Am I cruel?

[Tavery5]

I don't know Bryce, it has been my experience that when two parties disagree strongly on a matter the truth usually tends to be closer to the middle. Your Bambi reference while funny, kinda shows a closed mindedness. Remember the earth is flat, and is in the center of the universe, we need to burn witches, and slavery was a great idea. Guess I am just saying try to keep at least a small part of your mind open to other possibilities.

[Dogmatic]

"A democratically elected Republic"...how do we "appoint" our leaders, what is your definition of a Republic? We are a democratic republic, thus, what made De Toc, so enthralled with our system, we are unique. What makes you statement fundamentally "Un-American" is that it denies rights that are inalienable to human existence. I may not agree with you, or "Tea Party" values, as a matter of fact, when one speaks of ignorance, uneducted, intellectual dishonesty, "mob rule" or epidemics of stupidity it is the "Right" and their masses that comes to mind lately, but I don't believe you, and those that think like you should be denied your rights to express those opinions.

[nofearengineer]

If I weren't open-minded, I wouldn't debate.

Which, I did not debate whether fish feel pain.

I just came down on the side of "joe isn't a piece of s**t."

Perhaps joe can step in and we can debate that further LOL.

[nofearengineer]

Dog, I'm going to stop arguing with you, as you are doing a fine job of making my case all on your own.

Welcome to the site, and try not to eat any spoiled tofu.

[Tavery5]

I think sometimes we forget that a debate is a two sided discussion. Both parties have points that should be looked at. I don't think any of us know if fish feel pain or not, and if they do how they process it. I can tell you this, it is probably allot less pain then a cow, or chicken experience when they are processed at the slaughter house. I am on Joe's side in this as well, he most def. is not a piece of ****, and his rights were trampled on, by someone who had equally strong but oposite opinions of how things should be.

I just keep thinking how hard it would be to change my mind on this, and then I think the person on the other side of the coin must feel the same way.

[Dogmatic]

I have an anecdote...in 2000(then again in '04) certain "Sportsmen" organizations, I won't mention which,(but I am a life-time member to both of them, and one is advertised on this web-site.) "encouraged" in their editorial pages, members not to be fooled by the "hype", and "vote your sport". We all know what this meant...and under that administration my state of CO lost more than a quater of it's public lands, mostly to drilling, logging, and mining interest. You realize, that over a third of CO is public land, the Federal gov't alone administers over 22 million acres, between BLM and USFS(not to mention NP land). We stood by and let this happen. I watched my favorite GMU go from having one of the highest denisity of mule deer(4800 head) to one of the lowest, (1400 head), mostly do to gas drilling. Now, I live in the Northeast, and I see it happening again...what side do you think I should take? @Bryce(?)You're going to have to explain to me how the dams in the South and Southeast are "upsetting" the natural balance, compared to the dams in the NE or NW?

[Jrob78]

Originally Posted by Tavery5

I just keep thinking how hard it would be to change my mind on this, and then I think the person on the other side of the coin must feel the same way.

The problem is when one side feels it's their duty or business to try to change the other side's mind. One of my closest friends is a vegetarian, I respect her and she respects me. If she ever, EVER tried to push her views on me, that respect would be gone and vice versa. People need to learn to STFU and mind their own business. In this world of Facebook and Twitter, people develop an inflated sense of self importance.

[Dogmatic]

Joe isn't a POS, but did he handle the situation properly? IMO, No. you take the high road, and all creatures feel "pain", but anthropomorphizing doesn't help. and 100 year old tofu is a delicious, but so is bacon. and thank you Bryce, I live for this sh*t, it's just funny finding it on a bass fishing site.

[Bassboss]

Your sure right, it would make a good paper!!

But to answer your question.... Fish acctully don't have sophisticated enough brains to feel pain anywhere. The feel pressure, but not pain.

[Tavery5]

Originally Posted by Bassboss

Your sure right, it would make a good paper!!

But to answer your question.... Fish acctully don't have sophisticated enough brains to feel pain anywhere. The feel pressure, but not pain.

This is a great theory Boss, have anything other than this is your opinion to back it up?

[Tavery5]

Originally Posted by Dogmatic

Joe isn't a POS, but did he handle the situation properly? IMO, No. you take the high road, and all creatures feel "pain", but anthropomorphizing doesn't help. and 100 year old tofu is a delicious, but so is bacon.

Excellent point, I would say that the anthropomorphizing by animal lovers is one of the areas that would need allot of discussion.

[Bubba_Bruiser]

If your conscience leads you that it is wrong, you should probably find a different hobby or past time. I don't do things that make me feel bad about it.

[joedog]

I am as always, gratefull for everyones input, its been very intreging! But I must confess that I regret that I may have started a controversy amongst some of the members and that was never my intention! I personally respect all of your opinions!!!! Just an idea, lets forget this thread and read my joke instead. ( Self promotion) I absolutly love the fact that you folks and Kevin allow me to post anything at all. It may have been "nofear" whos opinion I grately respect told me that if I haven't offended anyone yet keep trying, am I getting closer? As always my apolgies to anyone that I may have offended!

[bluebasser86]

I'd like to stay out of the political debate and just respond to the OP's question. I don't think you did anything wrong. We have laws that make it a crime to interfere with lawful hunting or fishing so if she bugs you when you're fishing you could always ask her to stop or you'll report her. Those people have nothing better to do but worry about what someone else is doing that they don't like. If someone doesn't like fishing because they think it's cruel, that's fine, that's their decision but don't force it on me.
Like others have said, a human brain is way more complex than a fishes brain and feels things that a fish's brain does not. I remember seeing a study that supported what BassBoss said that fish don't feel pain, only pressure, and it makes sense to me. If fish felt pain in their mouths how in the world could they stand eating a spiny bluegill or crawdad? I've been finned by enough bluegill to know that putting a live one in my mouth and trying to eat it would be a bad idea. Also have you ever been fighting a fish in and just stopped reeling and let the line go slack? I've done it and as soon as the pressure of me reeling them in stopped, they stopped fighting and swam away slowly.
When you turn a fish loose a lot of times they swim away slowly, why would an animal that is injured and feeling pain not make a mad dash? An injured cat or dog with run like a blue streak to get away from whatever hurt them.
Anyways, until we figure out how to talk to bass we won't really ever know for 100% sure that they feel pain or not, until then, I'll see you guys at the lake

[joedog]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

If I weren't open-minded, I wouldn't debate.

Which, I did not debate whether fish feel pain.

I just came down on the side of "joe isn't a piece of s**t."

Perhaps joe can step in and we can debate that further LOL.

Sorry I missed this before! I suppose it depends on who you ask, but I hope the majority agree with "nofear" on this one!! Even if I am, I'm 5'5'' 130lbs., so at least I won't be plugging up to many of "Lifes Toliets" that I think we all fall into now and then........Now am I a s**tty fisherman? Hopefully,if invited, someday I can join your get togethers and we can all debate that across a nice campfire. I was told once, "Joe, not everyone likes you, but no-one ever forgets you!" Side note, may everyone have the best fishing weekend they possibly can !

[kennethdaysale]

This is GREAT!!! I am glad to be a white, conservative, married, straight, successful, Christian, conservationist, bird watching, woodworking, hand pouring, hunting, fishing, meat eating member of this forum. I enjoy guessing that Dogmatic leans left and Nofearengineer leans right. Good for both of yall!!! Debate is good! Moderators that will allow it are smart! I used the improved clinch knot exclusively for 30 yrs (because thats the one my daddy taught me) I now use a palomer....why?? was my father an idiot? is something wrong with the improved clinch?? NO I just allowed someone to share their opinion with me.

[bamabassman]

joedog...take it easy pal. no one is getting upset, this happens ALL the time when foks DEBATE a subject. no one is gonna get mad at oyu. you didnot stir up nothing i promise.

kennethdaysale is correct. THIS IS GREAT. THIS IS WHAT AMERICA IS ALL ABOUT.


TALKING AOBUT OUR DIFFERENCES and coming to a central conclusion AND DOIN WHAT IS right for ALL AMERICANS is what WE THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE is what we should ALL strive for.

there are fantastic points on EACH SIDE. i may not agree with all of what is said, but i am learning. and THAT IS WHAT WE ALL SHOULD DO.....LEARN. there is not a doubt in my mind that there is MORE to learn form each other then any of us realize.

as long as we keep it sane in our statements and can back up our statements with proof, debate. but keep it civilized. and so far i see it as that. a VERY civilized descussion.

now my standis this. i love to fish, want to get back inot hunting but money is tight and i can't afford 2 hobbys so expensive right now so i'll stick to fishing. THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND where BOTH sides can have what they want.

[Top Tiger]

Do fish feel pain when they're hooked?? Don't know. But I do know that it's nothing compared to the pain they feel when I cuts off they's haids afore I puts em inna pan.

[bcklash]

Originally Posted by joedog

Once again, a tree hugger attempted to tell me what a pice of s*** I was for fishing. I don't have alot of time or patience for these folks, so my standard reply is, " I, catch and release fish!" She said, "How would you feel if I put a hook in your mouth?" Which I replied, "Probably the same as you would with my foot up your a**! ( I know inappropiate, but back to the patience) But I briefly explained that fish are wired different than humans and they actually don't have nerve endings even in thier mouths hence, no pain! Why do you think they can eat bream and things like crawdads.?. No nerves no pain. Now, am I right, not about the fishing part, the pain part? Hey, you young gentlemen still in school, "Would you ask your biology teacher this question for me?" Also someone earlier was looking for quotes, may be good topic for a paper, you will get the attention of none sportsman as well as sportsman.

Hook in a fish--no pain---------loud mouth b***h--pain in the azz

Originally Posted by Top Tiger

Do fish feel pain when they're hooked?? Don't know. But I do know that it's nothing compared to the pain they feel when I cuts off they's haids afore I puts em inna pan.

LMAO, that's funny

[Flippin TN]

Originally Posted by bluebasser86

.....a human brain is way more complex than a fishes brain....

There might be some evidence of that in a larger percentage of cases compared but there is always the accept-ion....

Please explain the terrible screaming each a every time a lobster drops into the pot. I usually can't sleep afterwords, (but I think that comes from a bad choice in the wine and an antacid solves that problem).

The name calling that must occur each time it happens (choosing a bad wine) you can't imagine.

Oh the agony of it all.....

[joedog]

bamabassman, thanks once again for guiding me thru my new adventure! Debate is something I don't shy from. Although even tho my opinion is always right (joking......maybe), I learn alot, and it's just that; my opinion. Old gentleman once told me, "I'm glad we don't all think alike or EVERYONE would be after my wife!" bama thanks again.

[bamabassman]

hahahaha...........now if i can only get you to root for the TIDE, oyu'll be just fine my friend. hahahahaha!!!!


and oyur old gentleman friend is right. if we all thought the same, nothing would change. be it for the better or worse.

[PAfisher76]

The fastest way to lose a friend and make an enemy is by talking about politics or religion.The one thing we all have in common on this site is our love for fishing, so why can't we keep the convo there.

[bassboogieman]

Well I'm still following my own advice. I have yet to have one of those demented humans give me a piece of their mind about either hunting or fishing. But should they, I will totally ignore their existance. Nothing irritates a human more than being ignored, think about that. They only get more enraged, at that point they may make the mistake of touching me or my boat, truck, etc. and at that point I can cease to ignore their presence and defend myself or my property, which is also very legal.

[nofearengineer]

Getting butthurt over a religious or political debate is lame.

I love debating regardless of topic. If you can't stay friends because you don't like losing debates, then I guess you shouldn't debate those things.

Frankly, I respect those who are willing to gird their loins and join the battle far more than those who constantly strive for consensus and fence straddling.

Unfortunately, nobody ever comes up to me and calls me a POS for fishing. That would be a lot of fun.