Bass Fishing HomeBass Fishing Forums

Go Back   BassFishin.Com Forums > Serious Conversation Only > Bass Boats, Trailers & Setups

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-17-09, 04:04 PM   #1
1600TF
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 31
Default Help - new bass boater, engine or planing issues.

Boat is Bass Tracker 1600TF fiberglass boat. Engine is a 110 Johnson power tilt/trim(boat is rated for 115 max). Has stringray hydrofoil on it. Stainless Renegade Bass Prop.

I think im either having motor problems or planing problems..

First off, i always trim all the way down before moving from a stop position.

The engine acts odd at times. Outboard always starts and runs everyday on the water, but i get times when the outboard seems to shake, and then shaking disappears and it runs great after several runs.

In neutral, the outboard revs high just fine. But when in gear moving forward, i run into times where i try to gun it WOT to get out the hole and the engine will only get to 3000rpm and bow is straight up in air, and then if i back off and attempt several retries, it will finally eventually climb into the higher rpms to get boat on plane, and once it planes she has no problems at all moving and boat runs excellent.

This planing off issue and engine rpm problem happens intermittently and i'm wondering if my engine is the problem, the setup or the prop is the cause. Would the wrong prop cause this type of problem with rpms or planing? And how do i tell what kind of prop pitch or what not it is? Is their some kind of marking on it that i can report back to you all?

This is my first bass boat so i am new to all of this, but i am mechanically inclined to fix this and have the OMC manual to test the engine if i need to go that far into engine tuning.

Planing off the boat seems to always take at least 7-10 secs to finally plane off even when i feel outboard is running good and dont have any issues coming up on plane. Is this normal or should i be planing off sooner with the engine setup i have?

I plan to take pictures of the motor setup and how its rigged on the boat so i can get some bass boat experts to help me cure this problem. I'm hoping 1FastLaser comes in here, he seems to be the most knowledgeable about these types of issues. Please help and hello guys.
1600TF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-09, 06:58 AM   #2
1FASTLASER
BassFishin.Com Super Veteran
 
1FASTLASER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: crossett,arkansas
Posts: 2,777
Default

Ok bud without knowing a few numbers its a little hard to give you a recommend. SO what I need is........when the boat does get up and run what are your MAX rpms (WOT rpms) and what is your speed.....preferably a GPS speed. Also need to know what size that prop is. I know the OMC's engines pretty well as well as the tracker glass boat u are referring to. Also need to know what hole the motor is mounted to on the transom.

Next thing I need to know about is when it starts to shake is it at idle........mid throttle or wide open when it starts its shaking????? Answer these and I can get a whole lot closer on the fix. As far as numbers on the prop look down the barrel...........just behind the nut and you should see the numbers stamped on the outside of the hub. If not take it off and turnit around could be on that end. Should be something like 13 1/2 x 23p
__________________
Laser's rule with Merc's doing the pushing..........KEEP THE WETSIDE DOWN AND THE DRY SIDE UP!!!!!!
1FASTLASER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-09, 10:40 AM   #3
1600TF
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 31
Default

i dont have a gps, but i know WOT when it's running good and on plane, my speedometer read 40-45 mph when trimmed good. If i recall correctly rpms are at 5200 at that speed, but i am not positive since i noticed sometimes the rpms gauge might not be reading accurately as i've noticed it bouncing oddly at times when i know i should be over a certain rpm at a particular speed. Might be a bad wire.

I'll need to test it again on the water and bring back numbers to you by the end of the week. I'll pull the prop and get you the numbers on it as well.

Once thing i did notice is that the nut the secures the Stainless Steel prop is loose. and i can twist it with my fingers and it moves slightly. The only thing holding it from twisting off is the cotter pin. Is it supposed to be that loose? The original owner said NEVER tighten that nut. I am reluctant to believe him, since he also told me NEVER EVER remove the transom plug when i first bought the boat from him.

I'll get pics of my setup and number on prop and all this weekend when i get a chance to pull her out again.

Thanks
1600TF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-09, 11:11 AM   #4
nofearengineer
BassFishin.Com Premier Elite
 
nofearengineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southwest IN
Posts: 5,630
Default

Haha....well, I'm not positive that's 100% of your problem, but it sure the heck isn't good. That nut should be tight. Not "welded on" tight, but definitely not finger tight. The cotter pin is supposed to keep it the nut from backing off, not holding the prop on. Easy way to break a cotter pin and lose a prop.
__________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
nofearengineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-09, 11:42 AM   #5
jasonfish320
BassFishin.Com Veteran Member
 
jasonfish320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MAINEIAC
Posts: 585
Default

Another thought, which happened to me...make sure your boat is balanced, if you've got all your batteries and the majority of the weight in the rear of the boat(even worse with full livewells) with no anchors or sand bags(it's what i used) up front somewhere to help you balance it will always stand straight up and take more time to plane out...once I had my engine/lower unit adjusted to the pad (listen to laser on this one) I was still having a slow hole shot..so I re-arranged my trolling batteries to the front of the boat (I had the extra storage to do so) and HELLO..she lifts maybe 3-4 feet and has been great!

Also, I used to own a '89 1800TF http://www.bassfishin.com/bassfishin...ight=poli+glow with a 150HP and it was a great boat and had a GPS of 62MPH
__________________
"If at first you don't succeed; have another beer"
jasonfish320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-09, 05:03 PM   #6
1600TF
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 31
Default

13 1/4 X 21 is the numbers etched on the 4 blade Renegade Bass SS prop.

I'll tighten the prop nut as well. Any idea the torque spec that i should tight to?
1600TF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-09, 05:48 PM   #7
nofearengineer
BassFishin.Com Premier Elite
 
nofearengineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southwest IN
Posts: 5,630
Default

1600, I have an 18' aluminum Tracker (probably around the same weight as your 16' fiberglass, glass boats are usually a little heavier than aluminum) with a 115 on the back. I have a 13-1/4 x 20 stainless prop. I have had the same difficulty in getting on plane on a couple of occasions. Both of those times, the boat was seriously overloaded with fat fishermen, and 350 lbs of livewell water.

Your prop is one inch higher than mine, which would make it slightly harder to get out of the hole, on a similarly sized motor, like you have. Is your motor older; i.e. maybe not cranking out a true 115 hp anymore?

Did you have the livewell(s) full when you had the problem?

I still think if your boat is rated for 115 hp it should get up on plane, even if loaded a bit...just thought I'd throw some maybe's out there.
__________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.
nofearengineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-09, 06:24 AM   #8
1FASTLASER
BassFishin.Com Super Veteran
 
1FASTLASER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: crossett,arkansas
Posts: 2,777
Default

Allright goin back and rereadingthere is definately a problem here .......we just gotta figure out where its at........with that foil and that prop.............if the engine is running correctly....that boat oughta have a hard holeshot. One thing that I DO NOT like is the low rpms at WOT. Thats an indication your prop is TOO BIG. Now dont fret ..that can be remedied. That Renegade is a great prop.....you can have it pitched down. But before we get involved in that I need to know where the motor is bolted...ie What set of holes that is, You may not have to do anything but move the motor up if she is too deep. Get a pic or lemme know on where she is mounted and I will comment further.
__________________
Laser's rule with Merc's doing the pushing..........KEEP THE WETSIDE DOWN AND THE DRY SIDE UP!!!!!!
1FASTLASER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-09, 01:08 PM   #9
ally260
BassFishin.Com Member
 
ally260's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ft. Worth, Tx
Posts: 97
Default

1Fast, Sounds like he may have one those "3" clyinder OMC's instead of 4 ..........T
ally260 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-09, 05:07 PM   #10
1600TF
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 31
Default

1600TF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-09, 05:10 PM   #11
1600TF
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 31
Default

here is how my motor is setup. does anything look off/completely wrong?

if i do have to play around and move my motor up a bit, will i have to drill new mounting holes into the transom? hope i dont, i dont feel comfy having to drill new holes into her. The boat is in pretty good shape.


Last edited by 1600TF; 08-19-09 at 05:21 PM.
1600TF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-09, 10:49 PM   #12
MississippiBoy
BassFishin.Com Super Veteran
 
MississippiBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ridgeland MS
Posts: 3,923
Default

No, you won't have to drill new holes. In the bottom pic, you see that bolt on the far left coming out through the transom, with 3 holes below it? That's what's holding the motor to the boat, and determines the height of your motor. Then at the bottom, you see the head of that bolt going into the transom, with the slot it's in extending below it? That also holds to motor on, and if you loosen that bolt some, it'll slide in that slot, letting you adjust the height while leaving the motor still attached to the boat.
Don't adjust anything on there until Laser or someone else very knowledgable gets back with you...I'm not a boat guy, I just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. But the motor right now is as low as it can get. If Laser is thinking it might be too deep, he'll let you know how far up to raise it.
__________________
I smell smoke, and I hear sirens. Do you think that's a problem?
MississippiBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-09, 11:46 PM   #13
1600TF
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 31
Default

ahhh, yeah i see how it adjusts now. thanks for the help. i have an engine hoist, so i should be able to adjust this once i get some more info and guidance from 1fastlaser and the others who have helped here.

btw i have like 3 separate aluminum props the original owner gave to me when he sold the boat to me, but they are all in bad shape, all dinged up and chewed up. Would it be worth it to swap them out and see if it makes any difference in acclerating and planing with these other props?
1600TF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-09, 06:40 AM   #14
1FASTLASER
BassFishin.Com Super Veteran
 
1FASTLASER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: crossett,arkansas
Posts: 2,777
Default

Right now my DEEP ALARM IS SCREAMING!!!! WAY TO DEEP buddy.Ok first things first.......I if it where my boat would raise her up all the way to the last hole. Then before sealing up the holes..siliconing the bolts that is Take a measurement of pad to shaft center. I have outlined several times on here how to do it...do a search on it and you will see what I am talking bout. 3 1/2" is gonna be real close for that rig ...if she is a tad higher thats ok. Thats what I would do first. Actually I would bolt her in the last hole and thenprop it for that height. You do have a water pressure gauge right?????? If you wanna be safe and do the move just once put her on the next to last bolts. Just remeber the higher you go the more concience you have to be of water pressure. Dont let it get below 13-15. Ifn ya need any more info before you start moving the motor just holler.
__________________
Laser's rule with Merc's doing the pushing..........KEEP THE WETSIDE DOWN AND THE DRY SIDE UP!!!!!!
1FASTLASER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-09, 10:42 AM   #15
fishen green
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63
Default

Hello I am new to this forum (love it) I work for Marine Engine . com

I also want point out that your port side ( left side ) trim piston is not functioning
fishen green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-09, 12:10 PM   #16
1600TF
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 31
Default

fishen green, the piston does work, when i set the transom saver on to keep it sturdy on the motor, i let that piston go all the way down before stopping. Thats what the previous owner told me to do, but now i dont know if that is correct, since everything he's told me to do has been completely wrong. So what the correct procedure when you go to put the transom saver on? where should the trim piston be set when i put the transom saver on.


1fastlaser, i'll look into the measurement of pad to shaft center in the archives. Since my setup is wrong, is this affecting more of my planing issues or my rpms issues of not going higher than 3k?

Water pressure gauge, well i have one, but i looked for the tube that is supposed to be hooked up on the outboard and its no longer there. I could've swore the gauge was working when i test drove the boat prior to buying it. I'll try to see if i can find parts at my local marine place to fix this. Otherwise, can i get parts from home depot or some marine shop to fix this?

Sounds like i will definitely be moving the engine very soon. I have an engine hoist and the omc manual, i hope most of this procedure is covered in the manual. Where is the best place to hook onto the outboard for the hoist to support it? Any tips or things to watch out for before raising the outboard is helpful.

Thanks everyone, i'll keep updating as i get this done.
1600TF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-09, 12:29 PM   #17
fishen green
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63
Default

eee,

I would suggest to only let the motor come to a rest because continuing to run while one piston is stopped making the relief valve open (wick its supposed to do ) but not for continuous duty .
fishen green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-09, 01:03 PM   #18
1600TF
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 31
Default

gotcha. thanks for the info.

I also got off the phone with my local marine shop here in WI and i gave them a description of my problem and gave them my prop numbers and the tech said my prop is way to big for my rig, he suggested running a 19 pitch. If its better for me to go that route instead of raising my engine to get better holeshot, thats to me sounds like an easier task. What do you guys think? Will that be a waste of money? Is the tech suggesting the right thing to do?
1600TF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-09, 01:49 PM   #19
fishen green
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63
Default

well See if this helps you
the rule of thumb is for every 2 degrees of prop you + or - your rpms by 400 also with a normal load and drive you should be close to 5500 rpm's not over I attached a prop calc.
http://www.boatpropellers.com/propcalc.html

I have a 18.5 skeeter with a 140 zuki with a full tank of gas and full live well 2 people and gear I cannot get out of the hole. I run 5800 and I am over reving so in theriy I am under proped (19 degrees) I installed a hydro foil and now I can plain ok.

my skeeter is weighted mainly in the back of my boat if I propped to aid in getting out of the hole in my case I would way be under propped so take your time and trust your rpm I need to trim all the way down to help pull me up when that loaded
fishen green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-09, 09:02 PM   #20
1600TF
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 31
Default

also, trying to fix my water pressure gauge, i need to see if its still on the outboard, i took the cowling off today and looked around. I didn't see any lines/tube coming out of the block for the water pressure or speedmeter?

Any tips on where to look? I saw the tell tail/pee shooter tube and where it goes to the back of the block. Would that be where i would tap for the water pressure gauge?

Also while in there, i pulled the spark plugs to see what kind of condition they were in. I noticed oil on the threads and around the area where the plugs get screwed in, sorta like leaking, but not to the point where its dripping, is that normal? The motor is still running VRO, so i assume this is just the oil mixing with the gas? i hope so, hehe.

Sorry for all the questions, but i'm learning alot here.

Last edited by 1600TF; 08-20-09 at 09:13 PM.
1600TF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-09, 05:55 AM   #21
1FASTLASER
BassFishin.Com Super Veteran
 
1FASTLASER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: crossett,arkansas
Posts: 2,777
Default

Even though the prop MAY and I say that lightly because you might still be able to run the renegade are still way to deep for the motor to reach correct rpms when running full throttle. Personally I would get that motor up before evn thinking about starting to switch props around. Rule of thumb: First things first and one problem at a time is the way I do it. On where to attach a lifting devive.........you pull the hood off....on top of the flywheel there are 3 holes. Thats where you atach a device. I use a old 3 eared steering wheel puller that I have a screw eye attached in the center of instead of the screw used for pulling. I have also used chokers(nylon) ones that we use int he construction business.
__________________
Laser's rule with Merc's doing the pushing..........KEEP THE WETSIDE DOWN AND THE DRY SIDE UP!!!!!!
1FASTLASER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-09, 09:18 AM   #22
fishen green
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63
Default

I agree with 1fastlaser and I want to add that understanding your motor and its relative position to tour transom is important as well as I do not believe that motor placement is your only issue. but he is right first things first.

I would think that if you bought a lower pitch prop $$$ placed it on and you came out of the hole like you want BUT from that point on went slow and had to down throttle to keep your engine in rpm range you would still be unhappy.
fishen green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-09, 01:35 PM   #23
1600TF
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 31
Default

one thing i want to note is that i went out to measure distance from cavitation plate to the pad and when trimmed down all the way(i havent raised the engine yet), it is pretty much flush with one another. If i do raise the engine, this will obviously created a gap of probably a 2-3 inches between the two. This will be ok right?
1600TF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-09, 08:22 AM   #24
1FASTLASER
BassFishin.Com Super Veteran
 
1FASTLASER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: crossett,arkansas
Posts: 2,777
Default

Hmmmmmm.....something going on here if your saying the center of prop shaft is flush with the pad. Did you do a search and see how I have outlined doing a Measurement.if not here ya go.


First park boat on concrete and preferably as level as concrete as you can find. Now having a level and a measuring tape you can begin. A buddy giving ya a hand makes this a quick simple job.
Using the trailer jack you or your bud must operate the jack while the other holds the level on the REAR most portion of the pad as FAR back as possible and on the CENTER of the pad.
Now when this is done you can move on to step 2 which is trim the motor down and level it. Place the level on the cavatation plate....the plate right above the prop.... and level the motor.
Now all you have to do is get the measurment from PROPSHAFT CENTER.......the center of the bullet on the nose of the lower unit......to the CENTE of the pad AT THE BOTTOM. What I do is take the level and put it on the center of the pad.....extending the level towards the bullet....then take the tape and hook it on the top of the level and measure down to the point of the bullet.

Right off the top of my head.....by looking at your pics you should be around 5 1/2"....unlessthat boat has an odd transom measurement.
__________________
Laser's rule with Merc's doing the pushing..........KEEP THE WETSIDE DOWN AND THE DRY SIDE UP!!!!!!
1FASTLASER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-09, 12:32 PM   #25
1600TF
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 31
Default

be back with measurements soon and pics.
1600TF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Disclosure / Disclaimer
Before acting on the content posted, you should know that BassFishin.Com may benefit financially and otherwise from content, advertising, links or otherwise from anything you click on, read, or look at on our website. Click here to read our Disclosure Policy and Disclaimer.


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2013 BassFishin.Com LLC