peta...and todays youth...

[zooker]

get ready cause this aint funny

in my honest opinion peta is nothing more than. uninformed hippi burnouts with nothing better to do that protest against hunters and fisherman.i grew up on my famlies farm we were not rich by any means. their were times if we did not shoot it we did not eat....

the liberal bleeding hearts can protest and whine all they want it is there right by law..
but by that same law i can protest against THEM..I shall protest by taking a kid fishing,teaching a younster to fish that has never done it before. and i shall sit down in the texas steak house and order a 32oz grade A all american made slab of BEEF. rare please why ? because i can, so i will..

teaching today's youth to fish is as important as teaching them to hunt. the young today are bombared by the crap peta is shovlin. which us of an older generation were not. todays youth MUST be taught the correct fundementals of life...


i have posted this on other sites..so i say every one of you elder guys even if you are 20 it is time to step up and protest against peta...

zooker

[River stumps]

Zook, I read your post on another site and I have to give you thumbs up. You said it all, nothing I can add to it. Well done. R.S

[454ss]

Well said Zook and when i become of age i will announce to the world and fight for what i believe.

[Marty]

Originally Posted by zooker

get ready cause this aint funny

in my honest opinion peta is nothing more than. uninformed hippi burnouts with nothing better to do that protest against hunters and fisherman.i grew up on my famlies farm we were not rich by any means. their were times if we did not shoot it we did not eat....

the liberal bleeding hearts can protest and whine all they want it is there right by law..
but by that same law i can protest against THEM..I shall protest by taking a kid fishing,teaching a younster to fish that has never done it before. and i shall sit down in the texas steak house and order a 32oz grade A all american made slab of BEEF. rare please why ? because i can, so i will..

teaching today's youth to fish is as important as teaching them to hunt. the young today are bombared by the crap peta is shovlin. which us of an older generation were not. todays youth MUST be taught the correct fundementals of life...


i have posted this on other sites..so i say every one of you elder guys even if you are 20 it is time to step up and protest against peta...

zooker

Zook, I am a "liberal bleeding heart", but many on forums have called me worse than that. Of course PETA has the right to legally fight against hunting and fishing, just as hunters and fishermen have the right to promote their views.

PETA is an extremist organization which is always pushing the envelope; nevertheless, it's a simplification to generalize that they're hippie burnouts with nothing better to do. Many people in the animal rights movement have strong beliefs against what they see as animal abuse. Hunting and fishing are so-called "blood sports" and it would be naive to think that they wouldn't have vocal opponents.

Outdoorsmen who are concerned about the messages that are being directed at our kids need to get more active and get their message out to the kids just as aggressively as the other side does.

And please, take it easy with those huge slabs of beef; I don't want to lose you because of clogged arteries.

[WTL]

No, Marty is right. They arent quite what I would call hippie burnouts, they are more 60s era leftist burnouts. (slight difference, but not much)


What is happening is the lack of an issue for people on the left to rail about is killing them. They used to rail against racism, and that produced the civil rights movement. Truly a great thing. Then they railed against sexism, which produced the womans rights movement. I guess on that they had many a point. After 1975 though, they kinda ran out of minority groups to promote. Some took up the banner of gays, others took up indians, some called to save the whales, and the rest decided they would just create an oppressed group to give them something to do - this was the origins of the animal rights movement. In short, PETA consists of a bunch of whiners who know of no better way to spend their time than to pad their own ego by fighting for human rights for things that arent human. I really think that many of them wish there was more opression in the United States so they could continue to hold sit-ins, cause this is the type of thing these people did for fun back in the days. Some of them are hoping that by some chance, one day they will suceed and all human manipulation of animals will stop - and that they will be able to crow about how they marched and pleaded to protect thse animals - but history will never record the animal rights movement as a civil rights movement, its not. Its a waste of time.


Now if they really wanted to find a movement that will one day be vindicated by history, they should fight for the rights of the unborn. Abortion will not last in this country, especially Roe v Wade, because common sense dicates that it is the killing of human beings. Like racism, the practice of abortion runs expressly counter to our national political foundations. PETA folks are a bunch of egomaniacs who want to be remembered well by history for supporting the next great civil rights crusade. Well, they picked the wrong crusade to be remembered at all by.

[WTL]

Oh and another thing. Those motherf%&$%* hippies will never keep me from going fishing or hunting. Eventually I'll just give the entire government the finger if they keep up with this ridiculous bulls$^$. Chant with me....STATES RIGHTS!...STATES RIGHTS!.....STATES RIGHTS!........STATES RIGHTS!...STATES RIGHTS!.....STATES RIGHTS!....

Well show those f#*(#$ how to hold a protest.....

[Rebbasser]

Valid points made by all. One good thing is there are a whole lot more of us fishermen and hunters that there are of those peta pukes.

WTL,

"We are a Band of Brothers, Native to the Soil, fighting for our Liberty with Treasure, Blood, and Toil....."

[pig n jig]

Zooker,Whats wrong with being a liberal ? My views are directed towards the liberal party.I hang out with the hippie crowd here, We have a good time, no fights just alot of music,food, wine, friends with no admission fees or worried about much of anything.The problem are the two sides have extremist that are creating the problems, for the most part they are just like you with a different opinion and ideas.P N J

[bassnman30]

With totally different opinions and different ideas.
No, fish don't feel pain !

Bassnman30

[WTL]

The problem PNJ, is that you actually think that 2 different sides are controlling Washington. The GOP has come to stand for big government almost as much as the democrats. Putting power in the hands of a central government leads to an incredible amount of corruption, wasted money, coercion of taxpayers, inefficiency in the economy and scewed finacial incentives for those who look to this governmental apparatus for their dinner. Hippies are fun folks to be around - so go ahead and have fun and chill out with them. But don't be naive, the more power we give to washington the more they take away from us.

[River stumps]

Originally Posted by zooker

get ready cause this aint funny

in my honest opinion peta is nothing more than. uninformed hippi burnouts with nothing better to do that protest against hunters and fisherman.i grew up on my famlies farm we were not rich by any means. their were times if we did not shoot it we did not eat....

the liberal bleeding hearts can protest and whine all they want it is there right by law..
but by that same law i can protest against THEM..I shall protest by taking a kid fishing,teaching a younster to fish that has never done it before. and i shall sit down in the texas steak house and order a 32oz grade A all american made slab of BEEF. rare please why ? because i can, so i will..

teaching today's youth to fish is as important as teaching them to hunt. the young today are bombared by the crap peta is shovlin. which us of an older generation were not. todays youth MUST be taught the correct fundementals of life...


zooker

Can it be said any better as to why it is so important to teach todays youth the art of fishing and hunting? I think not. If peta's ancestors did not hunt and fish in their era, they ( PETA) would not be here today to protest against the rights that were given them by their ancestors. So peta if you are reading this, then you should thank your ancesters for the blood of animals and fish that were shed for YOU.

[pig n jig]

WTL, I am well aware of the privileges that we are losing.I didn't vote for whom I wanted in as president I voted for who most likely could have beaten the opposing force I did not want in there.The best of the 2 evils if you will.Its always a compromise to try to get the best deal, but we have the lie factor which cannot be calculated in the equasion. We always lose something everytime we compromise.Then only a portion of what is supposed to happen really does happen , so we lose even more than we were supposed to.I served 4 years in the Army to protect my country which I love very much, but I sure as heck can do without the way our government is running this country today.You know the saying the republicans are for the rich, the democrats are for the poor, God help the working class.P N J

I am not 20 yet, but dam it I voice my opinion in every way possible. I also stand behind it. Take away hunting and fishing- horsesh!t. I will fight it until my death. Strong words, but dang it, that is my views.

I posted this under another site, which was talking about legal hunting age which antis are tryin to control
-----------------------------------------------------------

Makes me mad as a youth hunter. I mean, I was brought up around guns, hunting, and fishing! When I was 5, my christmas present was a .22, when I was 6, I got a single shot 20 guage. At 8 I got a PSE Nova compound, and at 10, I got my 1100 20 guage slug gun, and my 1100 12 guage for turkey. I was taught to shoot at age 4. Took my hunters saftey test, was high score every time. Look at Texas, people there, can start hunting when the parents feel ready! I may not have been able to hunt until I was 10, due to the dang state laws, but I always tagged along. It is what we are, a hunting family. Now pardon my french, some freaking prick in the HSUS, is trying to ruin it? Bull****! This is where, we hunters need to come together. We cant take this **** laying down.

Second Post---It is just that hunting is such a big part of my life, and I believe, that if us Youth hunters can come together, and try and stop all this, we may have quite a chance. I know these groups are relentless, but If us hunters all got together, we could be just as relentless, if not more.


Same goes to fishing also. I was given my first rod at age 2. They cant take away our heritages! Does anyone else agree???

[pig n jig]

The people who are making millions of dollars off the fishing industry should be hiring Scientist to produce facts that fish do not feel pain.Then they need to publicize & advertise this research material and make it aware to the general public.This would help clear up some of the confrontational debates that are happening.Instead they are taking advantage of us the purchasers of their product and leaving us on our own to take the blame because we are the people fishing & hunting. The Hippies I hang out with know I fish alot and they ask me all sorts of questions about bass fishing, I answer as honestly as I can, but it sure would be nice to have a support from research to back my opinions up.The general population of hippies are not about PETA , or PETA's methods of operation. Most hippies are common people, only a few people that I hang out with are vegetarians,there aren't alot of drug users, we just get together bring a dish to pass,there is a stage where anyone can get up and play music, or just relax and unwind from the everyday stress.Nobody gets too drunk, or starts any fight .Nobody has never been asked to leave for any reason so far.The reason I hang out with them is because I like playing music, eating good food and most of all, being with good people. P N J

[zooker]

pnj
have you failed to remember that I also know, respect,and have at times lived with. those same hippi's you are talking about. i dam well know this as should YOU...
hell one of them even saved my life. by helping me off the road to self distruction..

so no i will not take your naive preachin..

zooker

[WTL]

Ha, and yet Republicans arent for the rich, and Democrats arent for the poor. The truth is they are all out for themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I love the incentive of self-interest. Its the only thing we can calculate and depend on. I just hate giving the government all the power in the land so that to serve your own interests you have to be one with said government. You wanna help end the corruption? You wanna help the working class? Good, then hurt the government. Next time don't play their game, its rigged like any casino is to make sure the government profits off the backs of its clientel - the taxpayers.


My political philosophy is actually very compatible with hippies. Hippies arent bad folk at all, I just think most of them don't understand how the political machine works.

[Marty]

Originally Posted by WTL

No, Marty is right. They arent quite what I would call hippie burnouts, they are more 60s era leftist burnouts. (slight difference, but not much)


What is happening is the lack of an issue for people on the left to rail about is killing them. They used to rail against racism, and that produced the civil rights movement. Truly a great thing. Then they railed against sexism, which produced the womans rights movement. I guess on that they had many a point. After 1975 though, they kinda ran out of minority groups to promote. Some took up the banner of gays, others took up indians, some called to save the whales, and the rest decided they would just create an oppressed group to give them something to do - this was the origins of the animal rights movement. In short, PETA consists of a bunch of whiners who know of no better way to spend their time than to pad their own ego by fighting for human rights for things that arent human. I really think that many of them wish there was more opression in the United States so they could continue to hold sit-ins, cause this is the type of thing these people did for fun back in the days. Some of them are hoping that by some chance, one day they will suceed and all human manipulation of animals will stop - and that they will be able to crow about how they marched and pleaded to protect thse animals - but history will never record the animal rights movement as a civil rights movement, its not. Its a waste of time.


Now if they really wanted to find a movement that will one day be vindicated by history, they should fight for the rights of the unborn. Abortion will not last in this country, especially Roe v Wade, because common sense dicates that it is the killing of human beings. Like racism, the practice of abortion runs expressly counter to our national political foundations. PETA folks are a bunch of egomaniacs who want to be remembered well by history for supporting the next great civil rights crusade. Well, they picked the wrong crusade to be remembered at all by.

WTL, you can use derogatory language about a whole group of people, but that doesn't alter things. Animal abuse is rampant here and abroad and an advocacy organization to get people to treat animals better is perfectly reasonable. You just can't assume that people who differ from you do so because they have nothing better to do with their time.

I don't know why the need to introduce the subject of abortion into a PETA thread. If that is the most important issue to you, you could say that any other advocacy group should turn their attention to the rights of the unborn, not just animal rights people.

You apparently like to paint with a broad brush all those to the left of
yourself ("What is happening is the lack of an issue for people on the left to rail about is killing them."). I'm not sure what qualifies you to generalize about what might be "killing them", but your statement is incorrect. If you'd like to know what people on the left are thinking, you might try asking a few.

Good fishing to you.

[Sluggo Man]

Very good point.

PETA has some very good principles, their problem is that they go way too overboard at times.

I'm all for preventing people from beating up their pets and farm animals...

[WTL]

Marty, do you actually think I havent been exposed to leftist ideology? That I've never met, or spoken to someone with different beliefs than myself? Just who is painting with a broad brush here?
I introduced abortion because it fit into my entire post - an issue over which a political crusade is being fought. Here happens to be two fights, animal rights and abortion - one is a pressing and justified issue based on concrete natural human rights which we all supposedly recognize and the other is a creation based on our own needs to feel better about ourselves. Do you wish to advance a theory giving natural rights to animals? On what would you base this theory? Where do these natural rights come from? Or is it just about "treating them better". I will say again our concern for treating them better is a selfish concern not for their own welfare but for ours.

As always I still respect you and everyone on here, and I refuse to let a political discussion become heated enough to dissolve what friendships I have made here. Good fishing to you, Sir.

[pig n jig]

Zooker, I am not preachin, I just didn't like the way you people were stereotyping hippies as being a majority part of PETA when in fact they are not PETA. I do think PETA has some valid points,they need to reform their group leaders and throw the extremist out just as we should be negative at those who threaten anyone over losing our hunting & fishing privileges.We don't need people that are extremeist fighting for what we believe in either. Thats my .02. P N J

[zooker]

ever see a peta protest pnj? i have.. i called it the way i seen it..

zooker

[pig n jig]

Zooker, No I haven't, and I hope I never do.P N J

[Marty]

Originally Posted by WTL

Marty, do you actually think I havent been exposed to leftist ideology? That I've never met, or spoken to someone with different beliefs than myself? Just who is painting with a broad brush here?
I introduced abortion because it fit into my entire post - an issue over which a political crusade is being fought. Here happens to be two fights, animal rights and abortion - one is a pressing and justified issue based on concrete natural human rights which we all supposedly recognize and the other is a creation based on our own needs to feel better about ourselves. Do you wish to advance a theory giving natural rights to animals? On what would you base this theory? Where do these natural rights come from? Or is it just about "treating them better". I will say again our concern for treating them better is a selfish concern not for their own welfare but for ours.

As always I still respect you and everyone on here, and I refuse to let a political discussion become heated enough to dissolve what friendships I have made here. Good fishing to you, Sir.

I agree, I don't want any political discussions to get in the way of otherwise good relationships.

As I said in my original post, PETA is an extremist organization, but I agree with most of their goals. Their extremist stuff is what makes the news, but there is a lot of good that has been accomplished which isn't as exciting to talk about.

No, I don't want to advance a theory about natural rights to animals (whatever those are). I just view it as semantics, it boils down to campaigning for better treatment of animals, a very legitimate and worthy goal.

As to it being a selfish concern, if you could say that about PETA, you could probably say it about any advocacy organization. For example, it is very common for hunters to justify their activity to anti's by talking about all the deer that would starve or get hit by cars if it wasn't for them. There's not a concern for the welfare of the deer, they're concerned with being able to continue to participate in what they want to do. To me, that's no more or less selfish than PETA and a zillion other groups.

As to abortion being a pressing and justifiable issue, it certainly is to many people. There are others who think people are more important than fetuses and might say why don't the anti-abortion folks show more concern for starving children and young African girls who are being used as sex slaves.

And so it goes. Everyone has their own interests and priorities and, like beauty, it's all in the eye of the beholder.

[Fishie]

Fish like it when I catch them. They smile and do a little shimmey and dance. Doesn't look like the fish care LOL.

[WTL]

When considering the issue of slavery, I think it is obvious that the slaves were deprived of any number of rights ranging from life to freedom of movement, to associate, speech, freedom to pursue their own happiness. We can easily say today that slavery was wrong because these rights were violated.

When considering women, they were denied their right to vote, and many were denied certain legal rights and privilages that were granted to their male counterparts. Their rights were violated....

When considering Jim Crow, yet again Blacks were denied the right to vote and associate, all the while with the local and state governments knowing how they were being treated and allowing or even encouraging it to go on. Their rights were violated....

These 3 issues have been the dominant civil rights issues of our time and the 10 or so generations that have preceded us. They have dogged our insistance on operating a free country which garantees to its citizens life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


Now we come to "animal rights". PETA and her associates have framed the argument very much like the above, as a advocacy group bent on making the public and the government recognize and protect the rights of a certain group. In this case however, the group is not composed of human beings, but rather animals. They err because they attempt to apply human style rights to animals. It is impossible to apply human style rights to a broad group that extends in theory from the 1 celled organism to the horse or whale. In order for rights to exist, I think it nessesary that the recipients of these rights at least have a vague concept of what they are. The PETA extremists are playing a game with us that has no rules whatsoever, and yet they themselves make up the only rules as they go along. We cannot allow them to fool us like this. There is no reason to be concerned about depriving a cow sent to the butcher of its right to live in a field and chew grass. Such a right does not exist.

What does exist are personal preferences. These preferences do not come from the animals, they don't know what is going on - they come from the human beings who are in control of the animals. Every society on earth except for a few views the kicking of a dog with horror, therefor poor treatment of dogs in such a way is against the law in most countries. This does no imply that a dog has this great cosmic natural right not to be kicked or subjected to pain, it just means the people who live around said dog don't wanna see it happen and will punish those who do it. This is a good thing. The problem is there is no limit then to the power granted to the public to oversee the treatment on animals. If society sees fit they can make any law regarding the treatment of animals that they want. This is where we are today conceptually. It is our choice. If we want to argue that hooking a fish in the mouth and pulling it in is cool, then its cool. The fish has no right not to be hooked, never let a PETA person try to convince you otherwise - it is purely a matter that is in the hands of society and what that society is willing to tolerate is what is just. Each time a PETA person insists that a dog has a right to be treated in any matter, or that we should not hunt foxes with dogs, or that burying our dead in airtight coffins deprives the worms of this earth with a meal - tell them that they are wrong, we treat the animals as we wish - it is our decision, our call, as the dominant and only lifeform on the face of the earth that is capable of rational thought.

And on a side note, abortion is a black and white rights issue that centers on whether or not the fetus really is a human. I lose my patience with those who say fetuses do not meet the specifications of a viable human all the time because its obvious that they are close enough not to be burdened with counting as only part a person (in many of the first 3 civil rights cases I mentioned, way back in the beginning of this post, the viability of each class of human being was also questioned just as a fetus is today).

If, for sake of argument the fetus is a human being - then abortion is as morally, ethically and yes, legally wrong as any other murder in this country. So the entire argument comes down to what a fetus is, and I believe most people really know the truth even if they try to convince themselves otherwise.

I hope I havent been too longwinded or conceptual in this thread. What the hell, I know how boring this stuff is to some folks.