02-15-10, 05:59 PM | #1 |
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Bassin in Pike infested waters
Naturally I would rather not use a leader at all but where I’m going, fishing for bass means fishing for Pike since the Pike don’t seem to care what I’m after and they’re after anything. If I’m fishing Senkos then I don’t really care if I lose the bait but if I’m fishing Topwaters, Jerks, and Cranks especially some of the more expensive Japanese ones then I’d rather not be feeding them to the Northern. So I want to get some feedback on leaders, swivels and clips, but mostly leaders. I have heard that if I’m going to use a leader then single strand titanium is the way to go. But what would be the best configuration so as 1) not to compromise the movement of the lure, 2) to protect my line and lure from being eaten and 3) to compromise the lure presentation as little as possible? Again along with Senkos, I’ll be using Mepps Aglias, and a variety of Topwaters, Jerks and Cranks. Anyone with experience dealing with this problem? Any recommendations?
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02-15-10, 06:46 PM | #2 |
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Well, I have pike here, but nothing like you do up there. There was a fishing show many years ago that was filmed in Canada. The two guys who hosted the show did not use a wire leader. Instead, they attached a very heavy weight mono leader to their line. I believe it was somewhere around 50 pound and I think they used a blood knot to splice the two together. Then they tied on a ball bearing snap swivel. They claimed that was all they needed to do. Some guys here prefer the uni knot for splicing lines. Frankly I'm not sure if the uni had been invented way back then as I was watching this show back in the 70's. But I saw them catch a lot of pike without bite offs.
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02-15-10, 09:06 PM | #3 |
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I've never used a titanium leader, just old-fashioned steel ones, usually in 5-6" lengths. But I'd probably go longer if I was expecting larger pike. I've never caught a large pike, but I've had an 8# and 7# on topwaters with leaders, the latter coming just last year. I'm also dealing with pickerel, not just pike, and the pickerel are just as adept at cutting line.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't trust a leader of any filament, just metal. I also feel there's more to the issue than losing a lure; I don't want a fish swimming around with a mouthful of hardware, thanks to me. Many people feel that a leader screws up a lure's action. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but I've caught lots of fish on leaders and have confidence when using them.
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02-15-10, 10:27 PM | #4 |
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I haven't tried a wire leader but on some of the lakes up here I think I will next year. Once you get to know some of the lakes you can tell where you want to only throw X-Raps and not Pointers. I have gone to 20# Suffix fluoro leader for pike ice fishing recently so I'll let you know how it holds up. I caught one about 20-22" long so far and he gnawed on it pretty good without a break off.
Sometimes I catch the pike and a lot of times they hit and as soon as you put pressure they are gone. I wonder if those ones eat the bait head first and when you hit them it just shears the line off. I guess it doesn't matter since you can't make them eat tail first. |
02-15-10, 10:30 PM | #5 |
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Good point, Marty. It's easy to forget that while I'm losing a lure, the fish is probably losing its life.
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02-16-10, 11:46 AM | #6 |
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I have a major problem with pike biting off my lipless crankbaits on one of the lakes I fish. The pike seem drawn to a 3" Cotton Cordell Super Spot in Rayburn Red, or any bucktails or spoons in that color for that matter. So I use a leader made of either 25 lb. Trilene Big Game or some 17 lb. P-Line CXX that I'm trying to use up, and have had only one fish bite thru the Big Game. I still catch bass with this leader setup, but not quite as many. The leader is about a foot long and I use a split ring to attach the two lines.
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02-16-10, 11:50 AM | #7 |
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02-16-10, 01:01 PM | #8 |
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ive never had a whole lot of problems fishing with just regular line. ive only lost a few to pike and i was catching 2 to 1 pike to bass on a local lake. i started killing the pike and throwing them on the bank though.
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02-16-10, 01:35 PM | #9 |
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In SD we used to always use a 6" steel leader that had a swivel at the top where the line ties in. Otherwise go with slightly bigger test line like 15-20 and hope for the best. I have seen northern pike chew through some pretty stout line though.
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02-16-10, 09:36 PM | #10 | |
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I've had 20" pike cut 15# braid like a hot knife through butter. I can't imagine a larger pike not being able to cut much heavier line.
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02-16-10, 10:23 PM | #11 | |
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02-17-10, 12:07 AM | #12 |
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When surf fishing for bluefish (every bit as toothy as Pike) I used to just use a 50-60lb mono leader. I had to change it out once in a while, as it would get worn, but I never lost one to their teeth.
I can't say if you'd still catch the bass with that heavy a line, but you'd certainly lose less lures. Worth the trade, I'd think.
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02-17-10, 01:59 AM | #13 |
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I rarely bother to use a leader. On jerkbaits, when fishing pike infested waters, remove all but the rear treble. It changes the action a bit, but not nearly as much as you'd think. And the plug acts as your leader. But you might also just rely a lot more on spinnerbaits. I've caught thousands of pike on spinnerbaits, and have had maybe a dozen bite-offs in 40 some od years of doing it.
Finally, if you MUST use a leader, just tie in a direct one without all the extra hardware. Tyable wire leader. |
02-17-10, 09:06 AM | #14 | ||
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A friend of mine had caught musky on spinnerbaits on 12lb test p-line floroclear. If you decide to go with straight line or just a heavier test leader, make sure you check it often and retie when needed BB
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02-17-10, 09:52 AM | #15 | |
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If you are killing pike on public fishing waters in this manner in PA, you are breaking the law - Wanton Waste, Code 3015, Statute 32-1002, Regulation 115-7-4. Also, pike are subject to a 24" size limit of two statewide and are protected from any take between 1 April and 31 May on some specified waters. As an angler who fishes for many species of freshwater fish including pike, I am disgusted at this kind of behavior. Just because you deem them as an undesirable species does not mean that others don't fish for them. It is also this kind of behavior that gives anglers a bad name in the eyes of non-anglers who see the wasted rotting fish on the bank. Pike are regulated as gamefish - either take them home to eat if they are of legal size or release them as required by law. I fish for bass in pike-water all of the time and I've found that I need no special equipment - I'm just as happy to catch a pike as I am to catch a bass. Unless you know that you are going to catch a high percentage of pike, I would not alter terminal tackle for bass fishing. Otherwise, I agree with the use of heavier lb-test mono or hybrid leaders - I have tried steel leaders in the past and believe that they do affect and interfere with the action of many baits which in turn, reduces bites.
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02-17-10, 10:43 AM | #16 |
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In some areas they were stocked in areas where they were not native without much thought to the environment and now they tend to be the primary and dominant fish... There were 2 lakes in SD where we were required to do the same "kill em as you catch em".
Generally we practice catch and release but some of us also catch and release into a frying pan, so we have all sorts here. |
02-17-10, 02:22 PM | #17 | |
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I don't like this either, but I've only seen it with rough fish. Truth is, it probably doesn't even make a difference, a few fish removed from the water here and there. It just stinks up your fishing hole. People do it near the Mississippi River walking trails in town and it's always gotten on my nerves; people thinking they're helping by tossing carp on the bank to rot in the sun for 3 weeks. |
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02-17-10, 04:10 PM | #18 |
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I don't throw any fish on the bank either. Around my neck of the woods, alot of people tend to do that with Dogfish (Bluefin), but I don't even do it with them.
I plan on doing some big Pike fishing this year, so I'm interested in this thread for sure. Never have problems with 2' Pike and below, but when I go after the big ones, I'll be using some type of leader.
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02-17-10, 06:04 PM | #19 |
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It's great to get your opinions based as they are on real experience. It's clear that, once again, there is no right answer. Damn! I'm thinking what I'll do is try a variety of tactics and see what works. I'll take some titanium leaders and maybe make up a few fluorocarbon ones as well. That doesn't mean I have to use them but if it gets nasty I'll have a couple of options to fall back on and see what works for me.
I can't tell you all what a terrific board this is. You are all very generous with your experience. I've learned an incredible amount in the last 4 months and I do appreciate it. |
02-17-10, 07:02 PM | #20 | |
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02-17-10, 11:58 PM | #21 |
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I think it is just how sharp their teeth are with little regard to line type. I've had them cut braid off just as fast as a knife would. It really depends where they are hooked.
The big ones sure are fun to catch, the hammer handle, slime darts, etc. aren't too much fun especially when they bite you off a lot. Here's a shining example of a giant: That's a 4" worm. These are not fun to catch. |
02-17-10, 11:59 PM | #22 | |
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02-18-10, 09:57 AM | #23 |
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20 lb test titanium leader wire is around .012" in diameter, 30 lb around .014" and so on on up. 8 lb. mono by comparison is around .011" But whereas a pike would go through 8 lb mono like ****e through a goose only trophy pike or musky are likely to bite through 20 lb titanium leader.
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02-18-10, 02:56 PM | #24 | |
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Why the fixation with titanium leader? I can promise you a braided steel leader is far stronger, more resistant to abrasion, and rust in freshwater isn't mush of an issue. It's a well-known phenomenon in the technical community that Titanium is used as a selling point to customers, who just naturally assume it's a superior material. It is less dense that steel, doesn't work harden, and doesn't rust. That's about all it has going for it. On the bad side, it's hellaciously expensive.
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02-18-10, 03:24 PM | #25 | |
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