Another Way of Thinking

nofearengineer · 06-15-09, 05:59 PM

As fishermen, most of us are often guilty of a few basic errors:

1. We throw at the bank all day when the fish are just not there, mostly because that's what we've always done.

2. Those of us fortunate enough to have fish finders base our fishing spot selection a device that shows us fish are underneath our boat, but not necessarily where we'll be casting.

3. Even with the 100% certainty we are never going to be professional bass fishermen, we still try to emulate, rather than learn from, the pros; if they don't do it, we don't do it.

http://www.gordellis.com/articles/bass_04.htm

I read this article recently I think you should read. It concerns trolling crankbaits. Now I know some of the more "elite" bass fishermen among us will turn up their noses at the very idea, as if it's beneath someone of their skill, but it is a valuable and greatly under-used technique these days, especially when fishing a new, unknown lake.

Like I may have mentioned before, I learned trolling from listening to Buck Perry, one of the all time greats of the fishing world. I'm not too interested if some modern-day pro thinks anyone can do it so it must be for beginners only. That's a weak way to think. Given two ways to accomplish something, one easy, and one hard...pick the easiest way. Trolling covers the most water in the quickest, most efficient way possible. For the life of me, I can't understand why a "power fisherman" wouldn't do it more often. Find the fish with your hooks rather than an LCD screen.

There is the added benefit of levelling the playing field. You can troll with a 5hp kicker motor, when the guys with the big-dollar boats might actually be wasting time blasting all over the lake in their 250hp rockets. You'll get to the same spot eventually, but you might run across a big school of bass on your way and never have to.

Anyways, give it a read, and consider it next time you're out.

JB · 06-15-09, 06:02 PM

flashbacks from the weekend huh LOL who the heck knows what they wanted, then I get the report for sunday that the largemouths were biting again..geesh! feed em beans!

nofearengineer · 06-15-09, 06:14 PM

JB, read it again...I was busy editing it where my stupid computer submitted it about 10% done heh.

Jim80 · 06-15-09, 06:54 PM

good read no fear , for myself i enjoy the cast and retrieve of fishing a crankbait and as a recreational angler that is part of the fun of it for me . Now i am not at all knocking the article but for my personal likes and dislikes it wouldn't fit me but again thanks for posting the article it was a good read .

jim

Jigger · 06-16-09, 08:48 AM

nofear,

Thanks for posting that. I too date back to Buck Perry and his trolling spoon plugs and remember well his articles (cutting edge at the time) about off shore structure fishing for bass. I'm constantly reading about new techniques and watching the latest on the fishing shows but you've inspired me to use trolling again although I don't like to troll.

Here's how I think it will help me: My club is going to fish a lake with a lot of off shore structure in the form of rocky ledges. I think trolling would be the ideal way to locate these off shore bass during practice before the tournament. No trolling during the tournament.

Thanks for reminding me that trolling can be a fast way to locate off shore bass.

Bassboss · 06-16-09, 11:36 AM

Great job nofear! Very true, through and through!

I'd try it, but, I have no boat!

CCbass · 06-21-09, 05:09 AM

If you fish your top three rules and follow them, you should never have been a bass fisherman in the first place.

bassFishingWNY · 06-21-09, 09:46 AM

nofearengineer:
"2. Those of us fortunate enough to have fish finders base our fishing spot selection a device that shows us fish are underneath our boat, but not necessarily where we'll be casting".

That's why I bought this handy fish finder.
Hummingbird Wireless fish finder. If it shows up, you can see the fish, how deep they are, the weed, other things in the water. The temp. of the water, and how deep the water is.
You do this by casting a small censer that relays info back to the fish finder, all from the boat, or shore. Cast it out, and slowly retrieve it till you see where the fish are, then work that area.

vabeachbass · 06-21-09, 09:49 AM

Now THAT is cool - Great news for the boatless.

bamabassman · 06-21-09, 12:15 PM

that is cool indeed. how much does it cost?

and once again, ccbass is making stupid remarks gang.

bassFishingWNY · 06-21-09, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamabassman

that is cool indeed. how much does it cost?

and once again, ccbass is making stupid remarks gang.

I got this 3 years ago $100. on Ebay, but i think they are now around $150. A few more things. It will show bait fish, they look like >>>>, with more under neath (can't do it on my computer, or don't know how). Won't show small fish like bluegills. Has light for night fishing (on fish finder, not censer), The black is bottom, the gray under the fish is weeds. A lot of neat little things I'm not even going into.
If you are thinking of getting one, read up on them, they make a lot of different models, just like anything. This is the RF15, the top model for that year. I'm sure the newer one are far better then mine.

JB · 06-21-09, 12:55 PM

I know I took woody and nofear to some spots we had a few bites friday and saw the fish stacked up like crazy, and you can see on the bank where you're casting theres visibily no fish, my hope was that one of the fish we were on top of would suspend to eight to fifteen feet and make the move up to snag one of our offerings. I'd much rather cast to that bank knowing a school is near and have had past catches there, then to blindly cast a bank where I'm not marking any fish at all when I have the boat in 25 feet or deeper. Even paralell casts over the fish shown on the graph in deep water hasnt yield me any fish, sooner or later I'm going to get lucky...maybe a drop shot is what I need to try when conditions are like this....all fish pulled off to the first drop and holding. I saw some C rig action going on too that day, I just think the bite was off that day..."ya thats the ticket " lol

maybe our local expert ccbass can offer some advise

nofearengineer · 06-21-09, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCbass

If you fish your top three rules and follow them, you should never have been a bass fisherman in the first place.

Gee, thanks CCbass. Can I get your personal phone number so I can call you up and have you tell me if I'm qualified to go bass fishing next time?

You're a jackass.

bassFishingWNY · 06-21-09, 02:29 PM

I may be wrong, if you think so, tell me why, and let talks about it like adults.

You boat fish finder records the depth of the water, terrain under your boat. It records the fish in radius to the depth of water of your boat (30 feet of water = fish 15 feet in any direction of your boat). So if you are out 50' from shore, you are only picking up fish 15' from your boat, not were the fish are.
The hummingbird wireless fish finder works the same way, but lets you cast into shore, lets you cast to were the fish are. So in 8' of water, you see fish 4' in any direction of the censer, 4' of water, 2', so on. Shows you the terrain under the censer, you can see what the land looks like you will be fishing, not guessing.
I highly recommend this to everyone. Your fishing will improve 50%, your strike rate will improve 90%.

I would like to see Kevin do a video on this, a new way of fishing.

JB · 06-21-09, 02:38 PM

I alway wondered how that worked, I was guessing the cone sent a two foot sonar and that is what I was looking at, however with any amount of fish underneath, I cue in on clusters of bait fish, most of the time at my home lake the fish being marked could be crappies or stripper or walleyes, however some of the shapes are easier to make out than others, like a crappie showing up with a bigger girth around standing timbers. Still I think all of us could learn more about soar at any level.

nofearengineer · 06-21-09, 02:46 PM

Yeah...I like my sonar. However, they'll never be able to invent a sonar that can tell a catfish from a bass or a sleepy fish from a hungry, aggressive fish. Sonar is good for locating cover and structure (proud of me, Woody?

), and showing general fish activity. 99.99% of the fish you catch will not be ones you graphed.

Trolling locates hungry, willing to strike fish, and ignores lethargic, less likely to be caught fish. Does it miss some? Of course it does...but if you troll several lures of differing depths and colors, it can help eliminate a lot of guesswork.

bassFishingWNY · 06-21-09, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Yeah...I like my sonar. However, they'll never be able to invent a sonar that can tell a catfish from a bass or a sleepy fish from a hungry, aggressive fish. Sonar is good for locating cover and structure (proud of me, Woody?

), and showing general fish activity. 99.99% of the fish you catch will not be ones you graphed.

Trolling locates hungry, willing to strike fish, and ignores lethargic, less likely to be caught fish. Does it miss some? Of course it does...but if you troll several lures of differing depths and colors, it can help eliminate a lot of guesswork.

Yep, you are right!

But if you know fish, you know where the live! If you know where they live, you can eliminate 99.9% of fish.

nofearengineer · 06-21-09, 02:57 PM

Oh, by the way, WNY...that handheld sonar is really cool! I wish I had had one of those when I was stuck on the bank. Even in a boat, I could see a use for it. If you ever wanted to scope out some water you were unsure of taking your boat into for visibility or cover reasons.

bamabassman · 06-21-09, 02:57 PM

correct me if i am wrong ok? ya'll are talking about the side winder type of sonar, correct? i like this truly i do. i DO think it will show you where the fish are and aren't alot better. when i can i am gonna get one of these. the regular type of sonar or fish finder only shows the bottom of where you pass over. and it is best for depth in my opion.
now i like what nofear said about the sonar telling you the difference between bass, cats and bream. maybe one day it'll happen,lol

JB · 06-21-09, 02:59 PM

bama the new ones come with those Xray glasses that used to be sold on the back of comic books

bamabassman · 06-21-09, 03:08 PM

hahaha, ok jb. at the event on kentusky, daniel and i fished with c-rig for a bit. he has the hummingbird sidewinder. i really liked it. cool as he77.

bassFishingWNY · 06-21-09, 03:09 PM

"now i like what nofear said about the sonar telling you the difference between bass, cats and bream. maybe one day it'll happen,lol"

most sonar don't pick up bream, and catfish? They live in deeper water in the day, along banks to eat dead fish washed over the edge, at night they come near shore. And yes, you can get catfish in day time, but in deeper water.

large mouth bass live in weeds, near shore, small mouth bass in 30 feet of water, or more.

nofearengineer · 06-21-09, 03:17 PM

Sonar picks up all fish, as long as they have a swim bladder. Sonar picks up the air in their swim bladder, since it has a density different than water. The other parts of the fish are almost exactly the same density as water, so they have no effect on the sonar.

You could take some balloons, tie on weights, and drop them to the bottom, and they'd look just like a school of fish to your sonar.

And I've caught most types of fish in all depths of water at pretty much all times of the day. There are no hard, fast rules about where the fish will be and when, WNY. Now go catch some fish with your sonar.

bassFishingWNY · 06-21-09, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Sonar picks up all fish, as long as they have a swim bladder. Sonar picks up the air in their swim bladder, since it has a density different than water. The other parts of the fish are almost exactly the same density as water, so they have no effect on the sonar.

You could take some balloons, tie on weights, and drop them to the bottom, and they'd look just like a school of fish to your sonar.

And I've caught most types of fish in all depths of water at pretty much all times of the day. There are no hard, fast rules about where the fish will be and when, WNY. Now go catch some fish with your sonar.

You saying weeds have air bladders? Tree stumps do too? Why dose the Sonar pick them up??

The bottom had air bladders??

I think you are wrong, and thanks for the dig! I have picked up fish using the fish finder!!

nofearengineer · 06-21-09, 03:36 PM

No, rocks, weeds, and stumps don't have swim bladders. What they do have is a density different than water. That's why the sonar picks them up. The swim bladder is the only part of a fish that is "visible" to a fish finder; that's why it doesn't know the difference between types of fish.

I didn't make a dig of any sort towards you. No idea what you are talking about.

06-15-09, 05:59 PM	#1
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	Another Way of Thinking As fishermen, most of us are often guilty of a few basic errors: 1. We throw at the bank all day when the fish are just not there, mostly because that's what we've always done. 2. Those of us fortunate enough to have fish finders base our fishing spot selection a device that shows us fish are underneath our boat, but not necessarily where we'll be casting. 3. Even with the 100% certainty we are never going to be professional bass fishermen, we still try to emulate, rather than learn from, the pros; if they don't do it, we don't do it. http://www.gordellis.com/articles/bass_04.htm I read this article recently I think you should read. It concerns trolling crankbaits. Now I know some of the more "elite" bass fishermen among us will turn up their noses at the very idea, as if it's beneath someone of their skill, but it is a valuable and greatly under-used technique these days, especially when fishing a new, unknown lake. Like I may have mentioned before, I learned trolling from listening to Buck Perry, one of the all time greats of the fishing world. I'm not too interested if some modern-day pro thinks anyone can do it so it must be for beginners only. That's a weak way to think. Given two ways to accomplish something, one easy, and one hard...pick the easiest way. Trolling covers the most water in the quickest, most efficient way possible. For the life of me, I can't understand why a "power fisherman" wouldn't do it more often. Find the fish with your hooks rather than an LCD screen. There is the added benefit of levelling the playing field. You can troll with a 5hp kicker motor, when the guys with the big-dollar boats might actually be wasting time blasting all over the lake in their 250hp rockets. You'll get to the same spot eventually, but you might run across a big school of bass on your way and never have to. Anyways, give it a read, and consider it next time you're out. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after. Last edited by nofearengineer; 06-15-09 at 06:13 PM. Reason: browser submitted too early

06-15-09, 06:14 PM	#3
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	JB, read it again...I was busy editing it where my stupid computer submitted it about 10% done heh. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

06-15-09, 06:54 PM	#4
Jim80 BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Thomaston CT Posts: 3,862	good read no fear , for myself i enjoy the cast and retrieve of fishing a crankbait and as a recreational angler that is part of the fun of it for me . Now i am not at all knocking the article but for my personal likes and dislikes it wouldn't fit me but again thanks for posting the article it was a good read . jim __________________ In memory of Zooker 1/11/73-7/2/2010. You will be sorely missed and never forgotten.

06-16-09, 11:36 AM	#6
Bassboss BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Shawano, WI Posts: 7,761	Great job nofear! Very true, through and through! I'd try it, but, I have no boat! __________________ If you can't fix it with heavy squats or fish oil, you're probably going to die.

06-21-09, 09:46 AM	#8
bassFishingWNY BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 124	nofearengineer: "2. Those of us fortunate enough to have fish finders base our fishing spot selection a device that shows us fish are underneath our boat, but not necessarily where we'll be casting". That's why I bought this handy fish finder. Hummingbird Wireless fish finder. If it shows up, you can see the fish, how deep they are, the weed, other things in the water. The temp. of the water, and how deep the water is. You do this by casting a small censer that relays info back to the fish finder, all from the boat, or shore. Cast it out, and slowly retrieve it till you see where the fish are, then work that area. Attached Thumbnails

06-15-09, 06:02 PM	#2
JB BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,655	flashbacks from the weekend huh LOL who the heck knows what they wanted, then I get the report for sunday that the largemouths were biting again..geesh! feed em beans!

06-16-09, 08:48 AM	#5
Jigger BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 490	nofear, Thanks for posting that. I too date back to Buck Perry and his trolling spoon plugs and remember well his articles (cutting edge at the time) about off shore structure fishing for bass. I'm constantly reading about new techniques and watching the latest on the fishing shows but you've inspired me to use trolling again although I don't like to troll. Here's how I think it will help me: My club is going to fish a lake with a lot of off shore structure in the form of rocky ledges. I think trolling would be the ideal way to locate these off shore bass during practice before the tournament. No trolling during the tournament. Thanks for reminding me that trolling can be a fast way to locate off shore bass.

06-21-09, 05:09 AM	#7
CCbass BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Monterey CA Posts: 253	If you fish your top three rules and follow them, you should never have been a bass fisherman in the first place.

06-21-09, 09:49 AM	#9
vabeachbass BassFishin.Com Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Virginia Beach, Va. Posts: 48	Now THAT is cool - Great news for the boatless. Last edited by vabeachbass; 06-21-09 at 10:56 AM.

06-21-09, 12:15 PM	#10
bamabassman BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: cedar bluff, alabama Posts: 15,292	that is cool indeed. how much does it cost? and once again, ccbass is making stupid remarks gang. __________________ so many lures, so little time.

06-21-09, 12:55 PM	#12
JB BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,655	I know I took woody and nofear to some spots we had a few bites friday and saw the fish stacked up like crazy, and you can see on the bank where you're casting theres visibily no fish, my hope was that one of the fish we were on top of would suspend to eight to fifteen feet and make the move up to snag one of our offerings. I'd much rather cast to that bank knowing a school is near and have had past catches there, then to blindly cast a bank where I'm not marking any fish at all when I have the boat in 25 feet or deeper. Even paralell casts over the fish shown on the graph in deep water hasnt yield me any fish, sooner or later I'm going to get lucky...maybe a drop shot is what I need to try when conditions are like this....all fish pulled off to the first drop and holding. I saw some C rig action going on too that day, I just think the bite was off that day..."ya thats the ticket " lol maybe our local expert ccbass can offer some advise

06-21-09, 02:29 PM	#14
bassFishingWNY BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 124	I may be wrong, if you think so, tell me why, and let talks about it like adults. You boat fish finder records the depth of the water, terrain under your boat. It records the fish in radius to the depth of water of your boat (30 feet of water = fish 15 feet in any direction of your boat). So if you are out 50' from shore, you are only picking up fish 15' from your boat, not were the fish are. The hummingbird wireless fish finder works the same way, but lets you cast into shore, lets you cast to were the fish are. So in 8' of water, you see fish 4' in any direction of the censer, 4' of water, 2', so on. Shows you the terrain under the censer, you can see what the land looks like you will be fishing, not guessing. I highly recommend this to everyone. Your fishing will improve 50%, your strike rate will improve 90%. I would like to see Kevin do a video on this, a new way of fishing.

06-21-09, 02:38 PM	#15
JB BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,655	I alway wondered how that worked, I was guessing the cone sent a two foot sonar and that is what I was looking at, however with any amount of fish underneath, I cue in on clusters of bait fish, most of the time at my home lake the fish being marked could be crappies or stripper or walleyes, however some of the shapes are easier to make out than others, like a crappie showing up with a bigger girth around standing timbers. Still I think all of us could learn more about soar at any level.

06-21-09, 02:46 PM	#16
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	Yeah...I like my sonar. However, they'll never be able to invent a sonar that can tell a catfish from a bass or a sleepy fish from a hungry, aggressive fish. Sonar is good for locating cover and structure (proud of me, Woody? ), and showing general fish activity. 99.99% of the fish you catch will not be ones you graphed. Trolling locates hungry, willing to strike fish, and ignores lethargic, less likely to be caught fish. Does it miss some? Of course it does...but if you troll several lures of differing depths and colors, it can help eliminate a lot of guesswork. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

06-21-09, 02:57 PM	#18
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	Oh, by the way, WNY...that handheld sonar is really cool! I wish I had had one of those when I was stuck on the bank. Even in a boat, I could see a use for it. If you ever wanted to scope out some water you were unsure of taking your boat into for visibility or cover reasons. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

06-21-09, 02:59 PM	#20
JB BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,655	bama the new ones come with those Xray glasses that used to be sold on the back of comic books

06-21-09, 03:08 PM	#21
bamabassman BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: cedar bluff, alabama Posts: 15,292	hahaha, ok jb. at the event on kentusky, daniel and i fished with c-rig for a bit. he has the hummingbird sidewinder. i really liked it. cool as he77. __________________ so many lures, so little time.

06-21-09, 03:09 PM	#22
bassFishingWNY BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 124	"now i like what nofear said about the sonar telling you the difference between bass, cats and bream. maybe one day it'll happen,lol" most sonar don't pick up bream, and catfish? They live in deeper water in the day, along banks to eat dead fish washed over the edge, at night they come near shore. And yes, you can get catfish in day time, but in deeper water. large mouth bass live in weeds, near shore, small mouth bass in 30 feet of water, or more.

06-21-09, 03:17 PM	#23
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	Sonar picks up all fish, as long as they have a swim bladder. Sonar picks up the air in their swim bladder, since it has a density different than water. The other parts of the fish are almost exactly the same density as water, so they have no effect on the sonar. You could take some balloons, tie on weights, and drop them to the bottom, and they'd look just like a school of fish to your sonar. And I've caught most types of fish in all depths of water at pretty much all times of the day. There are no hard, fast rules about where the fish will be and when, WNY. Now go catch some fish with your sonar. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

06-21-09, 03:36 PM	#25
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	No, rocks, weeds, and stumps don't have swim bladders. What they do have is a density different than water. That's why the sonar picks them up. The swim bladder is the only part of a fish that is "visible" to a fish finder; that's why it doesn't know the difference between types of fish. I didn't make a dig of any sort towards you. No idea what you are talking about. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

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