Been hearing a lot of bashing - Page 2

WTL · 01-26-12, 03:21 PM

Bryce,
I watched CrossFire when I was in elementary school. I was at minimum a very unusual, perhaps you would even call a sick, child.

But even notwithstanding that, how can you possibly think that I am not familiar with the argument that there is a left leaning bias in the major media? Of course I am aware of this, from yellow journalism, through Cronkite, to Rather, to CNN.

But you either seem to discount my point, or just miss it completely. I do not deny a left bias in many outlets. I am still amazed by the type of blogs that Yahoo News selects for their front page. I am sure it is intentional.

That is besides the point. Yeah, the left wing media hurts a little. But I am saying that makes the trust put on what was originally supposed to be a fair and balanced, and later admitted to cater to conservative interests, media outlet – that is much more critical.

CNN can’t control the conservative movement. Conservatives stopped watching. They first adapted by going to talk radio. Then came Fox News.

The problem comes when Fox News fails in its obligations to the entire conservative movement. Fox plays a kingmaker role. They can anoint the power players now in the movement like no other organization. And they wield that power, at best, negligently-and at worst, and more likely, maliciously.

Lets end a myth right here. There is not just one conservative movement. Dogmatic just mentioned George Will and William F. Buckley. I like both those guys. Actually, I think they are perhaps 2 of the best models I can think of for what a conservative op-journalist should be. Buckely of course, is dead. But when was the last time you saw Will touch Fox News?

What about Pat Buchannon? He has a different take on conservatism that has at least a large number of adherents. I have never cared too much about NAFTA or immigration, but we don’t even have that debate in the party. We used to, in the 90s, when Buchannan was on CNN. But he got closed out.

The other day you and me debated national security policy. How often do you see that debate, between conservatives, on Fox News? And yet my position is a very old, respectable, intellectually honest position. So is yours. But we foreclose the debate before it starts. THAT is way more harmful than anything Soros does. A good bit of that comes down to fox news. They try to make less belligerent conservatives feel as if they should switch parties. They are the reason old women in south Carolina boo the golden rule. Its dumb. We are creating an inbred system of political thought, insulated from challenges just as if we were in the kremlin, and it makes us weak. The nominee just might end up being Newt Gingrich. We are doing this to ourselves. Some time, you have to say a suicide is a suicide.

A country cannot be destroyed so easily as it can destroy itself. The same is true for the Conservative movement. People are born and raised conservative. It is a deeply held, foundational idea that is unique to America. Outside sources cannot destroy it. CNN can piss people off, but it takes a friend with open arms to really ruin the movement by deflecting the impulses of a conservative in the directions the elite prefer.

What happened to William F. Buckely? Where are our real intellectuals? We throw them off TV, and replace them with demogagues such as Sean Hannity and Bill O’reilly.

Dogmatic · 01-26-12, 04:00 PM

Hmmm...who does Pat Buchanan work for as an analyst?

WTL · 01-26-12, 04:05 PM

I thought he was recently let go by MSNBC because of an orchestrated boycott regarding his recent book.

the pyromaniac · 01-26-12, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

There, I fixed that typo you made.

I meant it exactly as I typed it. There was no typo until you quoted me.

Dogmatic · 01-26-12, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTL

I thought he was recently let go by MSNBC because of an orchestrated boycott regarding his recent book.

You know I haven't seen him lately on MSNBC, he was on The Chris Matthew's show(NBC) relatively recently, but was wondering...he hasn't changed his Bio. I thought he might be ill...But having looked it up, he has just been suspended, despite a strong push to have him fired, for the period of time that is required to push his new book on how brown skinned people are destroying democracy, and this country.

nofearengineer · 01-26-12, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTL

But even notwithstanding that, how can you possibly think that I am not familiar with the argument that there is a left leaning bias in the major media?

Billy, I didn't say that at all. I simply said you didn't experience the liberal domination of the media the same way someone older did. You say you were politically aware at a younger age than most, so I'll take your word for it. However, if that's true, I simply can't believe that you would think we were better off before Fox News came along. I sure don't feel that way. Even for rogue maniacs like me, it's nice once in a while to experience some Conservative sympatico.

Quote:

But you either seem to discount my point, or just miss it completely.

I think you're discounting your own point. As i said above, all I referred to was the effect on Conservatism you mentioned.

Quote:

The nominee just might end up being Newt Gingrich.

Well, your man Paul is not going to be the nominee. Regardless of whether I like him or not, that is an asbolute death and taxes certainty. We have hashed it out over and over about why that is...I'd rather not revisit it.

My point is that, if Paul isn't the nominee, you had better hope it is Gingrich, or at the very least Santorum. A Romney Presidency will be Obama v2.0 Romney may be a leader in commerce, but he is a lightweight in the arena of governance. He will never push back the barbarian hordes (that's the Democrats to you, dogmatic). As soon as the media protests, he will toe the line like so many RINO's before him.

Oh, and by the way...I love Pat Buchanan. I voted for him when he ran for President, and would gladly do it again, though that will never happen.

Dogmatic · 01-26-12, 08:00 PM

Love it...Golf clubs vs. Bass boats when it comes to the GOP, I watch Faux News every night it's so exciting! The Angry White Man Will Rise Again! Buchanan 2012!!!

WTL · 01-26-12, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Billy, I didn't say that at all. I simply said you didn't experience the liberal domination of the media the same way someone older did. You say you were politically aware at a younger age than most, so I'll take your word for it. However, if that's true, I simply can't believe that you would think we were better off before Fox News came along. I sure don't feel that way. Even for rogue maniacs like me, it's nice once in a while to experience some Conservative sympatico.

I think you're discounting your own point. As i said above, all I referred to was the effect on Conservatism you mentioned.

Well, your man Paul is not going to be the nominee. Regardless of whether I like him or not, that is an asbolute death and taxes certainty. We have hashed it out over and over about why that is...I'd rather not revisit it.

My point is that, if Paul isn't the nominee, you had better hope it is Gingrich, or at the very least Santorum. A Romney Presidency will be Obama v2.0 Romney may be a leader in commerce, but he is a lightweight in the arena of governance. He will never push back the barbarian hordes (that's the Democrats to you, dogmatic). As soon as the media protests, he will toe the line like so many RINO's before him.

Oh, and by the way...I love Pat Buchanan. I voted for him when he ran for President, and would gladly do it again, though that will never happen.

There have always been some outlets. You can find old youtube clips online of Mr. Buckely from the 1980s. I can't exactly predate that, but you start to predate cable news going back farther.

Anyways, I don't cut across my point. Fox has a duty and they have shirked it, time and again. That others also screw up doesn't change things.

Its like if you have a political campaign, and the democrat is a lying, mudslinging ***.

And then the republicans nominate a lying, mudslinging *** cause he is the only one who can beat the dem.

You still end up with a mudslinging ***, only this guy has your party and supposedly your philosphy to drag through the mud with him. And you think that makes us better off? Hmmph.

As ghandi said, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

--------------

No doubt Paul will not be the nominee. But even Paul illustrates what I am talking about, as he apparently had a much higher ceiling than anyone ever knew. About %25percent of the party are just libertarians, and yet in 08 Paul wasn't even invited to some of the debates, was blacked out by Fox.

Now, to the last point - you said hope its Gingrich.

Let me say this very clear, cause I think you havent been paying ample attention if you think Gingrich has a shot in hell of doing anything in the general election. He is the most unpopular man in washington. He is a lying, dirty, scumbag, with no ideological base, he supported the mandate, he supported fanny and freddie, he is a philanderer, a moral hypocrite, his national unpopularity is probably higher than any other mainstream candidate since Eugene Debbs, and his mission is decidedly progressive. You must have missed all of that. I dont know how. You are a smart guy, but maybe you need to open up the outlets you get your info from. Congressional candidates running in 12 are already freaking that Gingrich runs because he will doom them. Bob Dole just came out of a assisted living facility to tear him down.

We cannot allow him to be the face of conservative thought. If we do, we are destroyed, point blank. There is some solace for me in the destruction of the old GOP big tent, as I think it might be a prerequisite to build it up again on stronger lines, but that is for another election.

In the meantime, yea, Romney sucks. He is the only guy who can beat Obama, but he wont either. So what we are stuck with is no winning candidate in 12, the election is over, and I have given up on it. But at the very least, Romney will bring in enough of a wave that it doesnt doom the congressional races, and Romney wont totally stick his *** in the air and say something stupid like lets get rid of the 9th circuit (and replace it with what?!)...

Newt Gingrich is one of the best public speakers I have ever seen. Especially when you account for the stuff he says, and wonder, how the **** does anybody give this guy a second of their time? The amount of stupid stuff he has said in the past 8 months alone is enough for 5 lifetimes.

WTL · 01-26-12, 09:07 PM

Ron Paul v. William F. Buckely (1988), Firing Line

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VIvqyrxbL8

If fox were a good station, they would have at least an hour of in depth discussion like this each weekday. Instead, on the tough issues they often have Shep Smith interview two big busty blondes who agree with each other on the GOP talking points, and that serves as our debate.

Is it any wonder then that our primaries turn on which candidate can show the most convincing mock-indignation towards the press? We don't even know how to have a debate anymore. We have even forgotten that there are several different political camps in the GOP tent, each moving fluidly, that have to be brought together by a cohesive candidate to win. Instead, we talk the talk, say the same things we have said for 15 years, and act like that is what a political campaign is.

Dogmatic · 01-26-12, 09:54 PM

WOW! You forget how brilliant Buckley was...where are the "Buckleys" of the Right today?

nofearengineer · 01-26-12, 10:23 PM

I guess we will just have to wait until November, and then we will all see.

Dogmatic · 01-26-12, 10:54 PM

After that debate...It's not too late! Buchanan 2012!!!!

01-26-12, 03:21 PM	#26
WTL BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntsville, Al Posts: 7,466	Bryce, I watched CrossFire when I was in elementary school. I was at minimum a very unusual, perhaps you would even call a sick, child. But even notwithstanding that, how can you possibly think that I am not familiar with the argument that there is a left leaning bias in the major media? Of course I am aware of this, from yellow journalism, through Cronkite, to Rather, to CNN. But you either seem to discount my point, or just miss it completely. I do not deny a left bias in many outlets. I am still amazed by the type of blogs that Yahoo News selects for their front page. I am sure it is intentional. That is besides the point. Yeah, the left wing media hurts a little. But I am saying that makes the trust put on what was originally supposed to be a fair and balanced, and later admitted to cater to conservative interests, media outlet – that is much more critical. CNN can’t control the conservative movement. Conservatives stopped watching. They first adapted by going to talk radio. Then came Fox News. The problem comes when Fox News fails in its obligations to the entire conservative movement. Fox plays a kingmaker role. They can anoint the power players now in the movement like no other organization. And they wield that power, at best, negligently-and at worst, and more likely, maliciously. Lets end a myth right here. There is not just one conservative movement. Dogmatic just mentioned George Will and William F. Buckley. I like both those guys. Actually, I think they are perhaps 2 of the best models I can think of for what a conservative op-journalist should be. Buckely of course, is dead. But when was the last time you saw Will touch Fox News? What about Pat Buchannon? He has a different take on conservatism that has at least a large number of adherents. I have never cared too much about NAFTA or immigration, but we don’t even have that debate in the party. We used to, in the 90s, when Buchannan was on CNN. But he got closed out. The other day you and me debated national security policy. How often do you see that debate, between conservatives, on Fox News? And yet my position is a very old, respectable, intellectually honest position. So is yours. But we foreclose the debate before it starts. THAT is way more harmful than anything Soros does. A good bit of that comes down to fox news. They try to make less belligerent conservatives feel as if they should switch parties. They are the reason old women in south Carolina boo the golden rule. Its dumb. We are creating an inbred system of political thought, insulated from challenges just as if we were in the kremlin, and it makes us weak. The nominee just might end up being Newt Gingrich. We are doing this to ourselves. Some time, you have to say a suicide is a suicide. A country cannot be destroyed so easily as it can destroy itself. The same is true for the Conservative movement. People are born and raised conservative. It is a deeply held, foundational idea that is unique to America. Outside sources cannot destroy it. CNN can piss people off, but it takes a friend with open arms to really ruin the movement by deflecting the impulses of a conservative in the directions the elite prefer. What happened to William F. Buckely? Where are our real intellectuals? We throw them off TV, and replace them with demogagues such as Sean Hannity and Bill O’reilly. __________________ Selling live waterdogs for less since 2005.

01-26-12, 04:05 PM	#28
WTL BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntsville, Al Posts: 7,466	I thought he was recently let go by MSNBC because of an orchestrated boycott regarding his recent book. __________________ Selling live waterdogs for less since 2005.

01-26-12, 09:07 PM	#34
WTL BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntsville, Al Posts: 7,466	Ron Paul v. William F. Buckely (1988), Firing Line http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VIvqyrxbL8 If fox were a good station, they would have at least an hour of in depth discussion like this each weekday. Instead, on the tough issues they often have Shep Smith interview two big busty blondes who agree with each other on the GOP talking points, and that serves as our debate. Is it any wonder then that our primaries turn on which candidate can show the most convincing mock-indignation towards the press? We don't even know how to have a debate anymore. We have even forgotten that there are several different political camps in the GOP tent, each moving fluidly, that have to be brought together by a cohesive candidate to win. Instead, we talk the talk, say the same things we have said for 15 years, and act like that is what a political campaign is. __________________ Selling live waterdogs for less since 2005. Last edited by WTL; 01-26-12 at 09:30 PM.

01-26-12, 10:23 PM	#36
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	I guess we will just have to wait until November, and then we will all see. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

01-26-12, 10:54 PM	#37
Dogmatic BassFishin.Com Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 714	After that debate...It's not too late! Buchanan 2012!!!! Last edited by Dogmatic; 01-26-12 at 11:12 PM.

01-26-12, 04:00 PM	#27
Dogmatic BassFishin.Com Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 714	Hmmm...who does Pat Buchanan work for as an analyst?

01-26-12, 08:00 PM	#32
Dogmatic BassFishin.Com Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 714	Love it...Golf clubs vs. Bass boats when it comes to the GOP, I watch Faux News every night it's so exciting! The Angry White Man Will Rise Again! Buchanan 2012!!!

01-26-12, 09:54 PM	#35
Dogmatic BassFishin.Com Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 714	WOW! You forget how brilliant Buckley was...where are the "Buckleys" of the Right today?

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