When the Palomar fails

[Abbeysdad]

So I'm at the pond at lunch time. The blue/black silicone skirt jig isn't producing so I tie on a big white spinner bait using a palomar knot.

I go to fire the 6th cast and the bait goes flying leaving the line behind. The end was all curly like the knot just came undone.

I hate it when that happens! Maybe I didn't spit on it enough.
Just bought that $5 spinner bait too...dern thing never even got a hit.

Oh well.

[AUFred]

Could have developed a twist when cinching down too. Sorry about your bait.

[WaffleJaw]

Abby,try this knot out for your spinnerbaits...Its a slightly modify clinch knot that I was taught awhile back..not sure of the name,and I havent seen it online anywhere....Ive never lost a lure on it,Ive always had to cut the line if I get hung up,very easy and quick to tie...The line is loop through the eye twice for double strength.....Ive ripped cranks outta trees with this bad boy.
I made this in paint,so if it doesnt make sense,let me know...sorry

[The Doc]

Use the fish n fool knot. Best knot out there.

[Abbeysdad]

Thanks waffle - I'll give it a try but gotta tell ya I abandoned the improved cinch knot version (realize this has the double eye variation) because it was much harder to tie than the palomar and frankly, I didn't think as good. There's a lot to be said about trying to tie some of these dang knots in a rolling boat or when yer hands are cold as ice. Maybe I'm just gettin crotchety in my older age!

[TnTom]

Ive had that curly-cue look when I mis-tie a Imp Clinch knot or with light weight mono on occasion but usually shows itself when I cinch it up.

Are you sure you didn't actually miss getting the Spinner Bait back through the loop?

Never had a Polamar knot fail.

I always tug them real good and it should fail then. Can't spit too much either.
Shoot I know that feeling watching a lure go flying off in the distance.

[nofearengineer]

I have had a palomar knot fail on braid when I cinched the knot wrong and had to pull a lot of slack through it to tighten on the spinnerbait. The friction, even wetted apparently damaged the line.

That's why I've taken to tying spinnerbaits (the kind without the loop anyway) by starting with a palomar free hand, then just dropping the blades through the loop. It helps keep the loop small that way.

[MississippiBoy]

I usually tie the double Palomar, and have never had it fail on me. When tying the first overhand part of the knot, run the loop through twice instead of just once.
But the first knot I learned to tie way back in the day was the improved clinch knot, so that's what I use on mono. I only use the Palomar on braid.

[BigBassin144]

I use the improved clinch on everything but braid and rarely have the knot break unless I'm hung up on something.

For braid, I do use the palomar, but I tie an overhand knot after it for extra protection. (this doesn't work with fluoro and mono though)

BB

[nofearengineer]

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

I use the improved clinch on everything but braid and rarely have the knot break unless I'm hung up on something.

For braid, I do use the palomar, but I tie an overhand knot after it for extra protection. (this doesn't work with fluoro and mono though)

BB

Do you tie the overhand knot in the tag end or the Palomar, you mean?

[BigBassin144]

nope, I tie it with mainline and the tag end. I don't know if I should have called it an overhand knot, but it's just like you the first X you make while tying your shoes.

BB

[woody]

Abbeysdad,

I had this very same exact thing happen to me one time. After the initial disappointment of loosing the new spinnerbait, I realized that I had only passed the palomar loop over one sides of the lure and not both the blade side and hook side. I wont do that again.


-Mark

[nofearengineer]

Oh okay....so it's an overhand knot, but with two lines at once. That makes sense. Sort of like a bastard child of a Palomar Knot and a Surgeon's Loop.

[Bassboss]

Darn man.. that really sucks!

But what just started using is some thing I call the Trilene Jam. It's a mix of the Trilene knot, and the San Deigo Jam. You loop the line twice trough the eye.


The loop should look like that. So once you make the loop, there, tie the San Deigo Jam, just put it trough that look BEFORE you pass it through the top loop you would normally put the tag end through when tieing the Deigo.

Do you folow?

[bassboogieman]

I've not had the Palomar fail, one lucky guy I am. Not saying this is your problem, but my father-in-law had difficulty tieing this knot. Same thing you did, tie on a spinnerbait, and second cast it broke off. He did that twice. I watched him tie his knot, and when he tightened the knot - he pulled the line end rather than the tag end and didn't wet the knot very well. The line above the lure was all curly, as you describe, from the friction of tightening the knot, which also weakened the line just above the knot. After he cut it off and re-tied the correct way, no more problems.

[BigBassin144]

Not to hijack the thread, but I've heard a couple different things about tying the palomar.

I've heard to only pull the tag end. I've also heard to only pull the mainline. And I've also heard to pull both at the same time. So, which is right?

I've noticed it doesn't really matter with braid, but when it tie it on other lines (which I rarely do) I find pulling both slowly (and well lubricated) works good until almost the end, then pull just the tag to finish it up.

BB

[BassMoJo]

I prefer the loop swoop and pull method when tying my fishing knots ....:P

[AUFred]

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

Not to hijack the thread, but I've heard a couple different things about tying the palomar.

I've heard to only pull the tag end. I've also heard to only pull the mainline. And I've also heard to pull both at the same time. So, which is right?

I've noticed it doesn't really matter with braid, but when it tie it on other lines (which I rarely do) I find pulling both slowly (and well lubricated) works good until almost the end, then pull just the tag to finish it up.

BB

I normally pull both at once. If anything is left looped I pull the tag end.
I prefer to wet the knot but not with saliva.

[nofearengineer]

Originally Posted by AUFred

I normally pull both at once. If anything is left looped I pull the tag end.
I prefer to wet the knot but not with saliva.

Ohhh....this certainly begs the question....

Why not saliva?

Barring saliva...what if you don't have to go at just that moment?

[Abbeysdad]

I 'think' the error of my ways with tying THIS knot is because of the spinner bait (well that and the 8# mono) ... I don't use these big spinner baits a lot on light mono and in looking over this thread and pondering, I'm pretty sure after I made the loop, I ONLY passed the hook end through it, not BOTH the hook and blade ends (although frankly, not zactly sure of the difference that makes).

Also, in general, I am thinking of trying a few of the things mentioned here with the palomar, like passing the bait through the loop twice and/or following up the palomar with an overhand or surgeons knot fer just a bit extry grip.

[MississippiBoy]

Originally Posted by Abbeysdad

I 'think' the error of my ways with tying THIS knot is because of the spinner bait (well that and the 8# mono) ... I don't use these big spinner baits a lot on light mono and in looking over this thread and pondering, I'm pretty sure after I made the loop, I ONLY passed the hook end through it, not BOTH the hook and blade ends (although frankly, not zactly sure of the difference that makes).

Also, in general, I am thinking of trying a few of the things mentioned here with the palomar, like passing the bait through the loop twice and/or following up the palomar with an overhand or surgeons knot fer just a bit extry grip.

If you're referring to my post above, I think you misunderstood me. Don't pass the LURE through the loop twice, pass the doubled "end" through twice when you do the overhand knot part. Hmmm....easier to show you what I mean than tell you.

Click here, and do step #4 twice:

http://animatedknots.com/palomar/ind...matedknots.com

If you're not referring to my post, I beg your pardon, and please ignore me.

[AUFred]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Ohhh....this certainly begs the question....

Why not saliva?

Barring saliva...what if you don't have to go at just that moment?

Saliva is acidic and can actually contribute to knot break down.
So I have been told.

[AUFred]

Originally Posted by Abbeysdad

I 'think' the error of my ways with tying THIS knot is because of the spinner bait (well that and the 8# mono) ... I don't use these big spinner baits a lot on light mono and in looking over this thread and pondering, I'm pretty sure after I made the loop, I ONLY passed the hook end through it, not BOTH the hook and blade ends (although frankly, not zactly sure of the difference that makes).

Also, in general, I am thinking of trying a few of the things mentioned here with the palomar, like passing the bait through the loop twice and/or following up the palomar with an overhand or surgeons knot fer just a bit extry grip.

You need the loop big enough for the whole bait to pass through for a proper Palomar.

[Abbeysdad]

Originally Posted by MississippiBoy

If you're referring to my post above, I think you misunderstood me. Don't pass the LURE through the loop twice, pass the doubled "end" through twice when you do the overhand knot part. Hmmm....easier to show you what I mean than tell you.

Click here, and do step #4 twice:

http://animatedknots.com/palomar/ind...matedknots.com

If you're not referring to my post, I beg your pardon, and please ignore me.

Ah....gotcha

Originally Posted by AUFred

Saliva is acidic and can actually contribute to knot break down.
So I have been told.

Nah, not hardly. For example, some pretty serious acids/acidic compounds can be stored in plastic jugs. The pH of saliva is nowhere near acidic enough to do much of anything to Nylon used in most monofilament production and besides, don't you think it washes off pretty quickly when it hits the water?

Footnote: Saliva IS perhaps one of the most slickery natural lubricants there is perhaps except for some mucus which maybe is a topic for some other forum.

[MississippiBoy]

Originally Posted by AUFred

Saliva is acidic and can actually contribute to knot break down.
So I have been told.

I'd love to see how long it would take for saliva to dissolve fishing line to the point of failure. I'd wager it's a lot longer than the time between tying a knot and making that first cast.