Tying on Vs. snap swivel

[nofearengineer]

Vegas, you are misunderstanding me. The swivel doesn't cause, or even allow, the lure to spin. It only allows the line to not spin. The line alone , swivel or not, does not have enough torsional resistance to keep a lure from spinning. If it did, it would never get twisted up.

[walkeraviator]

Originally Posted by Vegasspider

Tie, and then do whatever you want as long as you tie… I would be curious to know what manufactures recommendations are? I am willing to bet they say tie.

There are benefits and special needs that require snaps etc. however, as NF points when torque sets in and the crank bait wants to spin, a snap allows the spinning momentum to continue. I think it is too risky to use snaps. I have not timed myself tieing vs. using a snap - but I would say the extra time spent all be it maybe 2-3 more seconds is worth the peace of mind knowing your tied on not snapped on. I cannot say I have ever had a snap failure but then again I do not use them.

Storm wiggle warts come from teh factory with snaps instead of split rings so i guess they dont mind snaps instead of tying...

i can tie a palomar faster than i can use a snap.. so thats what i do.

[Vegasspider]

I have seen those Storms. I would still wonder on a broad scale what they have to say.

Originally Posted by walkeraviator

Storm wiggle warts come from teh factory with snaps instead of split rings so i guess they dont mind snaps instead of tying...

i can tie a palomar faster than i can use a snap.. so thats what i do.

[Vegasspider]

OK well if the line is spinning vs. the lure does not matter you have a spin. I am talking about snaps not swivels so maybe the difference in opinions. (I have not taken the time to go back and read all the post in this thread but I think there are references to both snaps and snaps with swivels. I am only referring to snaps)To me two big differences as I have a use for swivels. If a snap allows a spin to continue then it makes for a big mess in both action and presentation. I guess I would also question, what is the correct knot and method for tying a snap?

I did see an article in the past that braid twist compared to mono was actually a good thing. I can see the properties of braid allowing twist in a more controlled setting whereas mono would still be a mess. In other words with minimal twist in braid you could keep going for a limited time whereas mono the twist would be instant trouble.

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Vegas, you are misunderstanding me. The swivel doesn't cause, or even allow, the lure to spin. It only allows the line to not spin. The line alone , swivel or not, does not have enough torsional resistance to keep a lure from spinning. If it did, it would never get twisted up.

[nofearengineer]

Sigh...

I'm trying to get the point across that a snap or a swivel does not "allow a spin to continue." It's not like the crank tips to one side, and if there's a snap or a swivel there, it keeps on tipping. This is a very commonly held errant belief that needs to be put to bed. The lure is going to do what it's going to do with or without a snap or swivel.

[Vegasspider]

As my kid would say OMG! Everyone, NF is saying snaps or swivels does not allow a crank to spin nor does it keep it spinning should spinning occur. Way too much thought on this subject and it is making my head hurt. Too many dynamics to dissect. I can promise you NF you and I have not even come close to testing all of the relative data vs. dynamics on this matter nor is it important for me to do in order to establish what works for me. <Which by the way is the only thing I tend to care about now a days. This whole economy thing and President disappointments (I can say I have noticed a change since he became the man in charge, boy have I noticed a change), Jesse James is cheating on Sandra, Tiger is now a Cheetah -------Just too much to handle. But at the end of the day I prefer to tie and not snap. All of my baits have a signed notarized agreement with me that says so… In fact when I buy new baits I always ask, tied or snapped? (Kind of like paper or plastic question) If the sales person does not agree with me– I stand there and argue with them until they do. It’s just how I am wired, educated and well probably the reason I don’t have many friends. NF will you be my friend? I am guessing the Engineer in you makes it more important to point out certain details that you find important vs. what I am thinking not what is actually happen? Am I correct? I was only trying to say, I prefer to tie because in “my” experience it seems to me that cranks seem to roll when I use a clip. So I don’t use them on my crank or jerk baits. But if I was, maybe there is a better knot to use etc.

I would still only like to know two things and then my life is complete on this subject. They are:

What is the correct knot for which variable is the correct one to tie if one so chooses a snap vs. a direct tie? (I would not mind doing an unbiased poll with them to find out as long as it does not need to be done overnight)

What do the majority of crank and jerk bait manufactures recommend on the subject?

Are there not a few manufacture people that hang out on this site?

[nofearengineer]

Haha, Vegas...I'm not trying to come down on you. I actually appreciate that you prefer to just tie on. I respect that.

However, my mission in life (other than pi$$ing everyone off ) is to spread the gospel of scientific knowledge and understanding, so that people don't just make the right decisions...they make the right decisions for the right reasons. For instance, in this case, you might re-evaluate what seemed to be the reason your baits were "rolling." Perhaps you might find it was something else, and thus be enlightened further in your pursuit of the Angling Arts. See? I was actually trying to do you a solid!!
Sorry man.

(By the way, I'm right there with you on all of those non-fishing issues you mentioned.)

[Vegasspider]

You will be pleased to know I called three bait companies. 2 out of 3 said a small clip on jerk baits, cigar type shapes etc “should” use a small non-swivel clip. One said they only test with a clip. So maybe I need to rethink those styles for my own use. It reduces wear and tear and allows for 100% natural movement. If using the tie method the smallest cinch knot you can tie is recommend as it stabilizes the bait. They all agree if bait is rolling something else is in play. I just never had a bait roll that I can remember. Unless of course the line is in the hooks etc.

[Safebet]

Well, I'm thoroughly confused now. I think I just snapped my swivel. I don't know whether to tie, or use a clip, snap swivel, or both. I think in order to be safe, I'll just tie to the bait leaving a long leader, then add a swivel and a snap at the end. Maybe the combined weight will make the lure straighten up if it's rolling to the right, unless of course, the snap and swivel are on the right, in which case I will have to turn 180 degress and reel from the otherway.

I'm really confused. Lol

[BassFeverJohn]

I use duolocks always. I fish with braid and I don't always have something to cut it with. I tried the coastlock type recently but they are way too hard to open and close, hurt my fingers.

I should add that it is very important to tie a fresh knot every time you go fishing, and after a big bass or hard snag. I tie mine with a palomar/cnich every time. With the braid that knot combo is so strong I'll break the hook or the rod before the line snaps.

[BassFeverJohn]

The thing that bothers me is not the retying. It's cutting the old knots off of my lures!

[Captmikestarrett]

My bad.... wrong name it is called perfection loop. It can be tied in the dark with a rib in your mouth.

http://www.netknots.com/html/non_slip_loop_knot.html

Capt Mike

[gottafish]

Tie directly to it. Snap is just one more thing that can go wrong. I can tie a Palomar knot on just about anything except maybe a hard stick bait. Just as fast as a snap with a little practice.

[nofearengineer]

Originally Posted by Captmikestarrett

My bad.... wrong name it is called perfection loop. It can be tied in the dark with a rib in your mouth.

http://www.netknots.com/html/non_slip_loop_knot.html

Capt Mike

Interesting knot, Cap'n. Looks a bit similar to the Rapala Knot. I'm pretty sure I couldn't tie it in the dark, but the rib would be fine.

[Vegasspider]

This is a good knot. I have used it and NF try tying it in the dark I bet you will see you can do it.

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Interesting knot, Cap'n. Looks a bit similar to the Rapala Knot. I'm pretty sure I couldn't tie it in the dark, but the rib would be fine.