Am I cruel?

[joedog]

Once again, a tree hugger attempted to tell me what a pice of s*** I was for fishing. I don't have alot of time or patience for these folks, so my standard reply is, " I, catch and release fish!" She said, "How would you feel if I put a hook in your mouth?" Which I replied, "Probably the same as you would with my foot up your a**! ( I know inappropiate, but back to the patience) But I briefly explained that fish are wired different than humans and they actually don't have nerve endings even in thier mouths hence, no pain! Why do you think they can eat bream and things like crawdads.?. No nerves no pain. Now, am I right, not about the fishing part, the pain part? Hey, you young gentlemen still in school, "Would you ask your biology teacher this question for me?" Also someone earlier was looking for quotes, may be good topic for a paper, you will get the attention of none sportsman as well as sportsman.

[lilmule]

Not even teachers are immune,so many different studies some showing pain,some not,varying degrees thereof.
Me id like to think she has more time on her hands than needs.
I believe god put all on this earth for us to utilize,the rest is immaterial.
Studies also show they prefer food that doesnt stick them over that which does,does not however indicate pain but easier prey with less effort in many cases.Most fish tend to not expend more energy then the food is worth.
Does the bass or any fish ask itself why its eating something else,no as only man has reasoning,some of us tend to put it to better use.

[bassboogieman]

You cannot reason with those individuals, and being it was a "she" you can't hit her. So, what do you do? Totally ignore their prescence, do not respond in ANY way - that's why they confront total strangers, they are looking to provoke people, not a reasonalbe discussion of facts. OR, call the cops and say she solicited you for sexual favors in exchange for cash, she won't be hassling other fisherman while the cops talk to her.

[mrmuskie5]

UHHH! Man i cant stand tree hugging patchouli wearin " dont step on that ant it has a family you know" A-hole hippies! I've had this same argument with many a "activist" all the while they have their $400 louis vuitton hand bag at their side. "where did that leather for that bag come from?" " you dont think that cow was scared when they corralled her into a tiny shoot and shot her in the head?" UHHH LOL! sorry about the rant but this stuff burns the heck out of me. my rule:you do your thing ill do mine and unless its hurting the world as a whole keep your hole shut. peace im out.

[Flippin TN]

I guess I'm a tree hugger but I'll cut down a tree in a heart beat if it gets in my way or I find a need for it other than it just standing there.

Same with fishing and hunting, I don't use snares or dynamite. I release about everything except eatin fish. I don't make my clothes from the hides of critters I shoot but I do tan it and make things like covers for my rifles and favorite rods I've made.
I love trees and birds and flowers and frogs etc. if some one is so stupid as to come up to me, a total stranger, and call me a piece of $hit I'll flatten their friggin nose and if its a female I'd probably whip it out and ruin her new jogging shoes.

I have a few trees in my yard I've about gone to jail over when the electric company tried to cut them down and they're still standing.

I try to respect all life except maybe the loonies but I don't go out of my way to "mess" with them.

Its not hard to love a tree. Even more so when it made me a nice camp fire to take off the evening chill as I cooked a nice cut of venison or fillet of stripper.

Some folks are just looking for trouble and I can be pretty darn accommodating. Who sang the song went something like "if your lookin for trouble look right in my face" and I always thought the "cumbaya" tune was a catchy tune while I build my wood campfire.

Yep I;m a tree huggin sob.

[nofearengineer]

I'm pretty sure most of you know where I stand on this type of issue. While a staunch Conservative, I love animals and nature. I am fascinated by it all and awed by the sheer beauty of it.

But these hippy-dippy types really make me angry. Mostly because they are intellectually dishonest. If they really want to reject societal norms, they need to stop living off of the sweat of others and go live naked in a mud hut somewhere in their beloved forest and enjoy their 30 year life expectancy, due to disease, famine, and predation by animals.

The problem with our democracy is we allow too many people a voice without asking them to earn that right. Our founders warned against a democracy, for they knew all about the perils of mob rule by the stupid and reactionary.

[WaffleJaw]

Its amazing how they can cheer on cage fighting sports,then act so disgusted about something so trivial like fishing...We do so much more damage on our own species.
Another person who reached a conclusion before conducting any research.

As far as fish feeling pain...From what Ive read,They feel pain but not in the same consciences like we do....They know something is wrong and self perseverance kicks in.

[PAfisher76]

I will start off by saying that I'm a half a** vegetarian.I say that because I eat no meat except fish.My theory is that fish do not feel pain,if they did they would flop around alot more when you remove a hook from their mouths.The reason they fight when you hook them is they don't understand the force that is pulling against them,not pain.Besides if they could feel wouldn't they try and get out of the water when it is freezing cold.I don't understand why people must try and push their belief's onto others,just live your own life.

[joedog]

Pa, thank you for your reply , and everyone else, but the not leaving or trying to leave when water gets freezing has to do with them being cold blooded (don't feel cold) but every thing else you mentioned sounds reasonable.

[nofearengineer]

My point is that whether they feel pain is irrelevant. Duckies, bunnies, cows, chickens...you name it, they all feel pain. And they're delicious.

Dumbarse hippies, who love to talk about getting back to nature and all of that nonsense (we don't have fur for a reason), seem to be purposefully blind to the fact that animals eat other animals. Humans eating animals is totally natural...you would think they would embrace it.

If you're a vegetarian for health or nutrition reasons, I can understand it (I don't totally agree with it, but I UNDERSTAND it, as it's your right to eat whatever the heck you choose). What I can not stand are tree-huggers who are vegetarians because it's "nicer." When it all hits the fan and we're left fending for ourselves, there will be a lot fewer vegetarians left, either because they give in and eat the good stuff, or they starve to death like idiots.

[Tavery5]

I think it is easy to pick at things that you do not understand completely or have an appreciation for, the last thing that most anglers and hunters that I know want to do is torture or be cruel to animals.

I can see where people who have never had the opportunity to hunt or fish would have vastly different opinions than those of us who have.

I will go on record as saying that I am an animal lover, I would much rather look at, take pictures of, or catch and release than other options. I do respect the right of each person to make his or her own decision about this, if more people would worry about taking care of themselves when it comes to matters like this, than being worried about what someone else is doing, these things would be non issues.

[carolina-rig-01]

Idle hands are the devils advocate. These people just have so much spare time on their hands that they have nothing better to do. However they don't understand what they are fighting against. They think they are standing up for an animals rights but they are actually standing up against past times that have been passed on to us from the generations before us who also fought to give these jackwagons the rights that they abuse like freedom of speach. The biggest thing going on right now with animal rights groups is fighting against hunting. They don't see things in the same rationale we do. In reality if hunting was illegal then wildlife numbers would explode in an unhealthy manner and we would see mutated animals from inbreeding. Also insuriance premiums would sky rocket from claims for hitting deer or elk, food prices would go through the roof because crops would suffer from higher animal populations, or what about the money that goes into all the conservation areas where these yahoos like to go bird watching from the Pittman Robertson act?. I know that not all of this is realitive to fishing but the same principal applies. Whether they fish or not is up to them, but they can't deny that fishing is still benificial to the economy of which they gladly take handouts from.

I think the foot up her *** answer was the one you should have gone with.

[bamabassman]

well.........i say you did the right thing.......telling her she would feel pain with my foot in her arse........but she may like that sort of thing. most of those people are on the kinky side. lol.


these people are derainged really. we are at the TOP of the FOOD chain folks. it's called the circle of life (yes, jsut like the cartoon from disney). they eat the grass or whatever, we eat them. then we go back to the dust from which we were made. and it stats all over agian. i feel no remorse eating ANY animal. GOD geve me a sense of taste for meat. so i eat MEAT. ANY MEAT, wheather it be cows, pigs, chicken, fish......whatever it may be.

next time one of these people come up to oyu pal, ask them if THEIR parents eat meat. if they tell you the TRUTH, most likely her parents do, and her grandparents did as did the ancestors before them.
like i said, these people are derainged.
fishermen have done MORE to PRESERVE our rivers, lakes and streams THAN ANYBODY. hunters too.

[TN_Bassin]

I think the whole reason behind this never ending feud is, the tree hugger (radicals) won't tolerate anything other than what his or her beliefs are. And that irks me. Most hunters I know kill a few deer early in the season for meat, then finish up with a trophy hunt... not go on deer killing sprees as PITA would have people believe. And huggers hot over fishing are worse. I've had people pretty well destroy good fishing days by purposely running their boat close to mine...

[Dogmatic]

I was going to stay out of this debate, until I read a few of the more recent comments, and I am new to this site, but...In reality, right now it's time for Sportsmen, and Environmentalist to join forces against those that conspire to destroy OUR natural resources in the name of profit. There are radical or poor examples on both sides, and it's up to those in the middle, true stewards of nature, and the environment as a whole, to come together and protect it, no matter what side of the political spectrum you may stand on. We our losing more and more of our lands and waters each and every day, and once they have been destroyed, it's our children that will be missing what I, and probably most of you, feel is an essential element of living a full life.

[nofearengineer]

Dog, I'm with you, but I have a question.

Do you want them to tear down all of the dams that have helped create the modern sport of bass fishing as we know it? They're not natural.

[Flippin TN]

The Lord gave us fingers and a thumb. The thumb is for controlling a cast and preventing backlash or taking off the safty on your rifle or shotgun , the four fingers are for gripping the rod handle or foregrip on the rifle or shotgun..

The middle finger is specifically for those who wish to mess up a good day of fishing or hunting with their stupid opinion.

[Dogmatic]

@nofearengineer...I am not for the removal of all dams,(I would lose my primary fishing spot), unless they actually are hinderences to the natural order, and survival of wildlife. Let's face it, there are differences in dams. The dams on the rivers of the Northeast, as well as the Northwest have decimated the Salmon, shad and striper runs. The dams in the Southwest, are much more difficult to deal with because they have human populations dependant on them, but it doesn't change the fact that they are environmental disasters. The dams of the South, and Southeast, that were, and are so important to the growth of bass fishing cannot be looked at the same way. Thus, all dams are not created equal..."Not natural" has nothing to do with the proper stewardship of our resources. "Not natural" are the cocktail of chemicals and compounds inadvertly, or purposely dumped into our waterways by industry,(all industries).

[Flippin TN]

Its not easy to find the perfect balance for sure this spring when they had to flood homes and habitat to save homes and habitat, it had to be a tough one to bear (depending on what side of the dam you lived on). To know your home would be saved with the release was truly bitter sweet. Thank god for dams

I think org's like Trout Unlimited have made really valuable contributions when they were able to remove some of the smaller no longer value added dams on smaller waters and doing so without destroying the habitat below, at the same time restoring the environmental quality for both sides of the barrier, quite a challenge. Thank God for Trout Unlimited (oh and they're fishermen on top of it....imagine that).

Watch what happens when the "energy freaks" (and its already begun) begin decimating the entire habitats in the mideastern states, Pa. Va. Oh. to get the price of gas down to something that's sane. Wheres the balance? Picking ones battle is as important as winning it.

Back to the original post. You'll can't fix stupid and it seems to becoming epidemic.

[Dogmatic]

This is the statement that kinda set me off.."The problem with our democracy is we allow too many people a voice without asking them to earn that right. Our founders warned against a democracy, for they knew all about the perils of mob rule by the stupid and reactionary." The problem with it, and all paraphrasing of our "Founding Fathers" is that it misses the point. Our founding fathers saw the solution to "Mob Rule", as not a denial of rights to it's citizens, but the duty of our "democracy" to educate it's citizens. As De Tocqueville, an early French observer of our young "democracy" said(and I am paraphrasing) "...it is the educated populous, the everyday, average citizen, his desire and his right to a public education that makes this American experiment great." Hunting and fishing ARE NOT societal "norms" anymore, and it's up to us sportsmen to educate the vast majority of the public, not through ridicule, derision, or even violence, but through continued good stewardship, and by example...pick up your garbage! Pack out more than you pack in! Use sound C & R, and harvesting practices. Most importantly, educate yourselves on the subjects that are most important to this noble goal we should all have...renew, preserve, protect, our precious nature resources.
__________________

[nofearengineer]

Dog,

I love De Tocqueville dearly, really I do...but he was not one of our founders. Only a couple of our founders placed any emphasis on the duty of the government to provide education. This country didn't really have much of a public education policy until the middle of the 19th century.

But I digress (translation: let's not argue about irrelevant garbage).

My point is, the tree hugger in question is obviously an uneducated person with a large, loud mouth who speaks of what she does not know. We have freedom of speech in this country, but actual opinions ought to be reserved for those who know what the hell they're talking about.

The dams in the South and Southeast can't be looked at in the same way? Just because a "natural resource" is something you happen to like, doesn't make it correct. Man-made reservoirs are no more natural than the chemicals you claim are upsetting the natural balance. Be consistent in your positions and arguments.

[Dogmatic]

Real quick...re-read my post, I never state De Toc is a "founder"...second, my problem with your statement is that it's fundamentally un-American, and flies in the face of our "Founder's" vision. But let's not argue over ignorance, "tree hugger" or "hillbilly", ignorance will be the downfall of us all.

[Tavery5]

[QUOTE=nofearengineer;353127]
freedom of speech in this country, but actual opinions ought to be reserved for those who know what the hell they're talking about.
QUOTE]


I think you may have hit the nail on the head, both sides believe equally that they know what the hell they are talking about.

[nofearengineer]

Our founders specifically did not want a democracy...that is why they founded a republic.

The United States Constitution does not contain any form of the word "democracy". Not one single instance.

However, Article IV, Section 4 states:

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence."

It appears you are misguided about what is "American" and what is "un-American". Probably just a side effect of a good public education.

[nofearengineer]

Originally Posted by Tavery5

I think you may have hit the nail on the head, both sides believe equally that they know what the hell they are talking about.

You are quite right, Tony.

But I bet we're in agreement that while they both believe, only one of them is correct in their belief (or at least, has based their belief on something more than "I saw Bambi once...hurting animals is bad.")