OK, I’ll jump in, SARAH PALIN

[WTL]

The abortion pill.

I think if the procedure were made illegal, the blackmarket for it the pill would become very large and knowledge of where to obtain it would be more prevalent than the locations of back alley doctors.

I just told brushog in a PM that basically, I realize and am ok with the fact that abortions will still occur even if its made illegal. We just can't condone them legally. Make them illegal to perform. Fine the people who pass the pills out $20 for show.
--------------------------------------------
We know scientifically when life begins, thats the problem. The answer is not an easy one to take. Its conception. Science is pretty darn clear on that one.

The question is when does humanity begin. Humanity is a logical concept., It cannot be scientifically validated any more than the right to live of an adult can be validated through science. The framework I have proposed says we must accept conception as the beginning of humanity as well. But I think the pill will give early termers and gray area folks a way out.

[1/4 stick]

Originally Posted by WTL

The abortion pill.

I think if the procedure were made illegal, the blackmarket for it the pill would become very large and knowledge of where to obtain it would be more prevalent than the locations of back alley doctors.

I just told brushog in a PM that basically, I realize and am ok with the fact that abortions will still occur even if its made illegal. We just can't condone them legally. Make them illegal to perform. Fine the people who pass the pills out $20 for show.
--------------------------------------------
We know scientifically when life begins, thats the problem. The answer is not an easy one to take. Its conception. Science is pretty darn clear on that one.

The question is when does humanity begin. Humanity is a logical concept., It cannot be scientifically validated any more than the right to live of an adult can be validated through science. The framework I have proposed says we must accept conception as the beginning of humanity as well. But I think the pill will give early termers and gray area folks a way out.

Good points. But I'll guarantee the coat-hanger would still be prevalent.

I still maintain that government as it has become, is biggest scam man has ever devised. And all of them deserve the same fate as Madoff.

Palin has one thing over most others that may run for prez though. If she wanted my vote bad enough, she could earn my vote. joking... really I am.

no, really. I'm joking.

[WTL]

Originally Posted by 1/4 stick

I still maintain that government as it has become, is biggest scam man has ever devised.

You have no idea how much I agree with you. About the only things I want it doing are enforcing law (which this issue would come under) and defense.

Also agree with you on Palin. She could do a few campaign stops and maneuvers if she wants my support. And I think I'd give her some good support.

[1/4 stick]

Originally Posted by WTL

You have no idea how much I agree with you. About the only things I want it doing are enforcing law (which this issue would come under) and defense.

Sadly I don't see it changing much. The people in our country are more caught up in what killed micheal jackson than what's going on that will really affect them, much less having the fortitude to do anything about it.

Originally Posted by WTL

Also agree with you on Palin. She could do a few campaign stops and maneuvers if she wants my support. And I think I'd give her some good support.

If she played her cards right I'd even wear one of her buttons and that stupid styrophoam hat.

[nofearengineer]

She wouldn't have to lower my taxes to get me to help her swell the ranks of the GOP.

[1/4 stick]

[Bassboss]

What ever the case, thank god she did! Good for you Sarah! even if you are half moose!

I'm not saying you're an idiot, just don't tell someone to go read a book when it is blatantly obvious that you are not an avid reader. This is not always true, but typically someone who reads a lot has a much higher proficiency in grammar and spelling.

I'm not bashing anyone there, and don't want to start anything. But I have crappy grammer a spelling, (heck, it it was not for spell check you'd think I was some kinda of alien!) but I love reading and frequently do so... not just posts, but books as well! I personally think it's wrong to judge how well some one reads looking at the there grammer, and spelling! Not a big deal, though!

[bassFishingWNY]

I didn't think this would bring this big of a response.
Call me dumb, retarded, uneducated, what ever, I have my beliefs , and that's what maters to me.
I think man, and man-woman, and woman are personal, and the government should stay out of it!
Abstinence? Come on, this is sex, when the hormones get flowing, not many say no! Teen pregnancy is going on all over the world.
What about the woman from Calf. who had 8? kids from a sperm Donner, is that right?
The egg, women pass one every month, so is that aborning if not fertilized? It's the woman's body, and her life. You say the baby has no say, is it a baby, when is it a baby? Who can say when life begins, they are stilling tring to find HOW life began!
The conservatives yell less government, but want to tell the people how to live their lives! And it cost money to tell them how to live their lives!

Off topic, but the seat belt law, that is crazy. If you don't ware it, you are not hurting anyone but yourself, but big fine if you don't have it on. The government telling you what you have to do!

To the few that blocked me, you can't read this. But they think one way, and don't like others views. It's their way, they are always right!

Skip!

[BigBassin144]

You may get more people to listen if we could actually understand what you're trying to say...

BB

[WTL]

An unfertilized egg passing isn't abortion. Without a sperm its nothing.

I wouldn't want the government involved if it werent this issue of life and death. Its the one area where Government was created to deal with.

I agree about set belt laws.

You really have more problems with just writing than anything else. I don't have a problem with liberal views, I see them a quaint and thats about it. Bring it on.

[carolina-rig-01]

Originally Posted by bassFishingWNY

stilling tring to find HOW life began!

if you like reading so much maybe you should open up a bible. and i didn't add you to my ignore list so i can still read your ignorant post, i am just ignoring you on my own.

[1/4 stick]

Hey WTL maybe you can help me with this. What defines a liberal and/or conservative? Reason I ask is that I usually find myself somewhere in the middle on most issues so it's kind of hard to define which I am.

[WTL]

Originally Posted by 1/4 stick

Hey WTL maybe you can help me with this. What defines a liberal and/or conservative? Reason I ask is that I usually find myself somewhere in the middle on most issues so it's kind of hard to define which I am.

Several answers.

The most correct first;
Absolutely nothing. They are made up words with no real standards of definition. The understood meanings by people are often totally conflicting., Political vocabulary is a huge pet peeve of mine. Liberal can mean generous when used in regular language (IE pour the sauce on the steak liberally) it can mean promoting social freedom (my teacher says liberals pushed through the 64 voting rights act) or it can mean restricting social freedom (my buddy jim bob cooter said dem dam liberals gonna take our guns away). It normally means "a lot of" something, but the what is never defined.

Conservative in contrast normally means "comparatively smaller amounts of that something" but again, that something is never defined and their are exceptions to this.

It is also worth noting the words left and right mean next to nothing. They were originally coined during the French Revolution as the "conservative" side of the assembly was sitting on the right side of the room and the "liberals" on the left.

Also, not that on the extremes, it is said communists are liberal or leftist and facists are conservative or rightist. But this is very confusing as both facists and commies push a huge centralized government, which is often understood to be antithetical to conservativism. From my point of view, commies and socialists are both statists seperated by mere technicalities and are peas in the same pod.

The language we use matters most in terms of perception. Over the years, highly charged political words change in meaning, and gain negative association. The word liberal is now being dropped by many democratic consultants in favor of the word "progressive". They found that liberal, which originally had been a positive word when they co-opted it, became a liability.

Libertarians too, are under a new banner. The word "libertarian" is a recent phenomena. Historically, we were called "classical liberals". We also have been identified with the "old right". Confused yet?

The second answer is simple. A liberal or conservative is the other guy that you are trying to demean and box in.

One last thing to confuse you. This illustration is often promoted by libertarians as trying to make a little more sense out of the right-left statist -libertarian terminology.



You can also take the worlds smallest political quiz to place yourself on that diamond, although I'm not sure how accurate such a little quiz could be. (BTW, I'm right next to Bob Barr)

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

[cassidyta]

While I too hate the assigned names, the quiz was rather interesting.
Per the quiz, I am pretty much exactly where I suspected to be. Of course, retaking and making a firm stand on my two maybes changed the label.
I would say that few people fall into any one category. The assignment of these labels are more often given by others rather than themselves.

[1/4 stick]

Yep, I'm right on the line of liberal and libertarian.

[nofearengineer]

I'm an 80/80 WTL. Just where I knew I would be. I pretty much only disagree with Libertarians on a few points where their stance would cause anarchy, in my opinion.

[Jim80]

I ended up 80/60 which made me a libertarian i guess .


Jim

[nofearengineer]

I think many of us who are self-proclaimed "conservatives" are going to find that by modern standards, we are Libertarians. That has a lot to do with what WTL was saying about Libertarians being known as the "Old Right". I think when the 20th century liberals went so anti-God, it caused a sort of "equal and opposite reaction" in the conservative movement, who some would say felt they had to respond in kind. Those of us who just want to mind our own business, raise our children as we see fit, and go to church quietly got left in the lurch.

[bassFishingWNY]

I’m not the smartest, or a great speller, or a history expert, but I do know what I see!
I Atheist to start. It was a story made up, that took hold. The same as Moslems think of their god, and when you die, you will have 80? Virgins, that why the do the suicide thing. In older times it was the Sun that was GOD, the stars. There is no proof that there was ever a god, it’s only what you want to believe. I did read the bible by the way, the “old testament, and new” . If you think that god will give you a place to live after you die, that’s great,. That helps a lot of older people cope with death.
On being liberal, or conservative. If you give to charity, help anyone, you are liberal. The Armed forces are liberal. Bush was liberal for the Medicare drug act that made the drug corporations richer, and saying he wanted to help the poor! Twisted words!
I worked hard all my life, and saved. With my pension, and Social Security, I retired at 62! Now it’s my time to enjoy life, and fish! I may not be around for the 2012 election, but if I am, I’ll vote Democrat! History has shone that the Democrat helped all of Americans, the conservative republican’s have helped only the super rich!
By the way, the south was once Democrat, the republican bible thumping turned it to the right!

Skip!

[MississippiBoy]

Originally Posted by bassFishingWNY

I’m not the smartest, or a great speller, or a history expert, but I do know what I see!
I Atheist to start. It was a story made up, that took hold. The same as Moslems think of their god, and when you die, you will have 80? Virgins, that why the do the suicide thing. In older times it was the Sun that was GOD, the stars. There is no proof that there was ever a god, it’s only what you want to believe. I did read the bible by the way, the “old testament, and new” . If you think that god will give you a place to live after you die, that’s great,. That helps a lot of older people cope with death.
On being liberal, or conservative. If you give to charity, help anyone, you are liberal. The Armed forces are liberal. Bush was liberal for the Medicare drug act that made the drug corporations richer, and saying he wanted to help the poor! Twisted words!
I worked hard all my life, and saved. With my pension, and Social Security, I retired at 62! Now it’s my time to enjoy life, and fish! I may not be around for the 2012 election, but if I am, I’ll vote Democrat! History has shone that the Democrat helped all of Americans, the conservative republican’s have helped only the super rich!
By the way, the south was once Democrat, the republican bible thumping turned it to the right!

Skip!

So, I disagree with the liberals (or left wing, or progressives, or whatever you want to call them) on many things, from abortion, to Social Security, gun control, taxation, etc, etc, etc., but because I donate money to my church to help run a soup kitchen, and World Vision to help one child in Venezuela and another in India go to school and have food to eat, I'm a liberal? That's a very big leap, to define a person by one small aspect of their life.

You bass fish, so you must be a redneck. I own a gun, so I must be an anarchist (sp?) survivalist extremist camped in the mountains of West Virginia with tons of MRE's, preparing for the destruction of society.

You really ought to be careful about the way you try group people into a small box of your own making. I don't like being boxed in.

[bassFishingWNY]

I’m democrat, and liberal. I own guns, a lot of them! I hunt, kill game, like the sport!
That was a story made up by Hesston, to turn the people right!
I don’t have them because the right is saying, we need them to stop the “left Hitler’s from taking over , and stopping our freedom, the guns you have will be nothing compared to what the government has!
The far right (neoconservative) has put false info into too many brains!
We (liberals) OWN guns, hunt, fish. It’s the far right that is saying, the left will take away your guns!

[MississippiBoy]

I don't know if you're ignoring my point, or if you just missed it. Read my last post again and see if you can come up with the purpose of what I said.

[bassFishingWNY]

None at all! What are you saying?

[1/4 stick]

Originally Posted by bassFishingWNY

I’m democrat, and liberal. I own guns, a lot of them! I hunt, kill game, like the sport!
That was a story made up by Hesston, to turn the people right!
I don’t have them because the right is saying, we need them to stop the “left Hitler’s from taking over , and stopping our freedom, the guns you have will be nothing compared to what the government has!
The far right (neoconservative) has put false info into too many brains!
We (liberals) OWN guns, hunt, fish. It’s the far right that is saying, the left will take away your guns!

You're funny.

[bassFishingWNY]

Best you can do?