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Old 08-10-08, 08:15 PM   #26
buddy_fuentes
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Fifteen or twenty years ago I was at a sports show and they had a fishing line rep with a machine to test knots. He offered everyone a chance to tie their best knot and see how it held up. I tied the palomar and it went past the line test before breaking. I did it several times and each time it was stronger than you would have thought. The line would break and the knot would hold. We then tried the uni-knot and it held up almost as well. I never thought of it at the time, but if it would have been doubled going through the bait eye; I bet that it would have held as well as the palomar.

Since then those are the only two knots I use and I only use the uni-knot when I want more action out of a bait. I seldom use split rings on anything.

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Old 08-11-08, 12:19 AM   #27
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Any Palomar is a pal 'o mine, 'cept when I tie the &#^@%! J-Knot to join fluoro leader to braid.

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Old 08-11-08, 09:50 AM   #28
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Any Palomar is a pal 'o mine, 'cept when I tie the &#^@%! J-Knot to join fluoro leader to braid.

L6

How would you compare the unit to unit knot to the J-knot? I can tie the uni to uni knot better than the J-knot. Do you think the uni to uni knot is as strong as the J-knot?
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Old 08-11-08, 11:28 AM   #29
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I use three knots to take care of most of my needs.
Loop knot for my top water "dawg walking" baits (I also do this with my poppers, so I can walk the dog with them as well).

Palomar knots for tying just about everything to something (swivel, hook, crank bait, spinnerbait, buzzbait, etc).

double Uni knot for my braid to flouro (leaders), for drop shot, shakey, jigs, wacky, etc.,
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Old 08-11-08, 11:29 AM   #30
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How would you compare the unit to unit knot to the J-knot? I can tie the uni to uni knot better than the J-knot. Do you think the uni to uni knot is as strong as the J-knot?
FnG,

This is one of those issues that will simmer on forever. Frankly, I think either will serve in most cases. Still, I persist with the J($^%#@!)-Knot because I HAVE used both and have more confidence in it.
For years, long before braid was a tool common in our arsenals, I used a premium Dacron braid called Micron(TM), made by Cortland. Since it had far, far less stretch than mono (In those days, class, there was no Fluorocarbon.) It offered far more positive hooksets and, perhaps more alluring, it conferred vastly enhanced sensitivity. Since few of us owned graphite rods at the time, the VERY noticeable increase in the "Touchy-Feely Factor" led to our calling Micron "Poor Man's Graphite".
Well, all that being well and good, we still had to attach the MONO leader to the line. Soooooo...We tinkered with various knots, including the Uni and some others...everything but the Bimini Twist (that's not a dance, Jools!), and muddled along, knocking the rings outta those new-fangled Fuji guides on occasion and retying OFTEN.
I used the Uni when I first assayed to assault the bass with the braid/fluoro blend but felt there was something out there that might be better. Well, lo and/or behold, there is...The &^$%#! J-Knot...IN MY OPINION (Your experience may vary.)
The JK IS a beyotch to tie, especially on a cold day when the wind is shrieking and your fingers are numb, but I have experienced far fewer knot failures and knocked-out guides when using it. When correctly tied, all compact and tidy, it's tough and passes through guides without mishap. Tie it poorly and you court backlashes and wrecked guides.
In my experience there is NO joining knot more difficult to tie, with the exception being the Bimini Twist. Since we're not trolling for marlin we need not be concerned with THAT one.
Mastering the J means practice, practice, practice, using scrap line, and an attention to detail that's not characteristic of some fishermen. Frustration can set in easily when attempting to tie it and I oughta know. All that notwithstanding I still use nothing else.
Since you will lose several inches of both leader material and braid each time you tie the J I recommend you install a leader of at least 6-8 feet in length. This will reduce the number of times you tie it and thus save line 'n leader. Of course, there will be times when the J DOES break, though rarely, and nicks and frays may dictate scrapping a leader that still has a few feet of life left, but that's life.
I urge all to use a PURPOSE-made leader material, my fave being the P-Line CFX. True leader material, I believe, is tougher and more dependable than "casting" fluoro. For those that got suckered into buying Berkley Vanish or the Transition variant and find it useful for leaders, well, OK by me, but not FOR me. (Errrr...I admit that I bought several spools of V-Trans. I won't even use it for leaders.)

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Old 08-11-08, 02:27 PM   #31
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Would a Rapala Knot or (non-slip loop knot) be effective for a weightless fluke application? I was thinking of tying this knot straight to a 2/0 or 3/0 hook with a super fluke since this loop knot allows swimming lures to move more naturally. I was just wondering if anyone has tried this before with fluke or other swim plastic.
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Old 08-11-08, 05:32 PM   #32
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I have played with knots on the weightless fluke a lot. I have found that your hook placement has a lot more to do with the action than the knot ever will. I usually hook mine through the side rather than the body for greater action.
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Old 08-12-08, 12:59 AM   #33
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On knots to join a leader. I strung up two rigs for a fishing trip I did this weekend. We were fishing in a lot of weeds, downed trees and rocky areas. Both setups had powerpro 30 braid with a trilene 12 lbs leader. The only difference was that one rig joined the leader with a J-knot and the other was setup with an albright. My buddy and I were on the water for 9 hours and based on my observations, the J-knot held up better. The albright showed more signs of wear on the knot. Both did show signs of wear and have to be replaced prior to the next trip. My advice on the knots would be this. If you are worried about where you are going to be casting and the wear on the knot then I would suggest the J-knot. However, if you are looking for something easy to tie that is almost as good, then I would go albright. Additionally, if you are going to be changing out your leader often due to changes in your bait and presentation needs, then I belive the albright can be tied faster and the ability to tie it is not affected as much by weather. Wind really throws off my J-knot skills.
As I am using standard mono as my leader, I can not say that the results would be the same with Lancer's leaders.

That's just my 1/200th of a gallon of gas
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Old 08-12-08, 01:35 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishnngolfn View Post
Would a Rapala Knot or (non-slip loop knot) be effective for a weightless fluke application? I was thinking of tying this knot straight to a 2/0 or 3/0 hook with a super fluke since this loop knot allows swimming lures to move more naturally. I was just wondering if anyone has tried this before with fluke or other swim plastic.
I use a Palomar and when I rig a 2/0 or 3/0 offset hook to a plastic bait, the knot is inside the bait.

BTW, after reading this thread and playing with the J knot, I think it's easier to tie than the Albright and just might be my new favorite knot for joining to ends.
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Old 08-12-08, 01:55 PM   #35
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BTW, after reading this thread and playing with the J knot, I think it's easier to tie than the Albright and just might be my new favorite knot for joining to ends.
I conceed that I am probably not doing it right then. Mine seldom turns out on the first attempt.
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Old 08-12-08, 06:12 PM   #36
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I conceed that I am probably not doing it right then. Mine seldom turns out on the first attempt.
Well, I can't do the albright fer beans unless I use a nail or a straw to wrap the line around.
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Old 08-14-08, 12:09 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by buddy_fuentes View Post
Fifteen or twenty years ago I was at a sports show and they had a fishing line rep with a machine to test knots. He offered everyone a chance to tie their best knot and see how it held up. I tied the palomar and it went past the line test before breaking. I did it several times and each time it was stronger than you would have thought. The line would break and the knot would hold. We then tried the uni-knot and it held up almost as well. I never thought of it at the time, but if it would have been doubled going through the bait eye; I bet that it would have held as well as the palomar.

Since then those are the only two knots I use and I only use the uni-knot when I want more action out of a bait. I seldom use split rings on anything.

Buddy
A friend of mine did the same test and he used a version of the Jam knot and 10lb line broke at 14lbs with that knot. It's the only knot I use especially for Fluorocarbon. It works with anything. The Trilene guy couldn't believe it. My buddy wouldn't show him how to tie it either.

I haven't broke a fish off in years during the fight and very rarely do I break of on the hookset anymore either. I think it's better/stronger than a Palomar. JMO
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Old 08-14-08, 12:29 PM   #38
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A friend of mine did the same test and he used a version of the Jam knot and 10lb line broke at 14lbs with that knot. It's the only knot I use especially for Fluorocarbon. It works with anything. The Trilene guy couldn't believe it. My buddy wouldn't show him how to tie it either.

I haven't broke a fish off in years during the fight and very rarely do I break of on the hookset anymore either. I think it's better/stronger than a Palomar. JMO
And the one that got away was this big.

No offense, but that's not how it works. When knot testing is done, a knot is tied in piece of filament and it's loaded into the instron jaws with the knot approximately in the middle of the 12" or so strand. The instron is started and the stress / strain curve is charted as the line is stretched until it breaks. A knot in a line will never make the tensile strength of a filament stronger - it may not break at the knot (although it most often does), but the tensile simply can't exceed the stress/strain capability of the filament - a line breaks at the weakest point.

In your case, the tensile, although labeled as 10# had to be significantly higher.

Footnote: Most often in knot testing the filament does in fact break at the knot. This is due to the fibrillation seen in the knuckle of the knot bend as stress is applied.
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Old 08-14-08, 12:58 PM   #39
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And the one that got away was this big.

No offense, but that's not how it works. When knot testing is done, a knot is tied in piece of filament and it's loaded into the instron jaws with the knot approximately in the middle of the 12" or so strand. The instron is started and the stress / strain curve is charted as the line is stretched until it breaks. A knot in a line will never make the tensile strength of a filament stronger - it may not break at the knot (although it most often does), but the tensile simply can't exceed the stress/strain capability of the filament - a line breaks at the weakest point.

In your case, the tensile, although labeled as 10# had to be significantly higher.

Footnote: Most often in knot testing the filament does in fact break at the knot. This is due to the fibrillation seen in the knuckle of the knot bend as stress is applied.
I don't know exactly how the test went I just know I've had fewer problems with a Jam knot than any other knot I've ever used in the over 30+ years I've been fishing. The test showed it was much stronger then the trilene knot I know that. Regardless... use what you want. I know what works for me!!!

BTW... I don't have many "big one got away" stories... just pictures of big fish in my hand!!!
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Old 08-14-08, 01:13 PM   #40
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I don't know exactly how the test went I just know I've had fewer problems with a Jam knot than any other knot I've ever used in the over 30+ years I've been fishing. The test showed it was much stronger then the trilene knot I know that. Regardless... use what you want. I know what works for me!!!

BTW... I don't have many "big one got away" stories... just pictures of big fish in my hand!!!
Well, okay - but you see how no knot can make a filament stronger, right? With the best knots, the filament doesn't [even] break at the knot, but elsewhere along it's length with a tensile strength matching the avg. tensile of the fiber w/o knots. The worst knots not only break at the knot, but with reduced tensile strength... not what you want when you hook that biggun.

I didn't know anything about a JAM knot until your post. Looked it up and it seems like a reverse improved clinch knot. I have no idea how it would compare in knot testing with other knots. Whenever we did knot testing, it was with simple overhand knots to test the filament knot strength - not a comparison of different knot performance.
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Old 08-14-08, 01:55 PM   #41
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The articles that I have read on the Jam Knot say that knot does not continuously tighten as it is used. With other knots, the knot is further tightened through casting and catching fish. This will eventually cause "overtightening" of the knot and cause it to break or fail. If this is truly the case, I do not see this ever being an issue with me because I change out hooks and baits so frequently to where the lure or hook does not have enough time on the line to have the knot overtightened.

Maybe this will become an issue with me when I use a leader for my soft plastics and rarely change the hook. We'll see.
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Old 08-14-08, 02:00 PM   #42
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Well, okay - but you see how no knot can make a filament stronger, right? With the best knots, the filament doesn't [even] break at the knot, but elsewhere along it's length with a tensile strength matching the avg. tensile of the fiber w/o knots. The worst knots not only break at the knot, but with reduced tensile strength... not what you want when you hook that biggun.

I didn't know anything about a JAM knot until your post. Looked it up and it seems like a reverse improved clinch knot. I have no idea how it would compare in knot testing with other knots. Whenever we did knot testing, it was with simple overhand knots to test the filament knot strength - not a comparison of different knot performance.
I understand a knot doesn't make the line stronger. I was refering to the comparison in different knot's strength. Guess I worded my point wrong. I don't know how you test knot strength myself. I just know the Jam knot works well for me and I use it for just about every application. It's quick and easy to tie and works well with fluorocarbon, which I use a lot.
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Old 08-14-08, 02:11 PM   #43
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With other knots, the knot is further tightened through casting and catching fish. This will eventually cause "overtightening" of the knot and cause it to break or fail.
Not an issue for me because I cast like a girl and don't catch anything....
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Old 08-14-08, 02:15 PM   #44
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Well I make sure that my knots can handle the fish nuggets that I catch. I never know when I will hook into that 1/2 pounder and a 5# hawg will eat him before I get 'em to the bank. That is starting to look like my best shot at catching a big one.
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Old 08-14-08, 02:16 PM   #45
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The articles that I have read on the Jam Knot say that knot does not continuously tighten as it is used. With other knots, the knot is further tightened through casting and catching fish. This will eventually cause "overtightening" of the knot and cause it to break or fail. If this is truly the case, I do not see this ever being an issue with me because I change out hooks and baits so frequently to where the lure or hook does not have enough time on the line to have the knot overtightened.
I guess you don't catch a lot of fish then!!! J/k

Yea the knot is different from most. Something about the knot not being directly on the hook eye itself. I don't know how to explain it... I just know it's an awesome knot!
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Old 08-14-08, 02:41 PM   #46
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Well as of late I'm considering drop shottin fer minnows just so I can say 'fish on'.
Not to mention watching those darn shows on the outdoor website - Hank Parker and Bill Dance and the like - they hook the bigguns nearly every cast....I don't even see fish that big just swimmin by! I know, I need editing....just boil down those last dozen fishin trips to the couple of minutes I had fish on the line...oh wait, maybe...if...I...use...slow...motion.

lol
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Old 08-14-08, 04:19 PM   #47
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you forgot the much needed magnifying lense. that should make the bait fish look like hawgs for you
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Old 08-14-08, 04:29 PM   #48
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Y'all need to hook up with a couple like these... they will put a strain on your knot!!!



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Old 08-14-08, 04:48 PM   #49
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see there...special effects - that's the ticket! Using that blue or green screen... even making it look like real water behind 'em.

haha
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