Weedless Lures

[WallStreetAmigo]

I have recently started fishing a very small lake that is very weedy and has a lot of downed trees and lily pads extending out about 10-15 feet from shore. I can see the bass weaving in and out of the weedbeds and lilypads but I can't seem to get a bite with anything. I have tried spinnerbaits, texas rigged plastics, slow and fast retrieves, etc. and nothing is working.

I own very few lures that could be considered weedless and that can get through this slop without hanging up. What are the best weedless lures to use for these kinds of conditions? I cannot find any weedless jigs or weedless spoon type lures in my small one-horse town and may have to order some online. Since I won't be able to see them before I order, any advice on size, color, type, etc would be useful.

[skeeter944]

well, stay with basic colors for jigs,like black and blue and green pumpkin. you should try scum frogs or any weedless frog type lure.

[WallStreetAmigo]

Any input on colors for a scum frog?

[Rebbasser]

WSA, the first thing I reach for in a situation like that is a weightless soft plastic rigged like a T-rig but with no weight. You can fish just about any soft plastic that way. My usual go-to is a stickbait like a Senko, Tiki Stick, or Yum Dinger or a fluke type bait like a Zoom super fluke. It is light enough to stay on top of the weeds but will sink slowly when in open spaces, and will not pick up a lot of weeds. Catches a BUNCH of fish, too

Colors-you can't go wrong with colors like watermelon seed, watermelon red flake, and green pumpkin. For the fluke baits those colors plus baby bass, a shad color, and red shad.

Scum frog colors-green or black work well. If you want to try a frog I'd get some Zoom Horny Toads and some 4/0 extra wide gap hooks. Rig it like a T-rig with no weight and just chunk and wind-it is kind of like a weedless buzzbait. I've had the best luck on white.

[WallStreetAmigo]

Reb, can you give me input on how to determine what size/type hook to use for various plastics? This is one of the biggest mysteries to me.

[Rebbasser]

Be glad to. Most of the time you want to match the hook to the bait. For example, a straight tail worm like a trickworm or powerworm has a fairly small diameter, so a 1/0 or 2/0 hook will work nicely. Get a bigger bait like a Tiki Stick and you want to go with a bigger hook like a 3/0 so the plastic will not "clog" the throat of the hook hindering the hookset. For big, bulky plastics you need a big hook like a 4/0 or 5/0. If a hook looks too big for a bait it probably is. Give me a few minutes and I'll rig up a couple and post some pictures to show you what I mean.

[WallStreetAmigo]

Thanks Reb, you are the best. I really appreciate all the help.

[Rebbasser]

OK:


The worm on top has a hook that is way too big for it-see how it looks out of balance? Where the purple/white tail has balanced look to it-the hook is the correct size.

The bottom two are just the opposite-the top green one has a hook that is too small, or right on the edge of being too small. On a hookset the large amount of plastic could hinder the hookset if it gets wadded up in the bend of the hook. The bottom one has a hook that is the correct size-big enough to not be bothered by the plastic of the bait.

See what I mean when I say they look "balanced"? Also, I only used two hook sizes-the smaller ones are 2/0 and the larger ones are 4/0, but you can see the difference it makes depending on the size of the bait. There is no right or wrong size to use, but I hope you get what I mean.

[WallStreetAmigo]

Reb, that is the best method of explaining hook size that I have ever seen. I actually get it! Ask my wife, it's a big deal when I understand something the first time.....I never got the hang of "take the garbage out", "fix the laundry room light", etc the first time, that's for sure.

[Rebbasser]

Glad I could help, buddy! I've found it is a whole lot easier to understand something when you can see a picture of it than it is trying to visualize it using words.

[lizardsrule]

Try a weightless lizard, t-rigged. Along with the hook sizes Rebasser mentioned, you need to look at the hook wire diameter. For example the Gamakatsu "Superline" hooks, are thicker and stronger(also my favorite) than the standard Gamakatsu hooks. They will allow the bait to sink quicker, with the same size hook. Owner also makes a thicker hook. Those are my usual brands for hooks, especially since I almost exclusively fish Superlines they hold up better IMO.

Lizards

[keithdog]

I've had a lot of luck in this kind of situation using a black 1/2 oz. Johnson
spoon with a black No. 11 Uncle Josh bait frog. I would also advise using a medium heavy to heavy casting outfit with 17-20 pound test line. Work the spoon through and over the weeds and when you get a hit, give it a couple seconds to make sure the bass is able to get the bait in his mouth, then set the hook hard. Setting the hook the instant the bass hits the spoon usually just results in the spoon flying back at you at the speed of light!!!

[WallStreetAmigo]

I took Reb's previous advice and tried the one and only soft bait he mentioned above that I actually had - a single zoom fluke that I had kicking around (it was given to me by a friend when I first started fishing but I had no idea how to use it so it was sitting in the bottom of my tackle box). I caught a two and a half pound rainbow trout (no small feat in the lake I was fishing) and three 1 to 2 pound LM bass. Not bad considering my previous trip I didn't even get a bite. This lake is not known for large bass, as they top out around 3 pounds. Overall though, it is a great lake to learn how to work cover and practice casting techniques.

I really liked how simple it was to get good action from the bait and that I could pitch it around, over, and through the various cover. My wife even commented that I looked like I knew what I was doing and I actually felt like I did. Thanks again to all you guys and a special thanks to Reb for being so patient with a newbie like me.

My one question is what size do you recommend for senko's, etc?

[Rebbasser]

Way to go WSA! That's great-congrats on the fish!

I use the 5" most of the time, but the 4" comes in handy, too. If I had to choose one I'd get the 5".

[WallStreetAmigo]

Thanks Reb. One more question to all: I am fishing these plastics on braided powerpro line (20lb) and an EWG hook (various sizes as per the advice above!!!) and am wondering if I should be using a swivel or not. I have not been using any leader line or swivels with the soft plastics, I just use a palomar knot tied directly the the EWG hook and go from there. It seems to work okay, but any input is appreciated.

[WallStreetAmigo]

I should have also mentioned that I generally rig them weightless or occasionally will peg a bullet sinker. Most of the time they are weightless though.

[Rebbasser]

That's the way I fish them. The only time I use a swivel is on a Carolina rig where it acts as a sinker stop and on a floating worm rig, which is a way that rigs the worm with an intentional kink in the worm so it WILL spin in the water-the swivel eliminates line twist. My theory is the less knots the better.

Thinking about your fishing area a floating worm rig might be another weapon in your arsenal:

Tie a swivel to your line with a 6-10 inch leader tied to the other end of the swivel and tie on a 1/0 or 2/0 hook to the leader so you have
line-swivel-6 to 10" piece of line(leader)-hook.

Rig a straight tailed worm like a Powerworm or Trickworm on the hook but in this case make sure it does NOT hang straight, like the one on the bottom-the kink makes the worm spin in the water, which is what you want, and is also the reason for the swivel, to cut down on line twist:


Cast it out and work it with a quick jerk-jerk-jerk cadence, pausing occasionally to let it sink a bit-the name is a little deceiving, it doesn't really "float"-the fast cadence keeps it on top. It looks alive in the water-make a short cast where you can see it and you will see what I mean. For this technique bright colors work best-I've had the best success with pink, but white, orange, anything bright will work. This is more a visual tactic, so the bright colors help you see it. If it disappears, most likely a fish has grabbed it. It is a weedless technique so you can fish it on top and through weeds and won't get hung up.

[WallStreetAmigo]

I've never seen that floating worm rig. I'm going to try that out tomorrow....is it wrong to fish every day??? I am so addicted and even though I don't catch all that many fish compared to the hours I spend fishing, I really enjoy learning all these new rigs and how to use them and also trying out different lures to see what they do. Sooner or later I will have to hang up the rods for the winter, as it is already getting pretty darn cold up here in the great white north, but man am I ever having a blast. Thanks Reb, I will let you know how it works out.

[Rebbasser]

The operative word being "addicted"-I am too! Just can't get enough. Don't get discouraged about the time:fish ratio-there have been many days I've fished for hours and not gotten a hit and thoroughly enjoyed myself. Plus, you are learning something every time out.

I don't remember if I gave you this link or not, but for the time you can't fish due to hard water here is a great site for someone just getting started:

bassresource.com/beginner/beginner.html

There is a wealth of good info to be found there.

[Jolly]

I don't know if anyone has put this in yet but...

The pond I fish sounds identical to the pond you are fishing. Lots of grass on the bottom with floating pads and small pockets.

First, I would address your line. Depending on the clarity of the water a braided line can be extremely visible under water. The shallower the clearer the water is. Also, it is likely that the braided line floats on top of the water. This can create distractions for fish. Something on top of the water for them is either food, cover, or danger... usually danger. However, I have used braided line in the past and had bluegill nipping at it where it floats and dimples under the water. I guess it looked like a bug or something. That only draws attention to the line. Fish are smarter than most people give them credit. They know that nothing they eat has grass or line coming out of it. If your bait does then they won't eat it (usually). If your water is clear, and since you say that the fish are realatively small in your pond, I would go out and get a 10-12 lb mono that doesn't float. P-Line premium is a good line w/ some stretch. It is virtually invisible under water and I have good luck with the super clear water I fish.

Next, tackle. I usually have the best luck drop-shotting in between the grass on the bottom and the pads on the top. A drop shot is basically the worm being suspended over the weight like a yo-yo. The weight stays stationary while you move the lure up and down or jiggle it. I use this for getting right in the middle of trees or in your case getting fish in between the grass at the bottom and the pads at the top. You can rig it many different ways, but in your case I say just two. You can wacky or you can t-rig. Wacky: Start by tieing a very small 1/0 straight shank or smaller hook about 6" above where the grass would start if your weight was sitting on the bottom ( if the grass was 6" tall, your hook would be tied 12" from the wieght). Try to tie the hook so that when you set the hook the barb and the u are facing away from the line and not going into it on the pull (I really don't know how to explain that w/o a picture, it isn't a real big deal as long as you get a good hook set). Then with the tag line make your 12" or however long it needs to be (as said above). At the bottom tie a 1/8 or 3/16 oz bullet weight with the point facing up. This will allow it to pull through the grass easier. Use a lesser knot on this so that if you do get hung up you will just break your weight off and not your whole rig. For bait, use a 4" tiki or senko worm. Darker color for murkey water, lighter color for clearer water. Take the small weight and hook it right through the center of the worm like a little kid would do. At this point, the worm and hook should make an upside down T. I know it looks absolutly rediculous but as long as you cast it into the pockets you shouldn't have too much problems with getting hung up. Cast into the pockets in between the pads an let the worm sink on somewhat slack line to the top of the bottom grass. Then pull slowly up until your line is taut. Do it a couple of times in the same place then pull it 3' toward you and do it again. Also, jiggle it sometimes, pull fast, pull slow... be as eradic as possible. Vary the speed and stop time. For T-rig, rig the weight and hook the same. This time use a straight shank ( I like the cheap old mustad ultra point in 1/0 or 2/0... depending on the size of the worm) hook and a < 5" straight tailed worm, senko, tiki, frie, etc. Hook it tx-rig on the hook and the opperation is the same... eratic.

Other than that, stick with the flukes, weightless senko, tiki or floatin worms. I really think changing your line will make a big difference!!

I hope this small book helps. You might want to get a few bass magazines and stick em by the crapper. Then everytime you take a dump you'll be killin 2 birds with one stone.

Good Luck and sorry for the length,

Jolly

[Rebbasser]

Welcome to the forum, Jolly!

Always glad to see a fellow Texan join the board.

[WallStreetAmigo]

WOW! Jolly, you came out of nowhere with some great advice. Thank you so much. I have been reading a lot about the drop shot lately. I have to learn to be more patient though, which is very tough! I still get the overwhelming urge to move the bait just for the sake of moving it, which doesn't bode well for a drop shot presentation. I currently have 10lb trilene long cast on my other rod and was thinking I could try the drop shot with that. What do you think?

BTW, I'm getting very frustrated that I cannot find any senko's, flukes, etc in my one horse town. I think I will order some online just to try them out. I will likely order one package of senko's, zoom flukes, etc. What would be the best color for these based on clear, shallow water? I know reb mentioned above the favoured colors but which one would you guys get if you could only buy one color?

[Jolly]

Hey glad I could help. Fishing the drop shot takes a lot of practice and patience but it pays off big. We caught several fish over 10lbs last spawn using it and the year before that I caught a 13 lbder on it using a droshot 4" senko. I get made fun of because I'll use a 7'6'' heavy rod with 14lb line and use a white/clear senko dropshotted using a huge 3/8 or 1/2 oz sinker year around. I may not catch the most fish but the slow presentation seems to really catch the big ones! Also, it will teach you a little humility since it doesn't cover much water quickly. Keep at it!

The 10lb trilene should be fine, but don't get discouraged if you continue to break off on the weeds. I'd rather have bites with light line than nothing with heavy. At least you know you are doing the right thing. If the 10 ends up too light upgrade to some dura tuff 12 or 14. Once you get some more practice you can work your way back down to the 10 or lighter.

For color, We use a white or clear or white spek senko in the 4 or 6" size. The water we fish is clear with a lot of shad so I assume they think it is a dying shad. With the clarity of your water it would depend alot on what type of bait you have in your pond. If there is say bluegill, I would use a darker or motoroil color. If they mainly feed on bottom dwellers darker is better. If I was you I would just get a bag of each shade of color. One clear or white, one medium like motor oil, and one dark like junebug, redshad, or black. Experiment with each and let the fish tell you which one they want.

Here is a website w/ flukes and finesse:

http://www.orderoutdoors.com/zfluke.html

I use the cl silver/black alot but again they feed on shad. At $1.99/10 I'd say that's a pretty good deal!

If you can't find senko's anywhere, we use zoom's straight tail finesse worm, also. They have excellent action but are very soft. Same site, just go to the finesse worm. We also use a generic senko brand but I can't remember the name. I will get it and post back an let you know.

Again, glad I could help!

Jolly

[WallStreetAmigo]

Regarding the baitfish that occupy the lakes I fish, I am still trying to figure that out. I do know that the biggest lake that I fish (and the one that holds the 5 - 10 pound bass I want to catch sooooooooo badly!) contains mainly a diet of perch and sunfish for the big bass to gorge themselves on. The other two smaller lakes seem to have smaller minnow types as the only baitfish that I have been able to see, although I am a newbie at trying to identify baitfish.

Any colors that you guys feel are good imitations of perch and sunfish for use in shallow, clear water would be helpful.

[Vabass22]

Instead of respooling w/ 10-12 pound mono, In ultra clear lakes, I like to use a leader of mono, but mostly I use copolymer, which is less visible. Tie it to your braid, with a blood knot. I would not reccopmend tearing off a whole spool of braid, as it is so expensive.