Is Shimano going to pot?

[Tavery5]

Shimano does not keep parts for reels once they have been discontinued for 5 years (correct me if I am wrong Kevin), most of the parts are not too difficult to find through the aftermarket retailers, but they get a good price and as Kevin experienced, they often kill you on shipping.

A good condition Bantam Curado B can still bring in the neighborhood of 65-75 dollars, with the SF Super Free version getting a little more.

[justbassin4fun]

Originally Posted by DVT Mike

The Curado is still very much the same reel with the same basic design and materials. Only a few minor upgrades seperate the Curado from the Chronarch (last yrs Curado). The assertion thst the new Curado is "junk" comes from mispercetion and misunderstanding of Shimanos marketing strategy as far as model names go. Bottom line is Curado is once again an affordable workhorse reel and the Chronarch is a little more refined version. This is just as it was with the B & D series.

I have heard many say the g series is less robust(I'm actually being nice as some have said much worst) as the e series reels(both the Curado and the Citica). After disassembling my Citica e and Citica g. They seem very similar on the inside. About the only thing that is drastically different is the chassis. I have some added faith that my g series citica and newly acquired Curado should be as dependable as the Citica e has been.

My only complaint is the odd noise I get upon engaging the reel after a cast(kind of a clunk sound-with and odd ring every now and then). I scored my Curado g real cheap because a friend couldn't stand the sound. Besides that they both cast well and do all that I ask of them.

[DVT Mike]

Originally Posted by Tavery5

Mike, I am confused by what you are saying. Are you making the statement that this years Curado, the Curado G ,is the Same reel, design and material as the Chronarch E. Or are you comparing the Curado E to the Chronarch E?

Sorry for not being clear. The Curado E and Chronach E are virtually the same reel except for a carbon fiber drag washer under the main gear and maybe some anodizing. The next point was that there is not all that much difference between the Curado G and Chronarch E to make one "junk" and the other exceptional. The frame, clutch etc is the same. My third point was that the relationship between models has been restored to what it was traditionally prior to the E series Curado. I don't lobby for one brand over another and I'm not trying to defend Shimano, just sharing my observations.

[pro reel]

Here is my 2 cents on the line up change. 1st off, one the things that most shimano l;overs were so proud of and were always quick to point out was that they were made in Japan instead of other countries with less of a reputation. Many would point out that reovs were built in Korea and that they were therefore inferior in craftmanship to Japan built reels. Was there some truth to that or not? Who could really say? Anyway, even at that time, shimano had already moved the productio of most of there reels to other countries. The main lineup of casting reels were still made in Japan. One indication of the inferier craftmanship of other countries might be to go back to all the problems shimano had with the first runs of the Curado D, which was built in Maylaisia. When they introduced the E model reels, they went back to Japan built reels for the main line up of casting reels. With the introduction of the G model reels, they have returned to Maylasia manufacture for cheaper labor. I have no idea if more people are actually having warranty issues with the G reels than what they had with the E reels, but it certanly seems that more people are being vocal about issues of quality with the G reels. The return to Maylasia manufacrure may prove to be a mistake once again, time will tell.
As for the actuall quality of the G series reels, if you don't compare them to the E series reels that had the same names, then they are absolutly fine. The problem with that is that we have all come to expect that products get better with new editions instead of going backwards. Shimano has a point that they are simply returning the curado and citica to a reel of about the same level it was in the past. If you compare the features, bearing count etc of the G series to the original B series reels, you will see that they are similar. Had Shimano never introduced the D and E curados and went from the B to the BSF and then to This G reel, many might think that the G was a nice model with some decent improvments in materials.
I think that it's going to take a lot of time for most to get over this changeup. We saw the chronarch B go from just a slightly fanncier version of the Curado with the B series reels to a premier reel that was a big leap up in design over the curado with the D series chronarchs. We saw the Curado distance itself from the Citica only to have the citca get quite close again with e E series reels, we now have a Chronarch that isn't even close to the same reel as it was as it is now just a white version of the Curado E. We now have a Curado thats built in Maylasia on a Canean frame and it now has regresed to about the same features as it had 20 years ago, but it's doubtful it will come anywhere close to being revered on the same level as the B series was.
Personally, I think Shimano would have been better off just starting with new names for these new reels and leaving the curado E alone with a price increase if that was needed.

[Crankbait]

Originally Posted by pro reel

Skeeter, every brand of reel there is and every model of reel that is made by each brand can and does have several that have problems occur. There is no such thing as a bullet proof brand. Many shimano lovers like to claim that there reels have never failed them. many Daiwa, Abu, Pfluger and on and on owners like to claim the same thing. The fact is that every one of these companies have a very large and busy warranty center, and a very busy parts sales for after warranty care and repair. They are machines and machines break and wear out. Having worked on a lot of reels from every major brand, i can say with the utmost confidence, they all make some very good reels and they all make some duds and they all have some weak areas that could have been designed better. With that being said, your E series curados are normally very good reels. Yes, I have seen several that had small issues where there was a factory defect such as a spring not installed correctly or a pawl that should have had one more spacer to eliminate slop that leads to increased wear. But 99% of all problems I see in most of the mid level to high end reels from every brand is usually a direct result of normal wear and tear or a lack of a care. Part of the problem is that none of the major brands have done a good job of letting the customer know just how much care these reels actually need. I'm sorry to say it, but if you ever drove down the highway or even a residential black top road with those reels laying in the back of the truck and if those reels were not in a sealed tight reel case, then they got wind blown grit on them and in the worm gear. That worm gear has grease on it and grease is a magnet for any grit that gets close to it. Even the cleanest truck there is will still have a fine layer of dust inside the bed. Then there is all the dust in the air. If you have to drive with reels in an open area, put them in in sealed reel covers or make youyr own with clean trash bags. A small drawstring bag will enclose the handle and the reel snugly. One thing I like to tell my customers is that they should treat there reels with the same exact care they would treat a high end firearm. Keep them clean and oiled. Don't get them wet or if they do get wet clean them and re oil them after every use, and don't let them get dirty.

Spoken from the gospel!

[Tavery5]

Originally Posted by DVT Mike

Sorry for not being clear. The Curado E and Chronach E are virtually the same reel except for a carbon fiber drag washer under the main gear and maybe some anodizing. The next point was that there is not all that much difference between the Curado G and Chronarch E to make one "junk" and the other exceptional. The frame, clutch etc is the same. My third point was that the relationship between models has been restored to what it was traditionally prior to the E series Curado. I don't lobby for one brand over another and I'm not trying to defend Shimano, just sharing my observations.

Thanks for clearing it up, I have not tried the G series reels yet, but have looked at the schematics many times. They are similar in design to the E series reels, most of the difference is the frame is based on the Caenan rather than the E-series design. I agree, on paper it is hard to see why one would be a lot better than the other. I can see the argument about ergonomics, but if you leave politics out of the matter, I cant see why the G would not be a good reel.'

[arfish]

Another crazy thing is that on Ebay, the Curado E series are going for over 200 bucks (there are some left handed models going for less) right now and there aren't a lot of them available. A year ago you could pick one up easily for under 130. People must be grabbing them up quick.

[arfish]

Also what about Shimano's spinning reel issues. They have a bad reputation of binding up. What causes that, and is it something that can be fixed?
Recently I switch over to Pflueger spinning reels, and they have been good so far.

[pro reel]

Originally Posted by arfish

Also what about Shimano's spinning reel issues. They have a bad reputation of binding up. What causes that, and is it something that can be fixed?
Recently I switch over to Pflueger spinning reels, and they have been good so far.

Shimano uses a rubber gasket or large O-Ring on the front of the frame behind the rotor. The ring is called a friction washer. It puts just enough friction on the inside of the rotor to keep it from turning while you cast. The reason they need this is because if the rotor turns during a cast, it can turn enough to hit the trip lever and snap the bail closed. Thas what it's for. Now the problem is that all of the ones they used up until last year were a black rubber that swells up and turns gummy. It then rubs all the time and binds the reel. It can get so bad that it chews itself into pieces and jams everything. The replacement part is a blue gasket that seems to be made of a denser material. You would think that it would be a recall or extended warranty issue, or at least offer the part for free replacment, but they didn't do that.

[arfish]

Originally Posted by pro reel

Shimano uses a rubber gasket or large O-Ring on the front of the frame behind the rotor. The ring is called a friction washer. It puts just enough friction on the inside of the rotor to keep it from turning while you cast. The reason they need this is because if the rotor turns during a cast, it can turn enough to hit the trip lever and snap the bail closed. Thas what it's for. Now the problem is that all of the ones they used up until last year were a black rubber that swells up and turns gummy. It then rubs all the time and binds the reel. It can get so bad that it chews itself into pieces and jams everything. The replacement part is a blue gasket that seems to be made of a denser material. You would think that it would be a recall or extended warranty issue, or at least offer the part for free replacment, but they didn't do that.

That makes sense, thanks.

Do you know if the new Shimano spinning reels that came out this year, like the Sahara FE and Symetre FL, have this problem anymore?

[USMCbassman]

Originally Posted by arfish

Another crazy thing is that on Ebay, the Curado E series are going for over 200 bucks (there are some left handed models going for less) right now and there aren't a lot of them available. A year ago you could pick one up easily for under 130. People must be grabbing them up quick.

Yep, I've been watching a curado on eBay that still has 6 days left on it and the price is already above 160. I have scoured and scoured craigslists country wide and there are quite a few E series curados for sell at a decent price. The problem I've ran into in contacting these folks (Texas, Michigan, Alabama and Florida) is that they don't want to separate the rod from the reel. They're more than willing to ship the rod and reel to location, but the price goes right out the door when it comes to shipping the rod.

[Bubba_Bruiser]

People loaded up on the E series when you could get them for under $100 & when the news of the G was coming out. Everyone was barking it was inferior with the same price tag, Malay built, etc.... Now they are making some sweet profits IMO.

[arfish]

Originally Posted by USMCbassman

Yep, I've been watching a curado on eBay that still has 6 days left on it and the price is already above 160. I have scoured and scoured craigslists country wide and there are quite a few E series curados for sell at a decent price. The problem I've ran into in contacting these folks (Texas, Michigan, Alabama and Florida) is that they don't want to separate the rod from the reel. They're more than willing to ship the rod and reel to location, but the price goes right out the door when it comes to shipping the rod.

I'm starting to think my next reel will probably be a Chronarch E series. They are on average cheaper than an E series Curado reel and I like that they have a 6.5:1 ratio model. Now if they would just come down in price on Ebay like the Curado E series were a few years ago...
I've found the key to CL is to not just scour it, but do it often, at least a couple times a day unless I'm out fishing or doing family stuff. The good deals don't last long, first person gets it. Also I've found some good reels in the "boat" section, instead of "sporting". So I always look through it as well.

[USMCbassman]

Originally Posted by arfish

I'm starting to think my next reel will probably be a Chronarch E series. They are on average cheaper than an E series Curado reel and I like that they have a 6.5:1 ratio model. Now if they would just come down in price on Ebay like the Curado E series were a few years ago...
I've found the key to CL is to not just scour it, but do it often, at least a couple times a day unless I'm out fishing or doing family stuff. The good deals don't last long, first person gets it. Also I've found some good reels in the "boat" section, instead of "sporting". So I always look through it as well.

Hear ya there, been watching those on eBay as well and just like you waiting for the price to come down. If I could find a local spot to get my hands on a Lew's Tourny Pro Speed Spool, I may swap over to them. They're about 20 or so below retail on eBay. Depending on your location in AR they may not be to far from you, they're in Springfield, MO. Yeah, I'm on CL's multiple times a day (I use searchtempest.com so I can pull all ads across the US at the same time). I always use the "all sale/wanted" section. I'll give the boat section a shot as well....

[pro reel]

I would assume the newest reels have the new type friction washer. I have not worked on a new one yet, so i can't say for sure.

[bassinbob]

Try getting a used Chronarch 50mg for under $200. I remember when they were discounting them. I should have bought a couple more. I bought 3 Citica E's and like them better than the Curado E's.

[Tavery5]

Originally Posted by bassinbob

Try getting a used Chronarch 50mg for under $200. I remember when they were discounting them. I should have bought a couple more. I bought 3 Citica E's and like them better than the Curado E's.

What do you like better about the Citica?

[Bender]

Originally Posted by bassinbob

Try getting a used Chronarch 50mg for under $200.

I'm a little curious about why they make model changes so frequently. I suppose that they can increase profit by reducing the production costs and raising the price each time. I sure wish that they made the 50Mg again, that's probably my favorite reel. I don't have any Core's though.

[DVT Mike]

Originally Posted by Bubba_Bruiser

People loaded up on the E series when you could get them for under $100 & when the news of the G was coming out. Everyone was barking it was inferior with the same price tag, Malay built, etc.... Now they are making some sweet profits IMO.

I said when the E's were clearance priced that those folks were nuts. I'd have sat on them and sold them at the higher price now. Shops were probably afraid of getting stuck with the "old" models. I took adavantage and got a 201E Curado new for $99. It's in service on a jig/worm rod.

[USMCbassman]

Originally Posted by Bender

I'm a little curious about why they make model changes so frequently. I suppose that they can increase profit by reducing the production costs and raising the price each time. I sure wish that they made the 50Mg again, that's probably my favorite reel. I don't have any Core's though.

I suppose it's like the car world, look at the F-150 and the numerous changes it has gone through since 2008 alone. Reels manufacturers are probably the same, they somewhat listen to their customer base and try to implement changes according to their expressed desires. I'm sure there were a lot of people complaining about the price of the E series curado when it came out. So Shimano said we'll fix this or due to price increase in the manufacturing process, parts, labor, etc Shimano had to make a call to keep the prices relatively the same to [what they would hope] help them maintain their customer database.

That's just my assumption as I don't work in this part of the business or the civilian sector period...LOL. So I may be literally talking out my @$$

[Jrob78]

You can find new Cores on Ebay for under $300, I would definitely go that route before spending $200 on a Curado E or Chronarch E for that matter.