Has technique been a factor or product advacement ?

[CCbass]

I say this because I see alot of posts by young posters and the result for the situation by older posters, and they seem to be the same as info I learned back in the 80's. Then I see posts from people wanting old lures for a situation feeling the modern alternative does not compare. Just seemed to be something to be asked, have bass changed or have we the fisherman changed being more sucked into bait companies and what we need to fish.

[wareagledc]

as far as using old lures and techniques, i say if it aint broke don't try to fix it. but fixing it and refining it is different. and yes and no to fisherman getting sucked in to bait companies. you really only need about 5 different lures to catch fish heck only one to catch some fish but to be consistant and to have the best opportunity to catch the most fish at any given time you need to be versital. in technique and lure. a rubber worm from 1980 still catches fish but a senko packed with salt and used right will catch more on a certain day. same goes for swimbaits that look just like a fish to a spoon that is just a flashy well spoon. i have seen fish hit a bare hook and some that would only bite a certain lure presented in one way. so my answer is yes and no technique has refined itself thru trial and error but the fact remains you have to find what the fish want on a certain day.

[CCbass]

I agree with you with the only need one lure to catch bass but disagree with the versital to be consistant. Did great fishing 11 tournies in a row 90% of the time the same lure did the damage. I was actually versital and caught fish on other lures before my major technique kicked in. Although I was very consistant I had no respect from most other anglers because they said I was not versital and only fished one lure, yet my results spoke for themselves.

[WTL]

Tom pretty much only throws red shad worms, or did, as I recall. There is a lot to be said for being a one trick pony, if you really do know that trick.

On the original question, there are some very real instances where new lures and techniques have actually been created. A good example is the soft-jerkbait craze. Nothing else looked like bass assasins.

But I think these cases are rare. More often that not you see a refinement of techniques. Take swimbaits. I know people will claim they are new and innovative. No. George Washington Perry caught his record fish on a CC Pikie. Its an oversized, doublejointed, shallow swimming lure which imitates large preyfish. The swimabit is hardly different in principle from that lure.

Bass have not changed, that is for sure. But bassfishing has become increasingly influenced by a certain style. The equipment people use - baitcasting versus fly -the ways they get to bass -tr 21s vs rowing or tubing - the locations they fish - reservoirs vs free flowing streams - the reasons for fishing - food or enjoyment vs competition - all create a tendency towards select tactics which lend well to the more modern constraints. But when you see a person who requests an older lure, be it a Johnson silver minnow, or a CC pikie or a creme worm, you might have just run into a man who fishes for the same reasons or in similar locals as his forefathers and who equips himself accordingly.

[CCbass]

My thought on the one trick pony, say you challenge a friend to fishing the same lake for three months and record weights and baits used to catch fish. They have x amount of wieght fishing lures that equal 5%,30%,10%,20%, ect. You have x amount of weight and have totals like 80%, 2%,1%,5%, ect. You end up having larger weights yet they are more versital. In tourneys these figeures mean nothing so what is the piont.

[bamabassman]

ok, gonna chime in here. lol. i say this, mainly cause i use old and new lures and baits, along with old styles as well as learning new ones. it all works.........ona given day. example; i took gbassman with me a few weekends ago. he caught fish on a fluke. i had the same fluke, didnt catch a thang, not even a nibble. i tried to use the exact same techinque as he did. but his was different than mine just enough to get the bites. not me. so i think that it is not only the bait, but the techinique. now the fluke is somewhat new, to me anyway. but the roostertail is old in my opion. nt many youngsters use this bait i don't think. and if there are fish out there i can usually catch em on a rooster tail. and it is MY techinque in using this bait that catches it. so there you have a case of different ways to to use old and new baits and techinques.



does this make any sense? hahahaha, it is early in the morning for me, forgive me if it sounds confusing.

[CCbass]

Okay did someone just mention roostertail and bass in the same sentance, or is it late and I need to go to bed.

[bamabassman]

what? you mean to tell me that you have never used a rooster taile in line spinner? well friend, i ALWAYS have one tied on. and yes it does catch fish, some big, some small. it is a standard in my bait selection.

[bingham]

Originally Posted by CCbass

I agree with you with the only need one lure to catch bass but disagree with the versital to be consistant. Did great fishing 11 tournies in a row 90% of the time the same lure did the damage. I was actually versital and caught fish on other lures before my major technique kicked in. Although I was very consistant I had no respect from most other anglers because they said I was not versital and only fished one lure, yet my results spoke for themselves.

were you fishing the tournies on the same lake?

[aikenyounggun]

jumpin of CCs post im gonna say i won my local club last year basically only throwin a shaky head.... didnt win a tournament but stayed consitant all year..... so you can catch fish on one lure all year..... but will you win on that lure? no not necessarily..... and there could be 10 better ways to catch more and bigger fish..... so you do have to be versatile defiantley to win and stay consistant at a high level......

like in the Elite series recently: tommy Biffle is the ultimate flooded cover fishermen.... yet does he ever do super well in the recent AOYs??? he very good at one thing but Alton Jones can consistantly catch fish on different things that will keep him in a tourney....(just used these guys as examples)

but now on the thread.... i think some newer things will catch fish but a lot of old things will too.... like yesterday i was watchin my dad on a different board and someone was askin "whether anyone still threw a zara spook?" ..... i was like "really?"..... i mean zara spooks are one of the best topwaters available but that guy had decided somethin newer was better......

technique also plays a big role.... if you dont know how to fish something correctly you wont catch as many fish(if you catch any at all) as the guy who does

[swimbaitkid]

I would rather win tournaments with a bigger fish technique(use a Trick worm instead of the finesse worm), I have won tournaments with 2-3 fish and beat guys that had a limit of 12iners, but I live and DIE by a big fish lures, I have caught a lot of fish but I have zeroed a couple of times

[carolina-rig-01]

what do you consider a new bait? crankbaits have been around forever so they aren't new, but then there are specific crankbaits that haven't been around long so do they fall in the new catagory or the been around a long time catagory?

i think that there are some old baits that for sure have their place today and probably always will. for example the wiggle wart, there is something about the wiggle wart that has been working forever and will probably continue to work forever. a lot of companies have made knockoffs and most of them catch fish too but i still think the good old wiggle wart is a great bait........at times, on certain bodies of water, and for certain situations. another example is the manns jelly worm. there are a lot of great plastic worms out there but the jelly worm still has it's place in my boat at times, other times i choose other brands over the jelly worm.

on the other hand look at new(er) baits that are out there that are very productive, like the senko. there are a lot of other companies that have versions of the senko but to me the regular yamamoto high dollar senko is better, maybe it's just me or maybe there really is something to it but while it's not a brand new bait by any means it is still fairly new and will out fish a lot of other baits in certain situations.

and by the way while i don't use a roostertail hardly ever, it is deffinatley a good bait and will catch bass. it's streamline, has a lot of flash and vibration.......what is there about it that a bass wouldn't like?

i guess to me it is a mixture of a little old and a little new. there are new baits that i just would never be without because they are very productive and the same can be said for older baits as well.

[JB]

new baits to me in the past would be like the chatterbait, techniques that are new for example like the drop shot...but looking back I think a lot of anglers always did experiment with split shots and worms, but it takes a winning pro and a magazine article to make it the new craze..
Bassmaster is infamous for taking a winning angler from a big tourney and marketing what he won on, its all driven by sponsors and monies paid for articles...and theres nothing wrong with that IMO

Techniques differ from lake to lake due to water clearity and structure.

I can't knock any of them, learning something new is what keeps us all in the game.

[ruasoonerfan2]

I use both old (Jitterbug, roostertails, zara spooks) and the new (swim baits and the jerk baits) they both work at times and they both don't work at times. Depends on the day. By the way Hildabrand makes a in line spinner that works the best for me (Snagless Salley) love this spinnerbait.

Good Luck and God Bless

[zooker]

Originally Posted by bamabassman

but the roostertail is old in my opion. nt many youngsters use this bait i don't think. and if there are fish out there i can usually catch em on a rooster tail.

rooster tails and mepps inline spinners have been catching fish for decades..the young guys have never experianced the inline spinner craze..they have all but faded out here.. just a hand full of folks will thro them..

Originally Posted by wareagledc

as far as using old lures and techniques, i say if it aint broke don't try to fix it.

thats the truth

Originally Posted by carolina-rig-01

for example the wiggle wart, there is something about the wiggle wart that has been working forever and will probably continue to work forever. a lot of companies have made knockoffs and most of them catch fish too but i still think the good old wiggle wart is a great bait........at times, on certain bodies of water, and for certain situations.

the original wart was molded by storm as a one piece jobby. when rapala bought out storm the changed the lure design. to a two piece design and they really can't sell this bait much..how ever guys who know the problem with the wart are looking for a 1 piece design.. jlv 's fatty shad II insantly pops in my head.


just because you have the greatest new bait means js when it comes down to knowing when and where on using it..

i firmly belive that bass get conditioned to certain baits..when you use something like a jitter bug that the bass have never seen afore you'll be suprised it still works..

zooker

[bamabassman]

dead on zooker. dead on pal.

[CCbass]

Binham this run was on five different lakes with a span of over a hundred mile between some of them. Different water color, vegetation ect. still caught 90% on the same presentation, mind you color,size,wobble did change between tourneys but still pretty much the same depth and technique.

[wareagledc]

if you change color size and wobble thats a whole different presentatio and technique to me.

[The Doc]

I catch the crap out of smallmouth on a roostertail. The one that is green on one side and orange on the other. Seems like every time I find a dam on a river that has smallmouth, I'll take that ol' roostertail I've had since I was 6 years old and toss that thing across the water and BAM! it's smallmouth time buddy! for a 22 yr old lure, it still works.

I have a theory about baits. I think that bass, as humans do, have a certain "memory span". If they see, say a senko, for the first time, they will eat it. And sometimes you can trick em into biting them for a few years, but big bass don't get big by biting anything that runs in front of them. Now say they havn't seen a Poe's RC 1 in 5-10 years cuz everyone out there is throwing the new baits, then their "memory" might not be able to recognize that lure as a threat as one of the newer baits they see daily. I don't know if it's true, but I know that this has been a true case for me. I went fishing a couple weeks ago, threw most of the shad colored crankbait I own at this one fish cruising the shore. I put an old RC 1 I found in a tackle store on and threw it and it was like throwing a switch on. The bass just ignored all the other lures, but that RC was chased down and mauled by this bass. I'm pretty sure not too many people (besides Zooker, LOL) have some 80's RC's in their box, but the proof is in the pudding.

[CCbass]

warealgedc true and my thought as far as what I did, but in there mind and some posters on here that does not equal being diverse. It was the same bait to them, which meant I was not versital.

[zooker]

Originally Posted by The Doc

I'm pretty sure not too many people (besides Zooker, LOL) have some 80's RC's in their box, but the proof is in the pudding.

shhh not so loud...


zooker