Should Kim Baine-Moore be in the Classic?

[mont_lunker_hunter]

There's obviously relatively fair arguments for both sides the major two being 1) she qualified according to the BASS guidelines, so she should fish...or 2) she was not subjected to the same qualifying requirements as the men, so she shouldn't fish...

I say the cream rises to the top, if she makes it fine...let her fish...if she's truly good enough she'll do well, if not, no harm no foul. I think it's important to point out that some say the women's tour is not as hard as the men's tour, yet she didn't finish last... the couple of guys she did beat went through the "tougher" and she still out fished them. Obviously she's as good as some of the men.

[3dkicker]

Originally Posted by bamabassman

if it is a non contact sport. then there should be NO gender biasness.

Sorry Bama but there is. Got to go a little scientific on you. Men and women have differences in motor abilities which affect the skills that they need for a sport or similar activity. Men are better at some non-contact sports or activities due to the differences in abilities but the same is true for women with other sports or activities.

Now the question comes down to which motor abilities are needed in fishing and are men better because of this difference? If men have better eye hand coordination (an ability) then they probably will have better casting ability (a skill) and will more likely put baits in better tighter spaces giving them a better chance of catching a highly pressured fish (for example).

Just something to think about.

[bamabassman]

ok, 3d, i am thinking about it. but please explain your position a little more for me. give me examples of what you are telling me. i want to get a mental picture of it truly. if you are talking about say....tennis, ping pong, bowling etc, i still have a hard time seeing it. this is interesting to say the least.

[WTL]

Bama, its a fact. Women are much better at sports such as mechanical bull riding, mudwrestling, pole dancing and the like. Whereas guys, by virtue of their superior intellect and athleticism, are better at everything else.

[bamabassman]

hahahaha, yes it is very intriguing to watch a woman ride a mechanical bull, ploe, wrestle in mud. more fun whenit is 2 women.....and ME!!!! hahahahaha.

me and the wife was watching when the guy said she shouldnt be there and my wife got mad,but assured her that there was plenty for a woman to do in bass fishing,i mean they can clean fish,cook em,clean and vacum the boat,get sandwiches ready for a day on the lake,heck lots of stuff.

















just joking.

[bamabassman]

careful ky southern......don't let the mrs bamabassman see this, HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Jigger]

Originally Posted by Joel

So what's new about that? For as long as I can remember, girl's sports were solely for girls. Guys couldn't join no matter what. But there are cases when girls and their parents went to court in order to have the right to play on a boys sports team. I've seen it in high school football, and baseball.

It's discriminatory that's what's wrong. It's a sham and a set up to allow a female that didn't otherwise qualify get into to a very elite tournament, and shoot at half a mil.to wit: the world championship via AOY in a weaker circuit. Imagine letting the AOY from the BASS regular tour (KVD) into the women's Classic!!!!! If she wants to fish for equal pay, treat her equally and let her qualify like everyone else did.

Just because BASS changed the rules and lowered the standards to let a female in doesn't make it right or fair. Bernie Shultz is right. She doesn't belong there unless she's gets in like everyone else does.

So where does BASS go now? Let the AOY of the Gay or Black or Native American or Senior bass tour into the Classic? Why not? BASS could use the same reasoning some of you all are putting forth in support of her. Seems reasonable to me. That way we might not necessarily have the best anglers fishing the world championship but we would be politically correct, and isn't that really what we're all striving for in this day and age???? I mean who wants to be fair anyway when you can be politically correct, right?

[doc]

Originally Posted by Jigger

It's discriminatory that's what's wrong. It's a sham and a set up to allow a female that didn't otherwise qualify get into to a very elite tournament, and shoot at half a mil.to wit: the world championship via AOY in a weaker circuit. Imagine letting the AOY from the BASS regular tour (KVD) into the women's Classic!!!!! If she wants to fish for equal pay, treat her equally and let her qualify like everyone else did.

Just because BASS changed the rules and lowered the standards to let a female in doesn't make it right or fair. Bernie Shultz is right. She doesn't belong there unless she's gets in like everyone else does.

So where does BASS go now? Let the AOY of the Gay or Black or Native American or Senior bass tour into the Classic? Why not? BASS could use the same reasoning some of you all are putting forth in support of her. Seems reasonable to me. That way we might not necessarily have the best anglers fishing the world championship but we would be politically correct, and isn't that really what we're all striving for in this day and age???? I mean who wants to be fair anyway when you can be politically correct, right?

By this logic the anglers she beat in the classic should be forced to retire, or join the womens' league.

[Jigger]

Originally Posted by doc

By this logic the anglers she beat in the classic should be forced to retire, or join the womens' league.

Not true. Fishing has a lot of luck in it. Unlike golf or tennis or bowling which is almost all skill. Fishing is a somewhat like poker to an extent. In fishing as in poker the cream will always rise to the top OVER TIME but in the short run even the best can be beaten by someone with a lot less skill. I didn't say no skill. For example, on a given day on the right lake with the right fish, I think I could beat KVD at fishing or Doyle Brunson in Poker if I got on the right fish or caught the right cards but I could never, ever beat Tiger Woods at golf or Pete Sampras at tennis no matter how lucky I got or how badly they played.

She finished 47th out of 50 (not 51 because Timmy Horton withdrew because of illness). I'd be willing to bet that if she fished heads up once a week for a year against the 3 she beat, she'd get embarrassed wouldn't you?

[Brett M]

Below I am posting a "Cut and Paste" on this subject I wrote for another site-

First I think an inacuracy needs to be addressed-- The Womens tour only averages about 100 pros,, up from 80+or- the year before not 250.

I hope this post helps the ones that think the WBT should have a Classic Spot understand why others have a problem with it. NObody has a problem with Kim-- go girl!

An analogy-- you have been working at your job for 20yrs,, the promotion you have always wanted is coming open. You know you are the most qualified, but the company Hires someone else less experinced purely because of Gender or Ethinic backround to fill the Politically Correct Quota. Are you happy about it?

The problem really isnt that the women have been given a Classic Slot,, it's that it is purely for the women as the men are not allowed to compete.


From BBC

"I am personally happy for Kim, congrats to ya girl. You are just playing by the rules. It's an honor just to be there. I am glad I lived long enough to see the first woman in the classic. As far as sending someone from the BBC in a lotto,, I would sign up and go if selected! But that doen't make it the right thing for BASS to do either.

Truth-- BASS created the Classic slot for the WBT to "close the deal" with Academy sports as there lead sponsor. No other reason.

Now,, forget that the closed circuit of the WBT is for women,, what if it was for Seniors 65 and over? For wheelchair fisherman? For an ethnic group exclusively? Any of these sinerios has the same affect and fault.

I would love to see a circuit for 43 year old guys from timmonsville that take bass fishing way to seriously offered a Classic slot-- I would sign up. LOL Sounds pretty rediculous doesn't it?

I have seen the old statement "the fish don't know if youre a man or woman" a few times on here-- Then why dont these PRO women fish the Opens-- CURRENTLY there are two I am aware of. They are welcome to compete on the same level- no gender barier. You derive your own conclusion as to why the women don't fish the Open circuit-- I think its pretty obvious or there would BE NO womens circuit.

If the fish don't know the differnce, then let the guys fish the WBT-- HUMM,, don't think the ladies would like that much.

Why not let the OPEN champions, and the Elite Champion, and the Federation champs fish the WBT championship? Yup,, that would be like the foxes in the chick pen and wont fly either.


Well, with all of that you still need to address the response - "what are they upset about,, it doesnt affect them"

Well, it does in few ways. For one, it waters down the true accomplisment of making it to the classic. Ellite anglers must beat the best in the world all in one group to get there-- this is NO small feat. Open anglers must beat 150-200 of some of the best up and coming talent,, and 20-40 seasoned FLW-ELITE pros on top of that. The Weekenders, have to beat there division, place way up in a regional against mostly local pros, then WIN the National event against guys that are pros in there own right,, no Idea as to a head count but its up there. NOW,, the Federation-- wow,, literally 1000's of competitors and you have to be #1 in the end to make it. All of these ave's are available to the women.

Second,, look at all the coverage for Kim-- once again,, happy for ya and the first woman should get coverage regardless of where she finishes-- but that is coverage that was not given to another deserving angler-- one angler that's carreer could be made or ellevated by being there. Kinda like a few years back when Jerry McKinnis would run down a leader board -- Skeet in first, KVD in Second, KJ in third and IKE in 62nd-- What?? who was 4th or 5th??


Point being-- Everyone else goes thru way more to be at the classic than this slot for the ladies. Open the WBT for the men and a bunch would be there. Heck,, I would be there! Bet Swindle would even go in drag if they would let him in LOL.


A better reward-- Give the ladies a ticket to the Elites for winning the championship. If there good enough, they will make the classic and stay at the Elite level. IF not, they're back in the girl league and no foul."

[3dkicker]

Originally Posted by bamabassman

ok, 3d, i am thinking about it. but please explain your position a little more for me. give me examples of what you are telling me. i want to get a mental picture of it truly. if you are talking about say....tennis, ping pong, bowling etc, i still have a hard time seeing it. this is interesting to say the least.

Bama I hope this helps.

There are approximately 13 motor abilities (depending on who you read). Two examples are eye hand coordination and tracking a moving object. If you have two fishermen who compete and one has better coordination and can track moving objects better then his/her casting ability to a cruising bass (a skill) will be better. The person with the weaker or less ability, no matter how much they practice, will never be able to cast as well as the one with the better ability.

Between men and women there are differences in the motor abilities. Men are better at some and women at others. It's just natural differences due to physiology like the differences in the nervous systems. So men may be better at some aspects of fishing due to these differences while women may be better at others. And this is true with all sports and activities that are based on abilities and skills.

When you get to an elite level and very talented individuals are competing, the differences become enormous. Take KVD's ability to flip/pitch baits up under docks. I could probably practice for months or years and I would improve but because he has better motor abilities I may never be as good as he is. And on those days in which bass are way back under docks and will only hit a soft presentation then no matter how hard I try he will have an advantage over me.

WTL Funny!

[bamabassman]

ok, 3d. i understand what you are talking about. but i still don't see where fishing is an issue here. so i am gonna stand by my word, if a woman can make it..more power to her. and i really think that they should get rid of the gender thing in fishing. also in hunting. that's all from me on this. i can understand in other sports, men are stronger than women in general. but we are talking about fishing mostly. so again i stand by my statement.


and i too will never be as good as MOST other folks when it comes to flipping and pitching,hahahahahahaha.

[Jigger]

Originally Posted by Brett M

The Weekenders, have to beat there division, place way up in a regional against mostly local pros, then WIN the National event against guys that are pros in there own right,, no Idea as to a head count but its up there. NOW,, the Federation-- wow,, literally 1000's of competitors and you have to be #1 in the end to make it. All of these ave's are available to the women.

Actually, Mark Zona on ESPN the other day said that it is estimated the Fed Ntn Classic Qualifiers have to fish through 30,000 other anglers to get there, possibly the toughest route of all.

Brett,
Well said and well reasoned. Like you, I'm 100% in favor of women, minorities, seniors, handicapped or any other group you can think of earning their way into the Classic on their merits but I am sick and tired of this Political Correctness in this country of mine that says because you are one of these folks, we're going to forget merit and in essence give you a spot in Med school, law school, college, a job or a berth into the Bass Master's Classic ahead of someone more deserving who is better qualified and let you fish for half a mil along with others who made it the hard way just because you fit into one of these politically favored groups.

[Lancer6]

[quote=ky southern;228849]me and the wife was watching when the guy said she shouldnt be there...[quote]

That was Bernie Schwartz (which, trivially speaking, is actor Tony Curtis's REAL name.) I too was pizzed at his remarks and I was deeeeee-lighted to note that that jerk finished 40th or so. I hope the fargin' bastadge never. ever, gets so much as a bump from a carp. A55hole!
Kimmy didn't place well, but given the nerves that must have been raw from all the hoopla I can understand. She'll do better if she gets another shot.
BTW, in case you hadn't noticed, she DID beat Mr. Hair...errrr...Velvick, although she didn't beat UP on him the way the lovely and dangerous Mary Delgado has on more than one occasion
Anyone remember her being arrested last year? Good times!
Linky (read the additional columns below the pic.)
http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/20...gado-mug-shot/

L6
Kimmy Fan

[bamabassman]

even if it is a "mug" shot..she still looks hot, hahahahaha.

[zooker]

i have another one..

but here ya go..





zooker

[bamabassman]

yea......... THAT WORKS!!!!! let em fish , let em fish.