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Old 09-17-09, 10:30 AM   #26
doc
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I hope everyone who reads this sees what doc just did...AGAIN. I say "lesson plan", and then doc says he "read the speech word for word."

You keep dodging my point about the lesson plan by bringing up the content of the speech.
Srry, I'm a little slow. I am from the deep south
I was under the assumption we were speaking about the "SPEECH" to the children, since thats what I mentioned in my post. Just to double check I went back and read that thread. It started over the "I pledge" video, then ended on his school speech. I did see where you mentioned the education package that accompanied the speech, but since that was not talked about to our children, nor had any bearing on the subject of the thread in question (IE talking to our kids.) I don't understand your whole point behind the "lesson plan" and how that likens the man to Adolf Hitler.

His "lesson plan"? wasn't the topic, if you want to discuss that then please lets do, tho I have to admit i'm not very well versed on that subject, but any debate on some actual facts on this board is welcomed by me as long as we keep it in the realm of reality and not jump into calling the man "osama bin obama", "Hitler", "anti-christ" while at the same time completely neglecting the facts.
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Old 09-17-09, 10:46 AM   #27
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I'm not saying Obama has a deep-seated need to annex the Sudetenland. I'm just saying that those people who have concerns over how the man lets others do fascist things in his name have some legitimate concerns. Calling anyone who opposed the speech an idiot or moron is unfounded.

Frankly, the combination of seeing celebrities pledge to be servants of Obama (instead of the other way around) and seeing handouts asking 8 year old students how they could help the President succeed was troubling to me. All of this in the same week Jay Rockefeller introduced a bill that would give the President the ability to shut down private computer networks in the event of some undefined "cyber-emergency". Throw in a global push to spend trillions on controlling a gas that I personally, can prove in 5 minutes to someone with an open, educated mind has absolutely no effect on the climate like it is purported to. All of this in a year where the government took over the largest company in the world (GM), most of the major banks in the country, and is now attempting to run the additional 50% of the U.S. healthcare industry (it already runs the other 50%...Medicare and Medicaid...doing a great job too, right? They're both near bankrupt). The final straw is the H1N1 hysteria about a virus that doesn't even kill as many people as the regular influenza virus.

When is our Reichstag Fire going to happen?

Man...I'm having a bad year. I feel like one of the few lemmings who knows there is a cliff ahead, and is just getting shoved backwards towards it, kicking and screaming, by all the others.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:33 AM   #28
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I'm not saying Obama has a deep-seated need to annex the Sudetenland. I'm just saying that those people who have concerns over how the man lets others do fascist things in his name have some legitimate concerns. Calling anyone who opposed the speech an idiot or moron is unfounded.

Frankly, the combination of seeing celebrities pledge to be servants of Obama (instead of the other way around) and seeing handouts asking 8 year old students how they could help the President succeed was troubling to me. All of this in the same week Jay Rockefeller introduced a bill that would give the President the ability to shut down private computer networks in the event of some undefined "cyber-emergency". Throw in a global push to spend trillions on controlling a gas that I personally, can prove in 5 minutes to someone with an open, educated mind has absolutely no effect on the climate like it is purported to. All of this in a year where the government took over the largest company in the world (GM), most of the major banks in the country, and is now attempting to run the additional 50% of the U.S. healthcare industry (it already runs the other 50%...Medicare and Medicaid...doing a great job too, right? They're both near bankrupt). The final straw is the H1N1 hysteria about a virus that doesn't even kill as many people as the regular influenza virus.

When is our Reichstag Fire going to happen?

Man...I'm having a bad year. I feel like one of the few lemmings who knows there is a cliff ahead, and is just getting shoved backwards towards it, kicking and screaming, by all the others.
Ill start with this this is an exact quote from Bush Sr's speech to alice deal junior high school in washington DC Oct 1, 1991.

"Let me leave you with a simple message: Every time you walk through that classroom door, make it your mission to get a good education. Don't do it just because your parents, or even the President, tells you. Do it for yourselves. Do it for your future. And while you're at it, help a little brother or sister to learn, or maybe even Mom or Dad. Let me know how you're doing. Write me a letter -- and I'm serious about this one -- write me a letter about ways you can help us achieve our goals. I think you know the address.''

Now I do need to be the first to point out that the Democrats did make a stink about this speech, or rather where the funding for this speech came from. The stink that was made about this speech was that the Dept of Education funded it, and it wasn't an issue till after the speech. If the Republicans want to investigate the source of funds from the Obama speech, go ahead, if they were inappropriate Ill jump right on the bandwagon of that was wrong. But you do see right there the president asking the kids to write a letter about ways they can help us acheive our goals.

As far as the Private computer networks bill, that is a subject I can debate. I am an IT administrator for a financial institution. Ill start with the internet cannot be shut down completely by the US goverment. We do have to have plans in place that in the event of cyber-terrorism, key networks will need to be taken off the grid to protect them. Not shut down, taken off the grid, meaning the bank, electric company, gas companies.. will still run, but not networked thru the internet, making them less vurnerable to attack. Now surely since the republicans understand the need for anti-terrorism measures (phone taps, funds reporting, ofac checking) they also can understand having a plan in place to defend aginst cyber-terrorism.

Im assuming your speaking about green house gases and global warming. I see the argument on both sides.

Now for GM, and the banks. If these private buisnesses need financial help from the federal government then the government should have some stock in the buisness, otherwise we get bullcrap like we had with the first round of bailouts. Execs spending bailout money on Hawaii retreats that we the taxpayers have to pay for. That is not the government taking over that is the only way to protect their investment. If you loaned me money for my buisness to keep it from tanking wouldn't you want some stock in that buisness to ensure the protection of your investment?

Lets not forget that Bush expanded medicare and medicaid, but I have to admit defeat on the healthcare issue Obama's administration has it all wrong. In my opinion the reform needs to start with drug companies, and the way hospitals bill your insurance company. Outlandish prescription drug prices, and hospitals that bill you $25 for an asprin are most of the reason the average joe can no longer afford health insurance. It only makes sense that the ins. companies have to charge you more for insurance to cover the costs of expenses. So I think Healthcare reform should start there.
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Old 09-17-09, 12:08 PM   #29
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Doc, you are right about Bush 41's speech. And if Al Gore had finished inventing the internet by the time Bush gave it, I would have known about it before it happened and complained. I'm pretty sure both of us can agree that none of our past four Presidents has been about small government and government staying out of our way.

I understand the need to take critical utilities and things of that nature off the "grid." But I'm pretty sure the President already has the ability to do that (not 100% positive, but I'll look into it). You have to recognize the danger of allowing the government to control the flow of information. A lot of people are upset about the Patriot Act which lets them listen in on our conversations. Why aren't they upset at the prospect of them not letting us have the conversations in the first place?

I am in agreement with Al Gore on one thing: the debate about Global Warming is over. I'm not even going to address whether the planet is getting warmer. I'm simply going to say that carbon dioxide is incapable, by the laws of physics, of causing it. Plain and simple, no fence sitting platitudes...period. Carbon dioxide is no more responsible for warming than peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I really get tired of people who dispute this who don't even know what an exponential curve or absorption spectra are. I might as well be arguing with children.

As for the government bailouts, I was against them in the first place. If GM couldn't compete, they should have gone out of business. If you worked for GM...sorry for your bad luck. Get another job. If you have built your life around the belief that your job is guaranteed to you from 18 to 65, you're very short-sighted. Save some money for a rainy day and stop building your houses out of straw, little pigs. It's how the world works. Either admit to yourself and everyone else that you're an inferior human being or man up, stop whining, and start carrying your own water. The big government folks only use the excuse of "we can't let the businesses fail" to grab power.

Lastly, I don't care what Bush did to Medicare and Medicaid. I'd end them both tomorrow if I could. People need to start handling their own business in this country. If the government weren't giving away half of the available healthcare in the country to those who don't pay for it (or who pay much less than what it costs), the rest of us wouldn't have to pay more to compete with the artificial demand.

I will never stop arguing these points simply because I'm surrounded by those too apathetic to educate themselves with something other than Fox News and MSNBC.
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Old 09-17-09, 12:48 PM   #30
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Lastly, I don't care what Bush did to Medicare and Medicaid. I'd end them both tomorrow if I could. People need to start handling their own business in this country. If the government weren't giving away half of the available healthcare in the country to those who don't pay for it (or who pay much less than what it costs), the rest of us wouldn't have to pay more to compete with the artificial demand.

I will never stop arguing these points simply because I'm surrounded by those too apathetic to educate themselves with something other than Fox News and MSNBC.

This is my point Nofear, when you dig past the hype, and bull**** on both sides the facts are all thats left to argue about. It sounds like we actually agree on alot of the issues. I know it sounds like I lean alot to the Democratic side but, I pride myself in being an Independent, and not being blinded strictly by party affiliation, propaganda from one side or another, or blindly believing everything I see or hear because someone on TV told me so.

Have you ever heard that there is 2 sides to every story then the truth lies somewhere in the Middle? I might be wrong but I don't belive I have ever pushed my political agenda with words like; Hitler, anti-christ, called either side "the great narcissist" or "will most certainly surrender to the Grand Duchy of Fenwick should they land their army of one on our shores" This kind of nonsense does either side no good and perpetuates ignorance.

I do have to respectfully disagree with ending Medicare and Medicaid.
I have a disabled son (cerebral palsy) and without Medicaid I would be unable to pay his medical bills, get him the treatment he needs and deserves. Right now private insurance is not an option for him, the cost for insurance on him alone would bankrupt me and my family. My other children, myself and my wife all have insurance. I have a good job, work hard, take no other help from our government other than the medicaid benefits for my son. His bills from birth were 500,000.00 + dollars, every three months he recieves botox injections 6-8 injections that cost 1,500 a piece, and the cost of therapists 3 times a week.

If you could see the progress my son has made: he is in pre-school (private, christian, which we pay for not the government) with other children his age, smart as any other child, he does walk with a walker (better than a wheel-chair, tho this might change.) All of which I am positive would not be possible without the benefits he receives.
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Old 09-17-09, 01:11 PM   #31
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Tell you what, doc. I will wholeheartedly and gladly accept taxation that helps with your kid's care if I can stop paying for people who feel it is their right to live to 100 (it is), and hand me the bill (it is not). I'm sure he only represents less than 1% of Medicaid cases. Most of the others are parents who yes, can't afford to take their kid to the doctor, but because they didn't make good choices in life. I am tired of them holding a loaded baby to my head while they continue their freeloading.


Ahhh....I feel better now.
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