Alabama Fishing

[Kevin]

First, many thanks to WTL (Billy Love).

WTL's concerns align with my philosophy and with what I am trying to accomplish. Over the past 12 years I have kept other's self-promotions to a minimum for the benefit of our members.

WTL is right, it is my site.

Originally Posted by TGRrod

Here what you need to do take a poll from people here and if they think this is promoting like you think then I will never get on here again but if not drop it and leave it alone let other people have a say other than you.

There will be no poll. I make the decisions on BassFishin.Com.

Tim, I consider your post as promotion. This is a news release, of which the aim is to gain favorable attention and publicity for your company.

I routinely moderate these forums to deliberately expunge these marketing plugs so that our visitors aren't bogged down with unsolicited advertising.

I've had several conversations with Tim regarding this matter, and I thought it was behind us. He's testing my goodwill, of which I had shared a lot.

The forums, for the past day, have resulted in a lot of contention. It is for this very reason, that I monitor and prohibit self-promotion from NON-ADVERTISERS, especially considering the fact that we have a strict policy for paying advertisers to get our approval first before posting anything of the promotional nature.

Our advertisers are clearly informed of the policies regarding forum promotions for their products or services. They are clearly told, at the start of their advertising, the following:

"As an advertiser of BassFishin.Com, you have the privilege to occasionally post on the forums a promotional post about things like new products, specials sales, and so on. But, before you do so, you MUST call or email BassFishin.Com and request approval."

This policy is our way of controlling the promotional posts and making sure our members are not overwhelmed with routine promotions.

This has nothing to do with whether Tim is or was an advertiser on this site. And by the way, he is not and hasn't been since the end of last July.

Originally Posted by carolina-rig-01

...and that proves that it is a personal thing against Tim because he pulled his ad, which was just a business decision that he had to make because the ad didnt' sell him a single rod.

Kory, I'm shocked and very dissapointed. This has nothing to do with personal feelings and everything to do with our website.

Originally Posted by DonaldBreland

Kevin has already sent me a p.m a couple of weeks ago and apparently he doesn't see me as promoting products on here.

Just to get the facts straight for everyone Donald, here is a copy for all to see of the private message/email sent to you on 9/01/09:

Hi Donald,

First off, let me welcome you to the BassFishin.Com forums!

I wanted to ask if you could refrain from promoting your sponsors, namely TigeRodz, within the forums. While we certainly wish to promote and encourage conversation about brands and products within relevant topics, it should only come across as organic within the thread, and not as a purpose-driven plug.

We appreciate your participation and contribution and look forward to your fellowship.

Thanks and take care,

Kevin Scarselli
BassFishin.Com


In the future, I will be deleting any unsolicited plugs. I feel I have more than justified the reasoning behind our policy.

Again, thank you WTL for looking out for the best interest of the website, forums and our visitors.

Best Regards,

Kevin Scarselli
BassFishin.Com

Like I said. That was two weeks ago. I haven't received another pm from you in the last two weeks so I must have respected your decision. If you would have had a problem with me then I would have received another email from you. So anyways. I don't see how you can come on here and take one guys side when 10 other guys see it our way. This will be the last post I put up on this forum. I was here to help you guys out. Kevin please call me tomorrow. 843-635-4393

[nofearengineer]

Donald and anyone else...

I don't think Kevin "took WTL's side."

On the contrary, I think WTL took Kevin's side from the start. Kevin just hadn't said anything publicly yet.

Just my take on the whole thing. I'm just a mushroom, sittin here in the dark, eating the fertilizer they heap on me. Man...a guy goes fishing on Sunday, everything goes to heck in a handbasket.

[BigBassin144]

Donald, I think just quitting is a bit much, don't you. While you may have "advertised" for your sponsors when you first joined, you haven't since Kevin has talked to you. After I talked with you over PM, I noticed you didn't post any links to your site, etc. I do think you give good advice and are a very productive member of the site. I personnally would like to see you stay here and continue helping everyone learn.

I know I haven't been here near as long as some (Like Billy and Zook), but I have been here longer than others. One thing I liked about this site was the lack of advertisement in the forums.

I some ways, I do agree with Billy that after Tim was asked to stop, he should have. I also agree that announcement of the sponsorship with alabama was a plug for his product.

I think as a member of this website you should have the right to post about products you believe in. I've never used one of Tims rods, so I can't say whether their better than any rod out or worse than any rod out there, but if I did buy one and I liked it, I'd share my opinion, and I'd also share it if I hated the rod. I'd do the same if it was an Ugly stick, Shimano, Daiwa, St. Croix, or G. Loomis.

But when you endorse products that sponsor you, there is a fine line between truly believing in the product, and advertising for your sponsor. (Donald, I do believe that you truly like the products and are not just advertising). With all the pros that tell you that such and such a bait is the best just because it's their sponsor, it does become difficult for people to determine the difference.

BB

I didnt mean quitting in general. I Just dont want people to think thats why I'm on here.
I understand totally. I do believe in the products I endorse and I will stand by that. I did some long hard thinking today and I think my name was dragged into the mix a bit. I went back and read my posts and at first i did come off a little strong but I feed on information provided by you guys on here. No one can say I didnt nor dont respect ones feelings or values. I think when WTL ran my name out there in the open he should have kept my name out his mouth. I did talk to him today and I hope everything is fine.
See I'm building up a name in life and my name is all I have. Please if you have a problem with what I say or do just call me before you go put my name out there like that. I respect each of y'all and I ask for the same. That being said. I for one would like to see this topic closed. I will stay here because I think I do more good here than bad. I enjoy everyones posts and am not mad at anyone. I just want people to know that I am here to help not hurt. I am not the one who cares about money. I care about people. So if I am offending people I am offending my brothers and sisters. SO please close this topic Kevin. Thanks so much for everyones post on this topic and In the words of Rodney King. Caint we all jus get along.

[carolina-rig-01]

so now let me get this straight. if i have no sponsorship ties to a company then i can talk about how great their products are until i am blue in the face and that is ok. but because i have worked my butt off to be the type of angler a company would want to sponsor both fishing wise as well as how i conduct myself on and off the water, if i am to gain a sponsorship through a company then my testimony of their products automatically holds no value no matter how great their product is or how much i believe in it. seems like something is a little out of whack to me.

[WTL]

For the record, Donald, I thought we were more in agreement during our phone conversation than you have since admitted to publicly. You did admit on the phone that Tim was plugging. You did concede my point that there is a real line between saying a product is good and advertising. And you were the one running your name out there for him. You did that. Not me.

I think that you are a victim of your ties to Tigerodz, which were so strong in the beginning that it was only natural for me to bring it up once Tim started to advertise once again on this site (and you joined in with his recent promotional attempt). I think that since Tim drug you into this situation, you should be mad at him and not me, and you should be a little mad at yourself because it is your name and you have thrown it out there rather cheaply for Tim. I know everyone is clamoring for sponsors, but **** man..... And let me say again, I told you all of that on the phone...

C-rig, Tim owns his company. He is a former advertiser. After his contract expired, he started advertising for free on this site in a way that even paying advertisers are restricted heavily on. He was asked to stop. He did not stop. All this is now on the record, so for the life of me I cant see how you can be so obtuse without it being willfull disagreement.

But on to the point of talking about how great a product is, there comes a time when you connect yourself to a company through official ties where there is a conflict of interest. We all know it when we see it with Bill Dance, but it works the same exact way for a weekend angler on a pro staff. I myself make many posts about hooks, line, lures, rods, anything. But I am unattached. I dont get anything from Owner hooks when I say that I think they are the best deal. I get nothing when I say Thunderstruck jigs are the best. By anything, I not only mean money or tackle, I am talking exposure. And so many of these small timers are just trying to get patches on their shirts saying they are affiliated with X company. Well there is a price to that. When you get on somebody's pro staff, like it or not you are attaching your name to their company. Like Donald did. That is the price you pay for the benefits of name association. You cant take sponsorship, and all its advantages, without acquiring a few disadvantages either. Now that is just how it works, and anybody who wants to put their name out there as a sponsored angler better understand it and the prices you pay for being sponsored. It is not free. Your name is not free.

There should probably at a later time (when some folks cool off in a few weeks) be a discussion of the dirtier sides of the fishing tackle industry, fishing related work and the like. I don't know if I would wish working in the fishing industry on an enemy. So many people think that they want to work in fishing that the labor is cheap and degrading to your name unless your name is Van Dam.

First off WTL. I never agreed with you that Tim was plugging. I said I was plugging for my sponsors when I came on this site originally. I was asked to stop and I did. I didnt even become a sponsor of Tiger rodz until a little bit later on. You have a serious problem and I always said I wouldnt let one bad apple ruin a bunch. Well guess what. I am. You arr slandering my name. Keep my name out of your mouth. I never admitted Tim was plugging. How was he plugging his company when all he said was the UA was an offical sponsor Tigerodz. You think your smarter than what you actually are. You need to drop this freaking matter. Your not right. Kevins not right. You both are wrong. If this is how you want to be then fine. You better stop putting my name in this crap.

Kevin I asked you to drop this discussion. Please do so .

[nofearengineer]

Donald, You can make the argument that WTL is wrong. That is your personal opinion, wrong or right. However, Kevin, by definition, as the owner of this site, is right 100% of the time, as it pertains to what he allows and doesn't allow on his site. If you disagree with his rationale; i.e, Tim was plugging or not plugging, that is your prerogative, but I wouldn't argue with him about his rules for the forum on that forum. Abidance by Kevin's rules is the price of admission for free use of a great website.

Cory (Sorry I've been mis-spelling your name with a "K" by the way...I guess I saw others spell it like that), I absolutely agree that when you "go pro" like you have, it carries with it an ethical code of conduct that hangs around your neck. Trust me, I know all about ethical codes. Clients just love that my first and foremost duty, is to public safety...when the public isn't funding the project.

Here's an interesting hypothetical litmus test. Now I don't know for certain, as I'm not going to put words in either yours or Tim's mouths, but since he's one of your sponsors, he would not be happy about you posting "St. Croix Rods are a great fishing rod." Now I could post that, because who am I but some Joe Shmo angler? I could even say the next week "G. Loomis rods are great too." I can only imagine that sponsors are within their rights to not have you say anything good about other competing brands. They are "paying the bills," so to speak, just like Kevin and his site advertisers.

My point is, as a pro, you shouldn't say something about any brand that you wouldn't feel comfortable saying about other brands. Like I'm sure if I bring up other jig companies, you'd be crazy to say "<insert brand here> jigs are great too." Any bias other than personal, i.e. professional, is the disqualifying factor here. Saying something good because you hope to get a sponsorship would also be a professional bias.

I am with Donald though on just hoping every cools off and relaxes. See how much stress sponsorship and advertising money causes? LOL

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DonaldBreland

Like I said. That was two weeks ago. I haven't received another pm from you in the last two weeks so I must have respected your decision. If you would have had a problem with me then I would have received another email from you.

Originally Posted by DonaldBreland

This is a copy of my last 9 posts. Apparently someone thinks I am on here just to promote products that sponsor me. I just wanted to show my last 9 posts and please check into all of them and see if I'm on here to help people out or to promote products.

Donald, what everyone doesn't realize, and apparently you haven't noticed, is that over the past week or two I've had to edit out promotional plugs and self-promotions in your posts. I didn't delete the posts in their entirety, but I've constantly had to delete lines from those posts where you tell people to go to websites and so forth. I figured maybe you'd notice and get the hint... I guessed wrong.

So when you try to show people your past couple posts to show them there isn't any self-promotion in them... the only reason there isn't is because I deleted those parts of your messages that were plugs.

[WaffleJaw]

so let me get this striaght!!
WTL's last name is ''Love''....so people get to call him Mr.Love?
man,thats the coolest thing Ive heard all week.

[nofearengineer]

Yeah...we can only pray he doesn't get a Ph.D.
I simply refuse to call him "Doctor Love".

[WTL]

Originally Posted by DonaldBreland

First off WTL. I never agreed with you that Tim was plugging.

That is a lie. If you can't admit that, then you arent worth arguing with. Bad faith liar.

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Yeah...we can only pray he doesn't get a Ph.D.
I simply refuse to call him "Doctor Love".

My brother is a medical doctor. I am considering strongly going back to school as well, don't know if I would go that far.

-------------------------------------------------------------
I apologize to C-rig if I misspelled his name. I'm not positive what the proper spelling is....

[brushhog]

No matter what degree you earn, I have now decided to call you Brother Love...

I also believe it is time to end this discussion. Mr. Hog doesn't want to keep you boys in from recess but I will if I have to! Now go along to your next class.

[nofearengineer]

I had a good friend in 8th grade whose last name was "Love". The hoodlums picked on Jimmy no end because of it. It didn't help matters much that Jimmy played tuba in the school band and was just a nice guy.

One day a bully followed Jimmy home, harassing him the whole way, slapping him on the back of the head, circling around him, etc. A bunch of us followed the precession, wondering what was going to happen. Jimmy put up with it until the bully stepped on his lawn. His home turf, so to speak. Jimmy put a whoopin' on that guy that should have been caught on video. He blacked both of his eyes so he looked like a raccoon for a month. He straddled the guy's chest until he said he gave up.

Totally off topic, I know, but just having learned of WTL's surname, it made me wonder if anyone ever gave you crap about it.

[WaffleJaw]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

I had a good friend in 8th grade whose last name was "Love". The hoodlums picked on Jimmy no end because of it. It didn't help matters much that Jimmy played tuba in the school band and was just a nice guy.

One day a bully followed Jimmy home, harassing him the whole way, slapping him on the back of the head, circling around him, etc. A bunch of us followed the precession, wondering what was going to happen. Jimmy put up with it until the bully stepped on his lawn. His home turf, so to speak. Jimmy put a whoopin' on that guy that should have been caught on video. He blacked both of his eyes so he looked like a raccoon for a month. He straddled the guy's chest until he said he gave up.

Totally off topic, I know, but just having learned of WTL's surname, it made me wonder if anyone ever gave you crap about it.

good story.
try having your first name being Walker.
then living in TEXAS,then have chuck norris having a show called:
Walker, Texas ranger
when i was a waiter all those years,i couldnt say my name without them saying...''oh,like texas ranger''...(shaking head)

not to mention my initials being WMN which = WOMEN
that a friend pointed out on a game of golden tee,lol

i had alot of nicknames back in school.
but chuck norris's show nearly drove me insane.

[WTL]

Originally Posted by WaffleJaw

good story.
try having your first name being Walker.
then living in TEXAS,then have chuck norris having a show called:
Walker, Texas ranger
when i was a waiter all those years,i couldnt say my name without them saying...''oh,like texas ranger''...(shaking head)

not to mention my initials being WMN which = WOMEN
that a friend pointed out on a game of golden tee,lol

i had alot of nicknames back in school.
but chuck norris's show nearly drove me insane.

I got more crap for Billy than for Love. And the combination.

Apparently there was a character in the Nutty Professor named Buddy Love. I heard that about every day for 2 years or so once. Kinda made me never care to watch the movie to find out. But otherwise it wasnt as bad as it coulda been.

[brushhog]

I have two first names... meaning my last name is a common first name. So I am continually called by my last name, by people who think it is my first name.

[carolina-rig-01]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Cory (Sorry I've been mis-spelling your name with a "K" by the way...I guess I saw others spell it like that)

now that everyone seems to be thoroughly confused as to how i spell my name, i guess this is where i should point out that nofear has been spelling it right all along. it is kory johnson. i overlooked the fact that wtl had been mispelling it all along because i was pissed about more important things.

[nofearengineer]

Okay...I'm a doofus. I guess it's not as bad as calling you Karolina rig though.

[BigBassin144]

Billy, what about Captain Brother Love of the SS Zara Spook?

K-rig, lol.

BB

[1/4 stick]

Originally Posted by WaffleJaw

good story.
try having your first name being Walker.
then living in TEXAS,then have chuck norris having a show called:
Walker, Texas ranger
when i was a waiter all those years,i couldnt say my name without them saying...''oh,like texas ranger''...(shaking head)

not to mention my initials being WMN which = WOMEN
that a friend pointed out on a game of golden tee,lol

i had alot of nicknames back in school.
but chuck norris's show nearly drove me insane.

Try going through life with a duck's name.

[MississippiBoy]

Originally Posted by 1/4 stick

Try going through life with a duck's name.

Pintail? yeah, you probably got beat up a lot for that one...

[WaffleJaw]

Originally Posted by 1/4 stick

Try going through life with a duck's name.

its not Daffy,is it?