Finesse = size, or finesse = presentation?

[Bob Smith]

What does it mean to you?

[lunker-lander]

To me, it's a 50/50. Anybody can throw an 1/8 Ounce PNJ, but it takes a certain few to get a good, steady bite on them...

-Lunk-

[Bob Smith]

That sounds good. I like to think in similar terms. I lean toward the "presentation" side a little more, because you can still "finesse" a large bait (IMHO) just as you can a tiny bait (which most folks refer to as finesse baits, as do several bait companies).
I hope this thread gets a lot of replies because I truly curious as to the many ways folks view this "method"..

[brushhog]

I think of finesse as strictly the way I'm presenting the bait. A skilled fisherman, (not me ) can finesse a large bait in certain situations.

That being said, the industry clearly defines finesse as begin related to size.

[pig n jig]

I cannot grasp the concept of a finesse jig.Those two words should never be in the same sentence, let alone be used in conjunction to describe the same thing To me , it means spinning equipment, 6 lb line and being on spots, I know have fish that aren't biting nothing. I often ask if I have to downsize and switch to finesse , or just slow down and thoroughly pick an area apart with the standard offerings ? P N J

[BigBassin144]

IMO, Finesse is partly how you present the bait, but to me, size the majority of it.

BB

[lunker-lander]

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

That sounds good. I like to think in similar terms. I lean toward the "presentation" side a little more, because you can still "finesse" a large bait (IMHO) just as you can a tiny bait (which most folks refer to as finesse baits, as do several bait companies).
I hope this thread gets a lot of replies because I truly curious as to the many ways folks view this "method"..

Great point about some companies labeling larger baits as "finesse". I had one jig that looked like a Flippin' Jig, and was labeled "1/2 Ounce Finesse". I don't want to know how big some people flip if that is considered finesse...()

-Lunk-

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by pig n jig

I cannot grasp the concept of a finesse jig.Those two words should never be in the same sentence, let alone be used in conjunction to describe the same thing To me , it means spinning equipment, 6 lb line and being on spots, I know have fish that aren't biting nothing. I often ask if I have to downsize and switch to finesse , or just slow down and thoroughly pick an area apart with the standard offerings ? P N J

The first small bait genre that I remember was the "slider" by Charlie Brewer, then came the Gitzit Tube that the Murray brothers made famous, but before those there were no real tiny baits in bass fishing.
You finessed an 11" worm, or a JIG (that one's for you PNJ), we even "finessed" spinner baits and balsa crankbaits. It was all about slowing down and being thorough just like you said.
Charlie Brewer changed all that, then came the California boyz and the Japanese. We kept getting smaller and smaller and slower and slower. I'm not knocking it because it dang sure works! With today's lakes getting the pressure they never used to get, the fish have gotten gun-shy!

Are there some more opinions and theories out there (I know Zooker will have to weigh in on this one! )? Bring them on, let's ride this one and see what we can come up with.

[JB]

I grew up finese fishing, and had plenty of the glider worms/jig. brown with orange paddle tail was the rage here on the ohio river.
To me finese fishing is a must on weather changes, high pressure n bluebird skies.
Also comes in handy for areas of water that are hit hard by tournament anglers.

For years the guys in my club would have one lure of choice to finesse the ohio river/creeks fish, and that is the hair jig. Most liked blue hair with black or just black.
The dark murky bass lakes like Indian an St. marys, everyone had a finesse bait, the gizit. Junebug, or more likely black with a neon chartruse tip. all the rage in the 80s..


Pin point the target and flip or pitch as easy as possible on the entry of water, and slow goes it on the presentation.
As always 99% of the guys tournament day will try powerfishing an bigger lures, but once they figure the bites not there, smaller and finesse is what you see.
Theres always someone that will weigh in a hog at weighin time, when everyone in the club thinks the bite was OFF that day.

[WallStreetAmigo]

A little bit more towards presentation for me. Certainly smaller size baits are much easier to finesse (for me anyway), so that does play a part as well. Having said that, I have used the drop shot (defined as a finesse technique) with large baits, so I think presentation is a bit more important in defining finesse applications.

On a totally off the wall note - the word finesse itself implies how to do something rather than what size bait you're using....just my 2 cents

[CarpMan]

I believe you can finesse with what ever you are fishing with as long as you are smooth and gentle with your bait presentation. I finesse 8 and 10in worms. I also know good equipment and the right combination have to come into play if I’m gonna finesse these types of plastics.. Its old school.

[JB]

good point, i totally forgot to mention the action of the lure/ lighter line etc

On hard conditions i may opt to use lighter line, and let the lure sit more and just twitch the rod tip for the action. Of course having a specific target to throw to is a big part of the equation.

[Bob Smith]

This is getting better by the posts! Keep it coming!

[pig n jig]

I would have never guessed the slider worm came in so many different colors.I only bought Black and it worked very well.I used these heads with them. P N J

http://www.nbswebstore.com/cgi-bin/w...ER%20-%20SUPER

[carolina-rig-01]

to me finesse usually means the presentation, but not always. usually i think of a spinning rod and light line anywhere from 4# to 8#. pnj, to me a jig is a jig. i don't mean all jigs are the same, in fact there are a bunch of jigs out there i wouldn't throw and only a handful of brands that i like. but i throw my finesse jigs on just as heavy line as i throw bigger jigs like football heads. and i will flip finesse jigs a lot and flipping and pitching is anything but a finesse presentation. i think of fishing a tube as a finesse presentation, but flipping a tube certainly isn't finesse fishing at all. would you think of a split-shot rig with a 5" senko as a finesse presentation? what about throwing that same senko on a carolina rig with 20# line and a 1oz. weight?

[Bob Smith]

Charlie Brewer Jr. has got the company now and they are still producing some dynamite product! They've have some bigger hooks now and some 5" worms that are super! But the originals have definitely stood the "Test of time"!

[lizardsrule]

Finesse fishing is easy, just slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww down whatever you are doing. It usually means going to plastics for me, because the reaction bite isn't working. I finesse 8 inch lizards, and 1 oz jigs, so size isn't a necessity in all situations. With that being said, it was hard to beat a 4" worm on the Ohio River when the bite was tough, but that may have been more a bait to size ratio. What I mean to say is that if the food the fish are eating is smaller than a 6 inch worm, or big crankbait, then coming closer to the actual size of their food is usually a good idea. You know, "match the hatch" in tough conditions.

Lizards

[Fish2win]

It can be both but it is also a manner of rigging and presenting. Would you not consider stitching, or split shotting a finesse method,or drop shotting or wacky rigging finesse? It is all the above, shakey head, lead head size and presentation.It is non-power fishing. Fish2win

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by Fish2win

It can be both but it is also a manner of rigging and presenting. Would you not consider stitching, or split shotting a finesse method,or drop shotting or wacky rigging finesse? It is all the above, shakey head, lead head size and presentation.It is non-power fishing. Fish2win

I would most definitely consider those methods "finesse", but you don't necessarily have to use tiny baits to do any of them (you can and most folks do, but the method = finesse, not the bait).
Not argueing, because everyone has an opinion and none of them are wrong. My experience in finesse fishing leans, very much, in favor of the point you just made.

[lunker-lander]

Finesse(Noun): 1. adroitness; skill 2. the ability to handle difficult situations diplomatically 3. cunning; artfullness

That, according to the Websters New World Dictionary And Thesaurus says that "finesse", requires skill, or adroitness. That being said, it's not just size, but how you work it or present it. So, what baits would you consider "finesse" or "using finesse"? I would say:

>Jigging Spoon
>Drop Shot
>PNJ's
>Walkin' The Dawg

Just gettin' ya thinking...

-Lunk-

[Bob Smith]

I love thought provoking topics! Especially ones that so many of us take for granted. It always turns out to be little more than most folks think.

[carolina-rig-01]

L.L.
1. dropshot: i would consider this as a finesse presentation
2. jigging spoons: maybe finesse but kinda in my grey area.
3. jig fishing is not finesse fishing, at least not to me.
4. walking the dog: i can't see throwing a spook, sammy, ect. as a finesse approach. i like the fact you went to mr. webster for an answer though, and it made some good points. but saying it requires skill? every aspect of fishing requires skill, at least to be good at it. even picking out backlashes (i have seen some backlashes that would make you think picking them out should be an olympic event).

[lunker-lander]

True, but some take more than others, especially the ones that don't always produce for us...

-Lunk-

[vagabond]

Finesse fishing to me......It has nothing to do with the size of bait I'm using. To me, it's about making perfect, thought out casts and retrieves. Everything is planned out from the approach to the cast to the drop and the retrieve. It's taking the time to feel what's happening on the end of the line.

Before I got into bass fishing a little over a year ago, I would strictly fly fish for trout. Here's a short story on how I learned to fish slow.

When I was growing up, I lived out past the boonies about a quarter mile from a small stream. I'd go fly fishing almost every day of the summer with my two brothers. We always had to stay together and would hike from hole to hole. This was a pretty small creek and with back casts and side casts, there was only room for one person to be fishing in a hole at a time.

Our rule was we would get five casts and then we would move aside and watch. Because of greed, all three of us learned to make every cast count. Perfect placement, perfect presentation, maximum drift and perfect hook set. To me, that's finesse fishing.


It's very hard for me to do well with a crank or spinner bait because it's happening too fast for me. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing or looking for while I'm realing. I'm going to force myself to get better this year. Every second outing I am going to leave the plastics and top water's at home. I'll be out there with nothing but buzz baits and crank baits.
Hopefully, by doing this I can just start fan casting and become a more balanced angler.

[WallStreetAmigo]

vagabond, you are miles ahead of guys like me. I took up bass fishing a little over a year ago myself and it took me almost all year to learn to be patient and to focus on making every cast a good one. I would rather have had a background like yours because speeding up should be a lot easier than slowing down!