in Ultra Light (UL), Light (L), Medium Light (ML), Medium (M), Medium Heavy (MH), Heavy (H), and Extra Heavy (XH).

Action refers to how much of the rod bends when put under pressure. This is listed as Slow (S), Moderate (M), Moderate Fast (MF), Fast (F), and Extra Fast (XF). On a fast action rod, the first 1/4 to 1/3 will bend, while on a slow action rod, 2/3 to 3/4 of the rod will bend. A slow action rod is sometimes referred to as parabolic because of the fairly uniform curve of the rod along most of the blank.

So consider this a friendly reminder for everyone, and maybe some new info for those who don't know the difference.

BB
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Old 03-17-10, 09:36 PM   #2
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Thanks, BB. This is good info. I know the terms you're talking about, but what I don't know is what power/action combination is "recommended" for what type of fishing. I say "recommended" because I'm sure there is variation in what each person might prefer or think is "best". What I need is a "rod guide" similar to the "line guide" on this site, which has been of great help to me. And maybe even a reel "gear ratio guide" to help explain what others think are good gear ratios to have for various types of fishing. I'm sure this has all been discussed in lots of threads, but it would be neat to have it all compiled in one place for people like me who can't seem to remember everything.
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Old 03-17-10, 09:45 PM   #3
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I'm with WatterBoy on this one.


-Mark
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Old 03-17-10, 09:47 PM   #4
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I'll second WatterBoy's suggestion.

Personally I've fished with different powered rods and I understand that given the same fish, same line, same conditions...etc, as I move up in power I'm trading feeling for capacity. What I don't understand is when should I be looking to step up from M to MH or even H?

When it comes to action, I understand the principal, but I'm lost when it comes to factoring that into my rod choice or picking a combo that works best for the lure/fishing conditions. e.g. M/F, M/XF, MH/F...etc.
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Old 03-17-10, 10:38 PM   #5
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In general I would say Fast or Extra Fast for anything without a treble hook. Anything with a treble hook such as crankbaits you might want to look at Moderate to Moderate Fast. It does get really confusing when comparing a Medium Light Extra Fast with a Medium Heavy Moderate on paper but maybe if you handle them it is more apparent. A rod guide like the line guide would be really nice.
One thing you can do is look at some manufacturer's websites that show suggested rods for each application such as St. Croix's: http://www.stcroixrods.com/product/l...ournament-bass

Just remember these are just guides though and you might find that something else works better for you. An example is I like a 6' Medium Fast (very whippy) rod for throwing spooks and super spooks but I don't think that will show up in any guide. And these are all just somebody's idea of what's best. Rod companies' goal is to sell rods so the more specific they can convince you a rod is that you need the more they can sell.
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Old 03-17-10, 10:57 PM   #6
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I like that run down Bender, thanks for the link. The only bad thing is that different rod makers might use a variance to what they consider in these classifications. But the only real way is to pick them up and test them out and find what works best for you.
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Old 03-17-10, 11:11 PM   #7
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Here's a article that might help.

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/...ons-power.html
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Old 03-18-10, 06:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrob78 View Post

Below that article, you can also click "Choosing the right rod"


Here's another:


http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/st...ctType=article

I agree with the masses on this one. I've always wished we had a guide here on BF.com. After taking nearly a decade off from fishing, it's quite a monumental task catching up on all the newer tactics and equipment.
I'm gettin there!
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Old 03-19-10, 04:03 AM   #9
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Well said, BB, and quite true. I am experiencing a bit of deja vu however. Somewhere not too long ago, I vaguely recall making a post on this very subject. I think I'm getting old.

Watterboy,

I hear you and I recall wanting to know or have a similar resource when I first started out. The thing about a rod guide is that would be a subjective thing at best or worst because this can very greatly from one angler to another.

What you can do is visit the sites of rod makers like St. Croix, Shimano, Lamiglas, and Loomis or whomever. Most will list their "technique specific" rods. Look at the Powers and Actions they give to those rods and the lure and line weight ratings and compare them. If you are observant enough, you will begin to see certain similarities, traits, and relationships for the lure types out there.

For example, you might notice that for what they would call a typical drop shot rod, you will probably see the following:

Rod Length: 6'3 to 7'2" with many being about 6'8" to 7' long

Power: Many will have a medium light to medium power depending on the depth the angler needs to fish. The MLs will tend to be good to about 25-30'. Going deeper, an angler would benefit from a rod with slightly more power (i.e., going to Medium power) to handle the heavier weight to go down deeper and to not feel so flimsy.

Line Weight: Usually 4-10 # test at the extreme upper and lower limits.

Lure Weight: Many will be 1/8 - 3/8 oz and some even up to 1/2 oz

Action: I have seen a tend toward Extra fast, but I like lami's Moderate fast action. So anywhere from Moderate to Extra Fast.

You can do the same for other lures to give you an idea and a starting point of the traits you might wish to consider for your "jig" rod or your "senko" rod.

Yeah, I'm a nerd, but whatever subject is before me, this is the approach I tend to take when learning anything new solo.

You will start to see patterns, and general characteristics in what many deem a "jig" or "drop shot" rod. You will also come to learn that rods with similar traits although not technique specific will likely perform just as well. They just won't have a "lure" label.

As for gear ratios, they do NOT tell you the whole story and some people don't realize this. What is more important is the amount of line the reel recovers and not its gear ratio. Many reel makers provide this in catalogs. For example a reel with a "lower" gear ratio can actually recover more line per revolution of the handle than one with a "higher" gear ratio.

Good hunting in your research.
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Old 03-19-10, 08:58 AM   #10
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Man, you are all overthinkin this whole rod thing...just take it from this guy.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJq3mMqtASE
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Old 03-19-10, 09:39 AM   #11
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Actually If you look past the ''lure label'' You'll start seeing that most technique specific rods are the same..

This was a sent to Tom Kirkman (Rodmaker Magazine) from Gary Loomis:

Here's an example which Gary Loomis sent me many, many years ago from G. Loomis, Inc.

All Casting blanks are identical to all Spin Jig blanks with the same number.
All Mag Bass blanks are identical to all Spin Jig blanks with the same number.
SW blanks, 843, 844 and 786 are identical to all Musky blanks with the same number.
L904, 905, 964 and 965 are identical to all Back Bouncing blanks with the same number.
Surf965 is the same as L965 and BB965.
Surf1023 is the same as all HotShot blanks of the same number.


Look past ''lure'' rods,and just focus on the numbers
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Old 03-19-10, 09:57 AM   #12
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Honestly, I go fishing for fun, and nit picking about using a F vs MF tip is just asinine. A majority or rods out there do not even have tip action listed, and none of my 15-20 rods have it listed. I just use Med or MH rods and leave the rest to chance and luck.

Now if I was fishing these $100,000 tournaments it would matter more, but for relaxing or these little $500 purse tournaments, spending $400 on a few rods with different tip action is over doing it from my perspective.
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Old 03-19-10, 10:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screwballl View Post
Honestly, I go fishing for fun, and nit picking about using a F vs MF tip is just asinine. A majority or rods out there do not even have tip action listed, and none of my 15-20 rods have it listed. I just use Med or MH rods and leave the rest to chance and luck.

Now if I was fishing these $100,000 tournaments it would matter more, but for relaxing or these little $500 purse tournaments, spending $400 on a few rods with different tip action is over doing it from my perspective.
For fishing for fun and relaxing I can understand why the varibles wouldnt matter to you much,and I respect that.
But lets go deeper into tip action.
Different tip actions are gonna affect your presentation/casting in relation to lure weight/hook setting/fatigue.

For example: If your fishing a worm/jig on a Moderate action rod.Your gonna have to exert more energy and strength to set the hook..More of the rod flexes so it takes more time+energy to transfer a response to the bait.On a retrieve rod its not as important giving the nature of how the lure is fished (the fish basically screw themselves)....
So a faster action rod is gonna respond faster,less energy used,better hook up ratio,less fatigue on the angler.

Also I faster tip rod is more sensitive due to its response time increasing your bite detection.

The same idea is also important to lure weight...A fast tip,Med (or lighter) rod is gonna cast lighter lures further...The same lure on a MH/Mod/Fast rod will go about 10 ft...So again,matching up the proper tip action+ lure weight will save energy to angler by saving their arm.
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Last edited by WaffleJaw; 03-19-10 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 03-19-10, 04:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screwballl View Post
Honestly, I go fishing for fun, and nit picking about using a F vs MF tip is just asinine. A majority or rods out there do not even have tip action listed, and none of my 15-20 rods have it listed. I just use Med or MH rods and leave the rest to chance and luck.

Now if I was fishing these $100,000 tournaments it would matter more, but for relaxing or these little $500 purse tournaments, spending $400 on a few rods with different tip action is over doing it from my perspective.
This post wasn't supposed to be about which rods are for what techniques, nitpicking about a F vs MF action rod, or anything like that.

I was simply clearing up the difference between Power and Action in rods because it is a concept that is confusing to some because of the fact that people use the terms action and power interchangeably.

BB
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Old 03-19-10, 07:46 PM   #15
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I understand... I was trying to give a little bit different perspective for those of us that are weekend warriors and this may not really pertain to us.
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Old 03-19-10, 09:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screwballl View Post
I understand... I was trying to give a little bit different perspective for those of us that are weekend warriors and this may not really pertain to us.

I'm a weekend warrior and it definitely pertains to me
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Old 03-19-10, 10:05 PM   #17
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Ditto. I'm just trying to learn all I can.
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Old 03-19-10, 10:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBassin144 View Post
This post wasn't supposed to be about which rods are for what techniques, nitpicking about a F vs MF action rod, or anything like that.

I was simply clearing up the difference between Power and Action in rods because it is a concept that is confusing to some because of the fact that people use the terms action and power interchangeably.

BB
I apologize, BB, for steering this this thread in a direction it wasn't intended to go. That certainly wasn't my intent.
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Old 03-19-10, 10:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatterBoy View Post
I apologize, BB, for steering this this thread in a direction it wasn't intended to go. That certainly wasn't my intent.
That's cool man, I was just steering back towards the right direction.

BB
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Old 03-21-10, 03:48 PM   #20
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Default Peeling the onion 1 layer deeper

Thanks BB for posting this info..... Can I peel the rod construction 1 more layer without hijacking this post? I am betting that answer is "no"......

I have questions about rods/blanks that I have yet to find an adequate answer to. Maybe I am dense and I am just not getting it though.

Some blank suppliers market their blanks in different categories. For instance, some blanks are offered in "Cast Bass", "Mag Bass", "Spin Bass", "Popping", and "Spin Jig". Another company might have those exact same categories, but will also have a "Blended" category.

What are the definitions of these categories?

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Old 03-21-10, 06:06 PM   #21
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Once upon a time a long time ago...
An average fishermen own one or two rods that were so tallented that they did everything.
Ardent fishermen might own a couple of rods for different species.

One day a man names Scott invented Bass fishing tournaments, and fishermen in those tournaments started carrying extra rods pre-rigged so they didn't have to cut-off and re-tie when they changed baits.

Having made that decision, it made sense to optimize each rod's action, to suit those individual baits. This was fine but the average Joe didn't understand these subtleties.
A smart rod maker, named Loomis, saw that his wealthy clients would also buy different rods for different baits, if they were told what each rod was for...Other lesser rod manufacturers saw the average Joe would also buy the same rods over again if they had different decals...So they started labeling a line of rods that way.

This meant that retailer's would have to stock more rods even if, under the decal, they were the same thing...It also meant that many fishermen would assume there was a critical difference between identical and nearly identical rods.

All of this was good for the tackle business and everyone lived happily ever after...
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Old 03-31-10, 09:55 AM   #22
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For those that don't know much about this stuff: For most weekend warriors and those that are not specific rod type fishermen, a 6'6" medium power rod with a moderate-fast or fast action is a good all around rod to use.

As for them being seperate things, that is all too true. Lower end rods only list the power (sometimes they list it as action). More expensive rods tend to list both on the blank. If you fish crank baits a lot the rod I mentioned above will work great. If you fish more worms, jigs, tubes I would suggest a MH power rod with atleast a fast action.

There are many combinations out there that make things confusing to many anglers. Just feel the rod and pick one that feels good to you and you will most likely be happy.
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Old 04-06-10, 10:18 PM   #23
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I too am a "returning" fisherman and appreciate the info BB as it clarifies what can be a confusing situation....thanks.
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