OMG Bryce, no more Twinkies....

[kennethdaysale]

Joe Like you I don't have all the answers, but I do have some observations. Disclaimer: I have lived my entire adult life in the deep south and have never to my knowledge even met a union worker.

It would seem that we have more than a little in common, we're roughly the same age, have a college degree and have worked most if not all our lives on commission. Reading your post, it seems to me you're flipping between
someones "worth" as a person versus their worth in the market. Certainly you'll meet some very poor people with a heart of gold and some extremely wealthy people who are scalawags, that has always been and always will be true. If being "good" was somehow a measure of someones monetary worth then Mother Teresa would have of course been a billionaire. Don't get sentimental about it, it's business, nothing else. Colleges don't offer degrees in goodness.

People have different goals and ambitions and abilities. During my career I hired hundreds of employees, everything from janitorial and clerical people to high profile sales reps and branch managers. I found that the best hires had one thing in common, whether they were labourers or highly skilled "degreed" people. They had a drive and a hunger to succeed that went far deeper than just their typing speed or the initials after their name. Sometimes it seemed to come from their upbringing, sometime it was just a competitive spirit, sometimes it was hard to tell where it came from, but you could just tell that they had "it".

The current unemployment thing is a cycle just like any other cycle. Cycles come and go. In the end we do live in a class society and rightfully so. There will always be people needed to wait tables and pick up the trash and stuff creme filling in twinkies. There will always be people whose goal is to be the best waiter, trashman and line worker they can be and nothing more. There will also always be that particular waitress(the one thats got "it") that wants the hostess job, then shift manager, then restuarant manager, then buy her first Applebees franchise, then another ..... .

Generally speaking of course, it seems to me that the people that hate capitalism and free markets just don't get "it".

[bcklash]

No Matter what ya'll think of unions, Twinkies maybe alive and well


http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-twinkies?lite

[nofearengineer]

Originally Posted by bcklash

No Matter what ya'll think of unions, Twinkies maybe alive and well


http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-twinkies?lite

Hmmmm....I seem to recall someone here hinting at Twinkies coming out of Mexico.

Now the same unions who killed the American Twinkie can fight to have it banned altogether. LOL, this is too good...who knew I would find a way to enjoy Twinkies?

[pro reel]

Joe, what someone is worth and what there earning potential are is totally different. You referenced several trades. Trades are just as valuable as a college degree and many times more so. There are many tradesman making a lot more money than a lot of office workers. I'm one of them. I make more in my trade field than the entry level engineers do. I have worked in several other trades where you can also make a nice living. My point was, get an education in something. Can't afford college or just not interested in those areas. as was I, then go to a trade school or get a low paying job as an aprentice in your trade of choice. Learn the trade and work your way up. Hopefully, if you are a good worker and learn the trade, you will be making a living wage by the time you are ready for a familly.
As for some of the things that were mentioned, we have to keep in mind that everything is tied together. Can the trash company pay there workers 50K or more a year, sure they can, but they will have to double or triple your colection rates. Could a fast food place or all the myriad of small business shops pay 15 to 20 bucks an hour, sure, as long as everyone kept shopping there when the cost of the products tripled. I can't pay $15 for a happy meal so that the employee can get paid higher wages. As wages go up, the cost of everything the workers produce or sell goes up, thats just the way it works. It's a cycle that makes you continually need more money to live the way you want. 30 years ago, the current minimum wage would have been a great starting wage for many industries. But as wages went up, so did everything else, so now that isn;t enough to live on.

[Dogmatic]

Hmmmm...the union killed Hostess, not the six CEO's in nearly as many years, all drawing golden parachutes, with the last one giving himself a 300% raise just three months after making workers take major concessions...yeah, it was the unions.

[WTL]

I wont make this story conform to my political beliefs. It wasn't just the unions. It wasnt the vulture capitalists. It was a whole host of factors.

One of them being this; Twinkies arent that good. And the junk food market is overloaded. You want to make a profit selling sugar and bread? OK, but you are gonna have to sell a ton. And you better not make it in America, cause production of stuff that doesn't require skilled workers is too expensive. Unions are one of the reasons for that.

I think some liberals want things both ways without realizing it. On the one hand, they want strong unions which provide a living wage and comfortable middle class existence for unskilled workers. On the other hand, they want jobs to stay in the US. They can't really have both is the problem. That is why the Right to Work states continually eat the yankee union states lunch.

Now, as a consequence of the hostile nature of America to industrial production, what we perhaps could do is request that our citizens cultivate modern skill sets - and not just lever pulling ability. But unions dont want that either. They continue to insist that Americans should be able to go to work, loaf around doing something any idiot can do, and draw a better paycheck than the market can bear. And it just...wont...work.

And there you have...the American economy.

[pro reel]

Originally Posted by Dogmatic

Hmmmm...the union killed Hostess, not the six CEO's in nearly as many years, all drawing golden parachutes, with the last one giving himself a 300% raise just three months after making workers take major concessions...yeah, it was the unions.

No dog, the union wasn't alone in killing hostess, but they did give it the final blow. No one here is saying that the upper managment wasn't raping the company to pad thier own paycheck. Most of us would probably agree that something needs to be done about the rampant corporate greed that allows them to pay themselves millions while the company strugles to make a profit. There was a time in America where most people that ran companies actually cared about the company and did what was in the best interest of the company. The current state of greed is just another sympton of all the greed in America. If you can throw a ball through a hoop or hit a ball over a fence, you can earn millions without even a high school diploma. If you can make it in showbiz you can be paid millions to make one movie. Everyone wants a piece of the pie and they want it bigger and bigger. When they don;t have any morals telling them to do the right thing, then i guess they need some regualtions.
But, until the world is a perfect place, anyone that has a decent job should be smart enough to do anything needed to keep it, especially if you don't have a skill set that will let you walk into another high paying job. Most non union workers across the country have been hit hard with the economy turn down, They have seen pay freezes, insurance rate hikes, and even pay cuts. No one likes that but it's better to have a job that pays less than to have no job at all.

[bcklash]

Originally Posted by WTL

I wont make this story conform to my political beliefs. It wasn't just the unions. It wasnt the vulture capitalists. It was a whole host of factors.

One of them being this; Twinkies arent that good. And the junk food market is overloaded. You want to make a profit selling sugar and bread? OK, but you are gonna have to sell a ton. And you better not make it in America, cause production of stuff that doesn't require skilled workers is too expensive. Unions are one of the reasons for that.

I think some liberals want things both ways without realizing it. On the one hand, they want strong unions which provide a living wage and comfortable middle class existence for unskilled workers. On the other hand, they want jobs to stay in the US. They can't really have both is the problem. That is why the Right to Work states continually eat the yankee union states lunch.

Now, as a consequence of the hostile nature of America to industrial production, what we perhaps could do is request that our citizens cultivate modern skill sets - and not just lever pulling ability. But unions dont want that either. They continue to insist that Americans should be able to go to work, loaf around doing something any idiot can do, and draw a better paycheck than the market can bear. And it just...wont...work.

And there you have...the American economy.

I just found out that I'm an idiot and have loafed on my job for the last 21 years.

[kennethdaysale]

Originally Posted by bcklash

I just found out that I'm an idiot and have loafed on my job for the last 21 years.

Dang lash you think that's bad, I've just been told on another thread that I've been hypnotized and brain washed by the corporate goons over at Sufix into buying clear and low-vis green line.
Seriously I'm sure WTL was speaking in generalities/painting with a wide brush so to speak, certainly nothing to take personally.

[bcklash]

Originally Posted by kennethdaysale

Dang lash you think that's bad, I've just been told on another thread that I've been hypnotized and brain washed by the corporate goons over at Sufix into buying clear and low-vis green line.
Seriously I'm sure WTL was speaking in generalities/painting with a wide brush so to speak, certainly nothing to take personally.

Yea KD I know, and I usally I consider the source when he spewing his worthless crap everywhere and just just ignore him. I should have this time. I work in a UAW plant and 99% of us are not loafers or idiots.

[bassboogieman]

Well the Mexicans have the supply lines already established. Those border guards are going to be busy, but at least they can eat the Twinkies, while burning the grass & coke.

[lilmule]

This is a deep subject to say the least,one all things change and the change that occurs is not always welcome.
I was a mere high school grad worked plants one after another shut down,sending me in search of work had decent jobs and found myself scrounging for min wage jobs against many others in same boat.Did take unemployment checks,yet wasnt married as yet we held off due to loss of income dated her 8 years finally we said ok lets do it(both working again).Both lost jobs again and again,retrained myself to electrical and then got a good job again as maintenance worker at a university,thus on call 24/7 and 7 more years of night school,then 5 years as only one on 3-11 shift,only had lil over 2000 dorm students.Saw both sides many wanted to start at the top soon as they graduated,only the top ones in class do,and then not always at the top.
Finally though was with feet firmly planted or so I thought,owned my own home was making mid forties sal with overtime,sold my home due to early retirement ,now paying for a lesser home as money was spent for medical bills.
My take is we make it all so can slowly send it all back later,that nest egg is just for that,hopefully it lasts long enough.
Can a family make do on 24 k a year sure,thats all were getting now more or less on ss,just dont eat lots of steak,or high on the hog.
Also had an ira so dipped into that to pay again medical bills,that is what the nest egg is for,would it be any good to have not touched it,yet there are times wish it spread more.
That is the american way of life,at least here we do have the chance to get a nest egg,some through no fault of their own fail,others dont even try yet still get one.
In that respect life is just not fair
Their is at times a fine line between a plant shutting down to reduce costs and workers who are asking to much.
But at no time is it normally advantageous to not have skills or an education,often requiring a switch in skills or education even mid life.
As for hostess I love the chocolate with creme center guess ill have to apply for a border job part time,and move again.

[WTL]

Originally Posted by bcklash

Yea KD I know, and I usally I consider the source when he spewing his worthless crap everywhere and just just ignore him. I should have this time. I work in a UAW plant and 99% of us are not loafers or idiots.

Lash, I'm not talking about you and I shouldn't have used the word idiot or loafers because I was lazy myself with the language I chose, but you shouldn't go the extra step and feel compelled to think I was talking about you. There is no need to take what I said personally, unless you just want to be mad.