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Old 01-11-12, 12:52 PM   #1
fish4942
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Default Frog / Topwater Spinning Reel Setup

Iím going to setup a spinning reel outfit for Topwater and Frogging this year. I have 2 baitcaster setups with braided lines but I talked to a guy who goes fairly light with his setup. He uses only 12lb mono and mainly throws LiveTarget and Spro Frogs with it. I was thinking thatís scary as I wouldnít go under 40lb braid throwing $10 lures.

Please give some feedback on your spinning setup including reel, rod size / action, line, etc.

Thanks.
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Old 01-11-12, 12:59 PM   #2
kennethdaysale
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Hey fish...while a frog is a "topwater" bait...imo a good frog outfit wouldn't be my first choice for throwing a torpedo or rapala or the like. I own and use and enjoy spinning gear but I suggest that you figure out a way to fit a baitcaster in the mix for froggin. However having said that my wife likes to throw a frog on a stradic 2500/#12 mono/6'6" mh-f ...she just don't throw it in the slop, instead works the pockets-edges...works good for her.
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Old 01-11-12, 01:19 PM   #3
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I don't throw frogs on anything less than 30lbs braid, and usually 50 or 65lbs. I'm throwing in amongst lily pads and grass, where 12lbs line would break in about 5 seconds on the first fish. If your friend is fishing more open water, then the 12lbs line might be ok. To me, there's no reason to go light.....the line isn't in the water, so the fish seeing the line and getting spooked isn't an issue.
Also, what kind of topwaters are you planning on throwing? Mainly frogs, or also poppers, walkers, jitterbugs, etc?
My frogging setup is a 7'6" heavy power rod, 30-65lbs braid, and a fast 7.1:1 ratio baitcasting reel.
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Old 01-11-12, 02:20 PM   #4
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My current frog setups are baitcasters:

Reel: BPS Johnny Morris Carbon Black, 7.1:1
Rod: 7í3Ē MH Abu Garcia Vendetta
Line: 40lb Power Pro Braid

Reel: BPS Pro Qualifier, 7.1:1
Rod: 7í M Abu Garcia Vendetta
Line: 30lb Suffix Performance Braid

1st setup I use for Spro frogs, Scum Frogs, Live Target frog (I just got one on sale). 2nd setup I use for swimming frogs like the Stanley Ribbit, Zoom Horny Toads, etc.

With the spinning setup I want to use for both types of frogs I mentioned above. I want it to be versatile. I was thinking about this setup:

Reel: Pflueger Arbor / BPS PQ or Johnny Morris
Rod: 7í MH to H Abu Garcia Vendetta
Line: 30-40lb Power Pro Braid
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Old 01-11-12, 04:12 PM   #5
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gotts be a H or XH, but yo know that, over the summer i lost alot more on frogs than hooksed, with the MH, seem to much bend and the bass done spit him out.
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Old 01-11-12, 05:10 PM   #6
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I use a 7' H F Loomis IMX with an Abu STX 7.1:1 with 30lb Sufix PB. I wouldn't use a spinning rod for frogs.

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Old 01-11-12, 06:41 PM   #7
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My friend also uses 10-15 pound braid. His reasoning is that 10-15 lb braid is made for 10-15 pound fish. But it is important to remember that even though it says 10-15 pound line on the box, you should use higher pound line when fishing in cover, and just to make the connection stronger. I dont know much about setups for frog fishing but you should definitely use higher pound braid than 12 pound. Im new to fishing and i know this probably didnt help much lol. One thing i dont understand is why you wouldnt use a spinning reel for frogs? How is the baitcaster better for it?
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Old 01-11-12, 06:50 PM   #8
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baitcasters are better because they come in higher gear ratio's than spinning reels. i throw all my topwater lures on 7.1:1 because when a fish blows up on it i can pick up line with fewer handle turns. Thats just how i like to fish my frogs n other topwaters.
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Old 01-11-12, 07:47 PM   #9
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Old 01-11-12, 08:03 PM   #10
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Not to get off subject but Tbone66 you couldn't be more wrong. Yeah a baitcaster has a high gear ratio, but a baitcaster with a 7:1 gear ratio has a line recovery of about 29"-33" per turn of handle(varys from brand to brand). Whereas a 40's class spinning reel with a 5:1 gear ratio pulls 30"-35" per turn of the handle(Also varys from brand to brand). And with the availible braids on the market you can't even argue that line strenght is an issue with 50 lb. braid only being the dia. of 12 lb. mono.
I say if you want to fish a frog on spinning gear theres no reason not to other than personal prefference. I like a baitcaster for everything but lighter presentations that aren't practical on a baitcaster, not to say that most lures can't be thrown on a spinning reel.
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Old 01-11-12, 08:30 PM   #11
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I throw Stanley Ribbits, Zoom Horny Toads, and Spro frogs on spinning gear. I use an old Team Diawa 6-1/2 ft medium heavy rod with a Pfluger 6735 President reel and 20 lb Suffix 832. I get the most bites on the Horny Toad followed closely by the Stanley Ribbit Frog. (Usually in that order, not always) I get the best hook-ups on the Ribbit Frog with a sinlge 5/0 EWG hook - I haven't tried the Stanley double hook, but don't see a reason to change. I miss a few more fish with the Zoom Horny Toad. I haven't had good luck with the Spro; the fish don't seem to want to bite it and when they do bite, they don't stay hooked.

Qualifier: the lake I fish doesn't have a lot of thick weed mats so I'm usually fishing frogs around sparse topwater vegitation or over submeged vegitation. The Spro might do better in the thick stuff.

I just started using Suffix 832 towards the end of last season - I like it better than Power Pro on my spinning gear, but Power Pro is very servicable and easier on the wallet.
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Old 01-12-12, 10:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaBasser View Post
I throw Stanley Ribbits, Zoom Horny Toads, and Spro frogs on spinning gear. I use an old Team Diawa 6-1/2 ft medium heavy rod with a Pfluger 6735 President reel and 20 lb Suffix 832. I get the most bites on the Horny Toad followed closely by the Stanley Ribbit Frog. (Usually in that order, not always) I get the best hook-ups on the Ribbit Frog with a sinlge 5/0 EWG hook - I haven't tried the Stanley double hook, but don't see a reason to change. I miss a few more fish with the Zoom Horny Toad. I haven't had good luck with the Spro; the fish don't seem to want to bite it and when they do bite, they don't stay hooked.

Qualifier: the lake I fish doesn't have a lot of thick weed mats so I'm usually fishing frogs around sparse topwater vegitation or over submeged vegitation. The Spro might do better in the thick stuff.

I just started using Suffix 832 towards the end of last season - I like it better than Power Pro on my spinning gear, but Power Pro is very servicable and easier on the wallet.
Funny you mentioned the Pflueger President. I have one and for some reason forgot how much reel you get for $50.00. I have the previous model. Thatís more than likely what Iím going to go with. You also use my 2 favorite frogs as well. I rank the Ribbit slightly ahead of the Horny Toad. Mainly because the Ribbit is a very tough and durable frog that canít take a beating fish after fish. Unlike that crappy and expensive Strike King rage toad where one swipe from a bluegill or sunfish and youíll lose a leg or two. The commotion is great but I went through 2 packs mainly because of the sunfish ripping them apart. Caught very few fish on them. I only use one color scheme in the Horny Toad. Itís the yellow and black/green swirl color. That color works magic for me and my sons whenever I take them out frogging. The check the tackle bag for them before we leave the house.
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Old 01-12-12, 10:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBone66 View Post
baitcasters are better because they come in higher gear ratio's than spinning reels. i throw all my topwater lures on 7.1:1 because when a fish blows up on it i can pick up line with fewer handle turns. Thats just how i like to fish my frogs n other topwaters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ_Callahan_27 View Post
Not to get off subject but Tbone66 you couldn't be more wrong. Yeah a baitcaster has a high gear ratio, but a baitcaster with a 7:1 gear ratio has a line recovery of about 29"-33" per turn of handle(varys from brand to brand). Whereas a 40's class spinning reel with a 5:1 gear ratio pulls 30"-35" per turn of the handle(Also varys from brand to brand).

...

I like a baitcaster for everything but lighter presentations that aren't practical on a baitcaster, not to say that most lures can't be thrown on a spinning reel.
DJ
DJ, I definitely agree with you these points. Choosing baitcasting over spinning has nothing to do with gear ratio. Especially, like you said, since some spinning reels bring in more line than a fast BC. I like using baitcasting reels because they can handle heavier line easier, it's easier to find a good quality Heavy powered casting rod, and because I am more accurate and can cast further with a casting rod. However, there really isn't a reason that you absolutely can't use a spinning setup... I just wouldn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaBasser View Post
I just started using Suffix 832 towards the end of last season - I like it better than Power Pro on my spinning gear, but Power Pro is very servicable and easier on the wallet.
Sufix 832 is definitely great braid, and probably my favorite. However, it does sink, albeit slowly. This makes it less than ideal for any topwater presentation that aren't moving quickly.

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Old 01-12-12, 06:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Not to get off subject but Tbone66 you couldn't be more wrong. Yeah a baitcaster has a high gear ratio, but a baitcaster with a 7:1 gear ratio has a line recovery of about 29"-33" per turn of handle(varys from brand to brand). Whereas a 40's class spinning reel with a 5:1 gear ratio pulls 30"-35" per turn of the handle(Also varys from brand to brand). And with the availible braids on the market you can't even argue that line strenght is an issue with 50 lb. braid only being the dia. of 12 lb. mono.
I say if you want to fish a frog on spinning gear theres no reason not to other than personal prefference. I like a baitcaster for everything but lighter presentations that aren't practical on a baitcaster, not to say that most lures can't be thrown on a spinning reel.
DJ
If spinning reels with lower gear ratios can pull more line than baitcasters with high gear ratios depending on the specifications, What determines the reel rate of the reels besides the gear ratio? And i have asked questions on the forums about which gear ratio works the best for specific poles, and people have replied with specific ratios such as 5:1, 6:3, etc. But if gear ratio isn't everything when it comes to reel speed, how can you tell if it has a slow retrieve or a fast retrieve?
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Old 01-12-12, 07:08 PM   #15
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That's really a can of worms, there. The gear ratio has been pushed by the manufacturers of the reels to be one of their biggest selling points and ratings. We've kind of all gotten sucked into that.
Think of this...tie some line to a pencil, like it's a reel spool, and spin it 10 times. How much line are you going to pick up? A few inches....not very much. Now, tie some line around a 55 gallon drum, and spin it 10 times. You're going to pick up yards and yards of line that way.
Now relate that to reels....gear ratio says that for every 1 time I turn the handle, the spool turns a lot more....6.3 times, 7.1 times, whatever. The diameter of the spool plays a huge part in the retrieve speed, as you can see from my (laughably extreme) example above. The BEST way to determine what speed reel you want is the "Inches Per Turn," or IPT. For every turn of the handle, how much line is retrieved? Most manufacturers publish this information, but it's not put in as obvious of a place as the gear ratio.
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Old 01-12-12, 07:28 PM   #16
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Let's really muddy the water and throw in how torque is affected by those 2 variables
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Old 01-12-12, 08:22 PM   #17
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Anyone have or use Case Plastic Frogs, I have only been able to find them in one shop here. They're out of MI, or OH, was wondering if anyone else used them as a topwater plastic frog option.
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Old 01-13-12, 09:36 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethdaysale View Post
Let's really muddy the water and throw in how torque is affected by those 2 variables
Torque is pretty simple - the lower the IPT the higher the torque. It's like a car transmition... a reel with a very high IPT is like car transmition stuck in the higheway gear - that's great for top-end speed, but not so great if starting from a complete stop. One thing to consider is that (generally speaking) bait casters have better torque than spinning reels for 3 reasons:

1. As mentioned previously bait-casters tend to have lower IPT's than spinning reel, and thus better torque.

2. In the mechanics of a bait casting reel the spool is paralell to the reel where as in a spinning reel the spool is perpendicular to the reel. You lose some torque in the transition on a spinning reel.

3. The entire spool turns on a bait caster and the line is wrapped directly onto the spool in a straight line (very efficient.) On a spinning reel the spool is stationary and the bail or pick-up turns around the spool wrapping the line around it - however the line has to make a 90 degree turn at the bail on spinning reel (less efficient.)
Plus the bail is further from the center of the spool; basically increasing the diameter of the spool which lowers your torque even further.


Qualifier: These are my beliefs. I couldn't tell you if I read these somewhere over the years, or came up with them on my own. - So if someone calls B.S. I'm willing to listen!


I've always felt that the torque is the reason most bass professionals (and the largemouth bass fishing industry) prefer bait casters. Bait casters perform better under heavy loads. That said there are many advantages to spinning reels. (I'm a spinning reel guy) They cast lighter lures better. Also I feel the position of the spinning reel under a rod has inheriently better ballance than a bait caster which sits on top of a rod ...and let's not forget back-lashes!

Last edited by IowaBasser; 01-13-12 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 01-13-12, 10:47 AM   #19
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Ive got one spinning outfit that i used prior to getting a frog rod,worked ok on 15-17 fish in grass,not so hot in thick lilly pads.Think there the rod is a major factor not that a decent blank could be used for making a spinning frog rod.Low gear ratio one can winch a heffer out of the jungle,higher once out and bring in easier pros and cons to both.Same with backlash see little difference between a backlash and a birdsnest.
Longer cast with a baitcaster normally possibly shorter more accurate with lighter stuff on the spinning they now make some 1 1/2 in 1/3 oz floating frogs.Actually intend to get some.
As for case frogs they are like a different brand of ribbet or horny toad and as such one does not need a frog rod any topwater rod will do unless in thick stuff as not a floating frog.Instant hookset like on a buzzbait.I have used them prefer my horny toads when using that type of frog and with most anglers it is what they prefer to toss not what everyone else does.
Last but not least no one frog rod and reel setup will be good for all situations,I fish frogs mainly 9 months a year and have half a doz rigs all somewhat different.
Kistler heavy action ,shimano,all star,carrot stix for lighter work and an antique spinning outfit thats just for floaters.With gr of 6/2/1 to 7/1/1,and a low 4/8/1 on the spinning,that rod is tad more limber and that gr works fine for getting one loose from roots,thick grass just slower once they clear.
Most of my rods are about 100 bucks all my reels were under that price range.
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Old 01-13-12, 02:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaBasser View Post
T


..and let's not forget back-lashes!
Don't forget line twist can be just as big or bigger problem with a spinning reel and in general when you get a mess with a spinning reel its cut off a big chunk of line, no picking it out. LOL

Getting back on topic, both the Baitcaster and Spinning reels have a time and place where one would be the best combo for what you want to do. I don't think frog fishing is one of them though. I would only throw frogs into cover on at least 30 lb. braid (and I only use Suffix btw) and on a baitcasting rod. The only time I go to a spinning rod is when the bait I'm fishing is to light to throw on a casting rod or there are special conditions. I only use a spinning rod to throw my Sink-N-Fool baits because I like to skip cast them a lot and you can't do that with a baitcaster. I also use a spinning setup for very light crankbaits and dropshoting. Would I throw a swimbait on a spinning rod? never! So use common sense and you will do fine. Many situations you could use either very effectively . It all boils down to what you are most comfortable with.
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Old 01-13-12, 03:02 PM   #21
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Line twist?Using braid it has little or no memory,and 30 lb has about a 12 pd diameter.
Admittably the spinning outfit is better at skipping but cant be done on a baitcaster lol.
I do it all the time tell Deeny he cant skip a bait,its just that the spinning outfit lends itself nicely to it,with little or no tension via the reel.
Frogs like bobbies perfect will work on 30 lb braid.frogs like spro need more like 50 to walk right and therefore require a baitcaster,same with the cover if thick like lotus or lillies not grass,then more heavier line and baitcaster but over grass and with frogs that will cooperate it can be used with a spinning outfit,just not my pick overall as a preformer,but do have 1 and do use it at times,over or on top of grass thats topped.
That is but 1 out of say 6 outfits just for frogging,not by choice had it and no frog rods in the begining but know it will work,just prefer a baitcaster and to those who might prefer a spinning outfit it can and will work in its proper places,not everyone has thick veggies and hydrilla topped isnt thick to me.
Suffix works great on a baitcaster on a spinning outfit power pro.
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Old 01-13-12, 05:43 PM   #22
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Fish your reel and line choice is fine. I would get which ever rod feels better to you. I use mh and h rods both for frogs in baitcasting though. I've never held the Vendetta. If mh feels flimsy go heavy. I mostly throw Horny Toads with mh and hollow body frogs with a h rod.
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Old 01-13-12, 08:04 PM   #23
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When I use spinning gear for frogging, which I frequently do, I use 7 foot heavy, fast action Croix Legend Custom rod and Quantum 30 Tour Ed. reel. I always used 30lb. braid but going to move up braid weight next summer. The strength is fine but the thinner braids have a tendency to bury line on reel after pulling fish out of heavy cover. I fish ribbits and hollow bodies on these poles and sometimes spooks and poppers.
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Old 01-14-12, 12:55 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Don't forget line twist can be just as big or bigger problem with a spinning reel and in general when you get a mess with a spinning reel its cut off a big chunk of line, no picking it out. LOL
Very true... whichever reels people have a preference for, bait-casting or spinning reels, if you use them all the time you become proficeint with them. That means less backlashes on bait-casters and on spinning gear you learn to detect when your line is getting twists and learn to straighten it out before it becomes a major problem.
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Old 01-14-12, 09:20 AM   #25
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AcceptFan, welcome to the forum.
Can I assume your a fan of the band? If so, you have good taste.
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