BS and the gulf oil spill

[keithdog]

When Katrina hit the US, the press and the Dems lashed out at Bush for the feds lack of response. Now that the oil spill has worsened after many weeks without any kind of response from the federal goverment, the press is turning a blind eye to Obamas response to the distaster. And they say the press is not biased. BS! One could say that this is BP Amacos problem and not the goverments. But Obama is on record claiming the feds are partially responsible for the disaster due to lack of enforcement by the feds. He's also said the goverment will make sure the cleanup effort is successful. But how? And besides, if Bush were in office while this was going on, and having responded as Obama has, he would be getting reamed by the press hourly. Just say'in.

[1/4 stick]

If it had been Bush, they'd have already had him impeached. Make no mistake, I'm no fan of Bush. But this is making Bush look like a miricale worker.

[66KingFisher]

I have zero to say about the politics behind all this mess...I'll leave that to all the folks that enjoy that part......But what gets my goat about this whole ordeal is this.

I've been watching the live camera feed from BP's website for several days now, and I gotta tell ya I find it hard to believe that we couldn't have stopped this leak completely, or at very least, reduced its flow greatly by simply pinching off that broken piece of pipe that was sticking up from the top of the Blowout preventer. It would seem to me that all they had to do was take that big arse cutter tool they just used to cut the pipe, and modify it with some crimper jaws instead of cutter blades....now use all that hydrolic power to crimp that pipe closed and stop the flow of oil......I mean come on....I'm no rocket scientist, nor do I consider myself very smart, but unless i'm really missing the boat here, I see no reason why something that simple wouldn't have worked.....Am I wrong?

[1/4 stick]

I think they need me and Zook to show em how to use duck tape, coat hangers, and bungie cords. I'm sure we could throw some WD-40 in there some where too.

[keithdog]

I gotta agree with ya 66. Now I'm no fan of Obama, but I will admit the feds are definately less prepared to handle this situation that the oil boys. It's hard to believe this has gone on so long. I know it's a long ways down there but there are so many submersibles designed to work at those depths. Obama is not to blame, and can't be expected to fix the problem. But that is my whole point. If Bush were president, the press and the Dems would be crucifying him by now for not having fixed the disaster. What a difference it makes when you have the donkey tatooed on your resume.

[keithdog]

Originally Posted by 1/4 stick

I think they need me and Zook to show em how to use duck tape, coat hangers, and bungie cords. I'm sure we could throw some WD-40 in there some where too.

Don't forget the JB Weld!!! LOL

[1/4 stick]

Originally Posted by keithdog

Don't forget the JB Weld!!! LOL

Nope, can't forget that!

[Bubba_Bruiser]

Yeah KF, it does sound good, but they don't know why the well blew out in the first place. And there is some serious pressure going on down there. It shot a 5000' water column up in a matter of seconds. And I don't know the inside diameter of the pipe, but it was probably greater than 12". That is a lot of volume moved. The casing that has been ran might not be able to sustain the pressure being produced by stopping it completely too. It could cause underground channels and just start blowing from other numerous places on the sea floor. Sort of like it does "naturally" off the coast of California.

[66KingFisher]

Originally Posted by Bubba_Bruiser

Yeah KF, it does sound good, but they don't know why the well blew out in the first place. And there is some serious pressure going on down there. It shot a 5000' water column up in a matter of seconds. And I don't know the inside diameter of the pipe, but it was probably greater than 12". That is a lot of volume moved. The casing that has been ran might not be able to sustain the pressure being produced by stopping it completely too. It could cause underground channels and just start blowing from other numerous places on the sea floor. Sort of like it does "naturally" off the coast of California.

I thought about high pressures and I don't know what kinda pressure they are dealing with, but.....wouldn't all that pressure still be in the pipes underground had the blowout preventer actually done its job?

[Bubba_Bruiser]

Yeah, but if it got high enough, it will fracture the casing (Piping). I don't think they know if the blow out is coming from the primary casing or liner, or if it has already fractured and coming from a different casing string. When you drill a well like that, you run casing at different intervals that tapers down to the hole size to keep the well from collapsing or to protect you from different zones in the well. We have started out with 72" casings and ran final strings of 2 7/8" for production. We perform integrity test, or called leak off test to see where this failure is with mud weight when the BOP is closed. I was just saying, if you were to pinch it off and don't know if there is communication between the other casings, it could cause a bigger mess than they have right now and an underground blowout. If they don't have any communication in the casings, it would just bull head back on itself and maybe stop.

[66KingFisher]

Obviously, there are other issues in the background on a project like this, that people like myself know nothing about, so I appreciate your input Bubba. I tend to think using the old "KISS" theory when I'm looking for solutions for problems....You know the one i'm talkin about "Keep It Simple Stupid" theory.....lol.....I've lived by that rule along time and its served me well, so I couldn't help but think that maybe all the brilliant minds working on this problem might be overlooking something so simple as pinching the pipe.

[BassinNC]

All I know is this is a national disaster and if I was obama I'd have everyone from nasa working with the oil company. Don't really need any of those dumb a's from washington doing anything.

[nmanley]

Originally Posted by BassinNC

All I know is this is a national disaster and if I was obama I'd have everyone from nasa working with the oil company. Don't really need any of those dumb a's from washington doing anything.

The cleanup problem is solved here http://www.wimp.com/solutionoil but the Governments scientist want to use Bacteria technology to clean up the oil. Got ANY idea how long THAT will take. A dam site longer than the two boys with their simple idea. See the link.

[Bassboss]

As far as I know, I agree. Obama has not done a whole lot to help clean up the oil spill. And as far as I know, he has not asked for, or passed any laws (yet) to help prevent this from happening again. How ever I'm still confidant that he'll do something about it.

[WTL]

Originally Posted by Bassboss

As far as I know, I agree. Obama has not done a whole lot to help clean up the oil spill. And as far as I know, he has not asked for, or passed any laws (yet) to help prevent this from happening again. How ever I'm still confidant that he'll do something about it.

If only the world could be saved by just passing a law. Lets make oil spills illegal!

============================================

Obama does not deserve the intensity of blame he is getting for this mess. It was an accident which he cannot fix. There is an unreasonable set of expectations applied to the modern president where we think he is akin to God on earth who can cut through to the heart of problems and solve them, and you just have to realize that sometimes there are limits to what can be done.

This should not be political in terms of parties or people, although it will become more so cause there are points to be made. But we should look at the office of President, and the executive branch and congress and the courts and the bureaucracy and realize that they really are inefficient problem solvers. These institutions should be the ones taking the blame.

And while we are at it, we should look into whether or not the structure of government regulation is doing as the democrats say, saving us from accidents, or as I would contend, saving big oil corporations from competition in the marketplace and possibly repercussions in the courts. You can really only come to 2 conclusions regarding regulation in this mess;

1.) We need more

or

2.) Relying on regulation to protect us, when the people doing the regulation will always have close political and financial ties to whatever lobby they are regulating, is naive. The better solution is to create a legal environment where, when a company like BP does screw up in such a manner, they can be held liable by all parties damaged for just compensation. The fear of then one day coming before the courts will keep the BPs more in line with safe practices, just as you will not dump garbage on your neighbors front yard for fear of consequences.

[1/4 stick]

Originally Posted by Bassboss

As far as I know, I agree. Obama has not done a whole lot to help clean up the oil spill. And as far as I know, he has not asked for, or passed any laws (yet) to help prevent this from happening again. How ever I'm still confidant that he'll do something about it.

No, he's talking about passing new carbon taxes instead.

"The only way the transition to clean energy will succeed is if the private sector is fully invested in this future," he said. "And the only way to do that is by finally putting a price on carbon pollution."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/06/...ill/index.html


I agree we need cleaner sources of energy, but where do they think we're going to get the money to pay for all his/their spending and pay more taxes for the carbon and the rest of the taxes they can think up?

[bcklash]

Originally Posted by 1/4 stick

I think they need me and Zook to show em how to use duck tape, coat hangers, and bungie cords. I'm sure we could throw some WD-40 in there some where too.

Originally Posted by keithdog

Don't forget the JB Weld!!! LOL

Rednecks-hahaaa, like me. Makes me proud.

[Rebbasser]

Originally Posted by 66KingFisher

I have zero to say about the politics behind all this mess...I'll leave that to all the folks that enjoy that part......But what gets my goat about this whole ordeal is this.

I've been watching the live camera feed from BP's website for several days now, and I gotta tell ya I find it hard to believe that we couldn't have stopped this leak completely, or at very least, reduced its flow greatly by simply pinching off that broken piece of pipe that was sticking up from the top of the Blowout preventer. It would seem to me that all they had to do was take that big arse cutter tool they just used to cut the pipe, and modify it with some crimper jaws instead of cutter blades....now use all that hydrolic power to crimp that pipe closed and stop the flow of oil......I mean come on....I'm no rocket scientist, nor do I consider myself very smart, but unless i'm really missing the boat here, I see no reason why something that simple wouldn't have worked.....Am I wrong?

66, I think that same thing every time I see a video of that pipe spewing oil. I guess they don't try it because 1) the government is now involved, which means nothing is being done, and 2) it makes sense.

Keith, you say the press is turning a blind eye to obama's response. What response other that "we've been on it from day one"? Reading a teleprompter ain't going to fix this one.

[geezer1]

Originally Posted by nmanley

The cleanup problem is solved here http://www.wimp.com/solutionoil but the Governments scientist want to use Bacteria technology to clean up the oil. Got ANY idea how long THAT will take. A dam site longer than the two boys with their simple idea. See the link.

Good video, nmanley. Sometimes the simplest solutions are, indeed, the best.

[screwballl]

So where are all the "Save the Gulf" concerts? Where is Michelle Obama getting all over the TV asking for money to help clean up the oil? Where are the T.V. Benefits with celebrities and musicians giving heart felt speeches on the poor fisherman, wildlife, beaches, loss of income and sabotaged gulf economy? I find it rather strange how these people (including our own government) are so quick to help Haiti and other countries... but sit on their butt for this one.

I live on the Gulf Coast of FL, not too far from Pensacola... We went to the beach the other day to take a few pictures of our daughters and enjoy the nice white beaches before they turn black for the next decade. They said when it started the water current would bring it to us in a few days. The rain farther up north flushing the rivers, weather, wind, currents all caused it to keep the oil more confined. Now there is less to keep it confined so it is able to spread around.

I see things multiple ways here:

First, the conspiracy theorist in me says this is some sort of setup by some Michael Moore type of extremist environmentalists. Blow up an oil tanker (or pipeline or whatever) to prove the point of showing what oil in the gulf does. Open some eyes and get the government to ban offshore drilling. Short term inconvenience (oil spill) to cure a long term "problem" (offshore drilling) in their eyes.

Second, the blame does sit on BP for allowing this to happen, but for the cleanup efforts, the blame does not lie squarely on BP nor solely on the government. BP needs gov't permission to do what they need to do, and the gov't needs BP permission to do anything with their equipment, tankers, facilities or offshore derricks. Government cannot just seize or do what it wants with private or corporate property. As we saw with Hurricane Katrina, a total lack of accepting blame means everyone would rather point fingers than to get anything done.

Third, people think this is man made and not natural, which in the case of a pipe bursting or ship exploding, sure that aspect of it is... but if there is all that oil under there to begin with, in the history of this planet there had to have been earthquakes or shifts in the sea floor or coastal areas that would have opened up an oil reserve causing it all to flush to the surface and likely was much much worse than what we see now. The planet always adapts and has ways to help clean itself up. It may take a few thousand years but that is natural and normal for natural "pollutants". Man is just so worried either about the impact on the money they stand to lose or the "poor animals" that they do not realize that we are short term visitors here in the scope of the age of this planet. Fish may die but in a decade or two they will be back like they always have been.

[WTL]

I went to weeks bay this morning with the kayak to do a little fishing. Weeks bay is a small bay that is connected to the southern end of mobile bay. In the past 2 days they have boomed the mouth of the bay about 2 times over and parked a couple barges in the mouth to try and keep the oil out. Hopefully the narrow openings at the bays will keep the larger area of oil from really contaminating the bay. They are willing to let the beaches get messed up, what they want to protect are marshes and estuaries.

For the national crowd, we have had a couple state politicians say in the press that louisiana is getting preferential treatment from the feds - ie, they promised Alabama more booms and boats, but somehow all those materials went to Louisiana. I'm really not big in expecting the feds to do anything, but if they promise they are going to give us X amount of materials they should follow through. I dont think the president can do all that much about this mess, but I would think he could see that their word is kept. Thats fair, aint it?

[1/4 stick]

It's more than fair WTL.

I fear though, that some, including Obama, see this as an oppertunity. I don't think the prez is in any hurry to clean this mess up, because the more damage that is done will give them more ammunition against oil and to lay more taxes on us to feed to their carbon credit joke. And to put into windmill farms and nuclear plants which will never be built because no one wants them around them.

I pray for you folks down there. And for all of us, because in the end, eventually the rest of the country will feel the results of the damage.

[keithdog]

I just wish the press would play fair ball with every administration instead of giving presidents from the Democratic party a pass on the serious issues. Had any republican president such as Bush been in this situation for this long, there would be cries for impeachment and a congressional investigation.

[nofearengineer]

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men."

[bassinbob]

Amen, nofear.