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Old 04-15-10, 04:18 PM   #1
BigBassin144
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Default Lighter vs. Balanced

The discussion in my thread on the Kistler Micro Mg rods got me thinking.

The emphasis these days seems to be on lighter, lighter, lighter. Lighter rods, lighter reels. It seems the lighter they make a rod or reel, the more people want it, and the more they charge for it. But is being the lightest the best? Is less really more?

When talking about the weights of reels, most will agree lighter is better. But rods are a completely different story. Some prefer the absolute lightest rod you can get, while other would rather have a more balanced rod.

So, what about the things that make rods lighter or more balanced.

I’ll start with guides since micro guides have been such a hot topic lately. A set of micro guides will lighten up a rod by about 0.20 oz (from TT’s Kistler Micro Magnesium review). Disregarding micro guides’ other advantages and their disadvantages, everyone can agree on one thing; they make a rod lighter, and more balanced. Because they not only reduce the weight of the rod, but also reduce the weight of the rod in front of the reel seat, they are advantageous to both sides of the Light vs. Balanced argument.

Next up are the handles, and more specifically, split vs full grip. 20 cork rings (enough to make a 10” rear handle), before being reamed to fit on a rod blank, weight about 0.90 oz. When you’re talking about a 4-6 oz rod, almost a whole ounce can be quite a bit. Especially if you figure in the epoxy used to hold the cork together and to the blank. Now, I figure on the majority of split grips, less than half of the material is removed, and normally some accents are added. A fancy wrap between the grips, metal winding check or other accents, and even some of the glossy coatings used for split grips all add some of that weight back.

However, this is a situation where one must choose between balancing the rod and reducing its weight. Because, while split grips may lighten the rod slightly, they are reducing weight behind the reel seat, making the rod even more tip heavy.

Another aspect of balancing the rod comes with choosing the reel that will be mounted on it. Most of the time, the reel is slightly behind the fulcrum, it will help you balance the rod out. This is why some rods balance better with certain reels.

So, what are the advantages of a lightweight or well-balanced rod?

Well, a lighter rod will reduce fatigue during a long day of fishing. But in my opinion, if you’re a casual or weekend angler, and aren’t on the water all day long for three or more days in tournament conditions, and are getting fatigued because you’re bass fishing rod and reel combos are too heavy, you should start working out.

A well-balanced rod on the other hand has many more advantages. First of all, if a rod is balanced correctly, it will actually feel lighter than it is. Secondly, it will be more sensitive. Now, the blank itself won’t be more sensitive, but it will feel like it is. Finally, a perfectly balanced rod will probably wear you out less than a lighter but tip heavy rod.

I’m sure most of us have seen or heard of the new Shimano Cumulus rods; the lightest bass fishing rods on the market. With the lightest rod weighing in at an unheard of 2.75 oz, it brings up the question, how much lighter can rods get? Shimano has taken it so far as to even engrave the rod’s name and specs in the EVA foam handles as opposed to printing them on the blank. But I seriously wonder about how balanced these rods really are.

Also, take a look at some of the Kistler rods, or more specifically, the two mentioned in the TT article. Both are 7’ MH rods, and both weigh less than the baseline rod for their 2010 reviews, a special edition G Loomis GLX 2000. However, without a reel, the GLX balances 5” above the reel seat, while the Kistler Magnesiums, with micro and regular guides, balance at 11 and 11.5” respectively. I know it isn’t a fair comparison due to the differenced in split vs. full grips, but I doubt that a full grip would lower the balance point 6” on the Kistlers.

One last example: There are two companies that I know of that are know for not having the lightest rods, but some of the most balanced rods on the market. Those companies are Powell and Dobyns. A look at the Dobyns Champion Extreme 703 (7’ MH) shows that the 5.20 oz rod balances at 5.5” (According the TT’s review of the rod). I’ve seen rods balance 5.5” WITH a reel, so I’d say that’s pretty good.

So, what do you guys think? Is lighter really better?




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Old 04-15-10, 05:14 PM   #2
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Its completely up to the fisherman...Certain rods perform certain task where balance is going to be more improtant than weight...The last sentence can be written backwards and be correct as well...Its very subjective
My personal preference is too find the happy medium in between..
Lightweight and balance are always good...Both working together make for the perfect fishing weapon that is gonna be easier to read and use.
Although I will add that I strive for balance more than less weight....
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Old 04-15-10, 05:41 PM   #3
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I will take a well balanced rod over a light, tip heavy one everyday of the week. Good balance = perceived lightness. A tip heavy rod that weighs 3 oz is still going to feel heavy.
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Old 04-15-10, 07:24 PM   #4
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A well-balanced rod on the other hand has many more advantages. First of all, if a rod is balanced correctly, it will actually feel lighter than it is. Secondly, it will be more sensitive.

I'm interested in hearing how a well balanced rod makes the rod more sensative, can you expound on this a little.
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Old 04-15-10, 07:57 PM   #5
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I would come down on the side of a well balanced rod/reel. Since I'm an old geezer and have arthritis in my wrist (caused from injuries while racing cars in my mis-spent youth), a well balanced set up makes casting much more tolerable over a period of time. The optimum of course would be an ultra light weight yet well balanced combo.
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Old 04-15-10, 08:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavery5 View Post
A well-balanced rod on the other hand has many more advantages. First of all, if a rod is balanced correctly, it will actually feel lighter than it is. Secondly, it will be more sensitive.

I'm interested in hearing how a well balanced rod makes the rod more sensative, can you expound on this a little.
A well balanced rod will make you more sensitive to bite detection.When you have a rod that floats in your hand,your using less tension in your hand to hold that tip up allowing you to feel more resonation coming through.Also saving muscle fatigue.
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Old 04-15-10, 10:07 PM   #7
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I've gone so far as to actually add weight to the butt of a rod just to achieve better balance. A oz or more of weight added inside the butt of the blank of a rod will make the rod feel so much lighter just because it moves the fulcrum point under your hand instead of way out in front of it. Think of it like picking up lumber. If you don't grab a 2x12x16 in the center you aren't going to have much luck lifting it. Same principle at work here, leverage is key.

When I build a rod my reel seat placement is based solely on balance. I will do a mock up with a reel to try to achieve the best balance I can. Perfect balance isn't always possible without making a 15" grip. I shoot to keep the fulcrum no more than 2" in front of the reel seat with directly under the seat being optimum.
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Old 04-15-10, 10:33 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by WaffleJaw View Post
A well balanced rod will make you more sensitive to bite detection.When you have a rod that floats in your hand,your using less tension in your hand to hold that tip up allowing you to feel more resonation coming through.Also saving muscle fatigue.

I wont disagree with you on this, but this is a totaly different issue than the rod itself being more sensative because of balance.
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Old 04-15-10, 10:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavery5 View Post
I wont disagree with you on this, but this is a totaly different issue than the rod itself being more sensative because of balance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBassin144 View Post
Secondly, it will be more sensitive. Now, the blank itself won’t be more sensitive, but it will feel like it is.
I didn't go into detail about this, but waffle is correctly. The more balanced the rod is, the more sensitive it will SEEM. Just light a balanced rod will SEEM lighter than it really is.

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Old 04-15-10, 10:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavery5 View Post
I wont disagree with you on this, but this is a totaly different issue than the rod itself being more sensative because of balance.
A rod blank can't really be made more sensitive. Sensitivity in fishing is the ability to detect vibrations through the rod. Think about a tuning fork, if you hold it tightly you are going to dampen the vibrations when you strike it. A fishing rod uses the same principle. If you have your balance point under your hand it takes less force to grip the rod thus allowing more vibrations to be transmitted.
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Old 04-16-10, 03:59 PM   #11
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I think the first few lines said it all:

For tourney fishermen, a light AND balanced rod will make things work much better (but they also have the money or sponsors to get that equipment).

For the rest of us weekend warriors and enthusiasts, I think weight has less to do with it so a balanced rod within our budget will work better for us.


Speaking of which I need to do some balancing on 2 of my setups as they are tip heavy
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Old 04-16-10, 05:34 PM   #12
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I used to think that lighter was better. But after handling the AG 7' vendetta's with a reel (daiwa HSTA), and knowing that the they're not the lightest rod out there (someone posted the weight, and I think it like in the high 5's), and with a 8.7oz reel, it was about a 14, oz combo, not to light. But it did not FEEL that heavy at all! And that's was really matters. I could have a 20oz combo, but as long as it FEELS light (which would be because of balance), I'm happy!

Some IMO Balance over light weight (but a light weight balanced rod is good also! ).
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Old 04-16-10, 08:50 PM   #13
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I have a BPS Extreme spinning rod with the balncing kit and i love it! its really sensitive and SEEMS light
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Old 04-16-10, 09:19 PM   #14
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A rod blank can't really be made more sensitive. Sensitivity in fishing is the ability to detect vibrations through the rod. Think about a tuning fork, if you hold it tightly you are going to dampen the vibrations when you strike it. A fishing rod uses the same principle. If you have your balance point under your hand it takes less force to grip the rod thus allowing more vibrations to be transmitted.

This sounds good, but one thing does not seem to fit. The rod is what transmits the vibration, but isn't the rod affixed to the reel seat and and handle. I don't think you can grip the handle tight enough to squeeze the vibration out of it. The three materials that are joined to form the matrix of the blank are graphite, scrim and resin. Graphite of course is the one that gets the press. It's one rating that most anglers are familiar with is modulus. In layman's terms modulus means resistance to flex. The higher the modulus of the graphite, the stiffer the blank. This allows powerful and extremely sensitive blanks to be engineered while reducing the amount of material. Less material means less weight and less mass for the vibrations that are being generated out in the lake to travel through, thus increasing the rod's sensitivity.

The above is a quote from an article I was reading about sensitivity in rods. If I read it correctly, the nature of a lighter rod is to be more sensitive than that of a heavy rod because the materials used to create light rods and the fact that the vibration has to travel across a less dense conductor, make it so. Balance may make a rod feel better to cast, but it has very little to do with sensitivity. Think about it, a well balanced broomstick is still a broomstick.

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Old 04-17-10, 12:24 AM   #15
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I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud...maybe JRob has a point. It may not be that gripping the heavier rod harder actually dampens the vibrations, it may just decrease your PERCEPTION of vibration. Your "feel" is much better with a gentle grip than it would be with a baseball bat grip.
Maybe try an experiment...let out some line, hold the rod as gently as possible, and have someone else hold the line and gently pluck it like a harp string. Now hold the rod a lot harder and repeat the test. I'd bet money you feel it a lot better with a relaxed grip than a tight one. The rod is probably still vibrating the same in both cases, you'll just feel it better with a looser grip.
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Old 04-17-10, 09:24 AM   #16
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I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud...maybe JRob has a point. It may not be that gripping the heavier rod harder actually dampens the vibrations, it may just decrease your PERCEPTION of vibration. Your "feel" is much better with a gentle grip than it would be with a baseball bat grip.
Maybe try an experiment...let out some line, hold the rod as gently as possible, and have someone else hold the line and gently pluck it like a harp string. Now hold the rod a lot harder and repeat the test. I'd bet money you feel it a lot better with a relaxed grip than a tight one. The rod is probably still vibrating the same in both cases, you'll just feel it better with a looser grip.
I don't know either, that is why I hoped to create some discussion on this subject. I am just taking the other side of the discussion, and have read some about the creation of rods and why some are more sensitive than others. We are probably overthinking the whole subject, I mean after all we are talking about rod and reel combos, that when on the heavy side, weight slightly more than a can of your favorite beverage. Anyway, good conversation, and good luck with your fishing.
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Old 04-17-10, 09:27 AM   #17
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You can't change how sensitive a rod blank is, you can change how well you receive those vibrations though. It's the weight vs. balance issue again, it's all about perception. A well balanced rod is going to feel more sensitive and lighter even though the reality is the sensitivity is the same and the weight is well...what it is.
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Old 04-17-10, 02:33 PM   #18
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You can't change the sensitivity of the blank - for certain. But you can change the sensitivity between rods built on the same blank, through the components attached to the blank. I don't build them, so maybe I'm incorrect on the logic here. The guides used will increase/decrease the rods ability to transmit vibrations (recoil vs. Alconite as an example). Line used also (mono vs. braid). Reel seats, handle all enter in to the equation of having the perfect rod. After you have the "perfect" rod you slap a reel on it and you're out of whack again, depending on what reel you pair it with. If you purchase a rod built with the best components, lightest blank - then add weight to balance it, you've increased the weight (mass) of the rod which decreases the overall "sensitivity" of the rod. I'm still sticking with the light combo, a slightly tip heavy rod isn't as noticable (to me) as an ounce or more of total weight added to a combo, and slightly desirable in certain situations when fishing with the rod pointed toward the water.
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Old 04-17-10, 02:48 PM   #19
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since i tend to use some of the long sticks . i'll say balance is more techique specific. when cranking or throwing a blade i want my stick nose heavy. and working toucky feely baits like a jig a but heavy works best..

over all weight has never been an issue for me..

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Old 04-17-10, 07:58 PM   #20
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I say light, then you can always balance it can't you? Just wondering.............
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Old 04-17-10, 08:07 PM   #21
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I say light, then you can always balance it can't you? Just wondering.............
You can, but to balance it you add weight, kind of defeats the purpose of light.
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Old 04-17-10, 08:12 PM   #22
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Point well taken. Hmmmmmmmmm.
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Old 04-18-10, 07:39 AM   #23
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Rubber chair tips work well for balancing.....7/8" size works best on my particular rods. Mashing splitshot and tinkering with the amount of weight is easy.....making it simple to balance a rod and reel. Then, if you don't prefer the balanced outfit, simply take off the chair tip.

Even with the added weight, the balanced outfit is much less tiring for me, especially when finesse fishing with long pauses in the presentation. Just my two cents.

Concerning sensativity, if you don't grab the rod tightly and get in the habit of using the second finger at the balance point of a spinning outfit to hold most of the rod's weight, the slightest tic will move the rod tip. By providing a fulcrum, the whole rod becomes sensative in that manner.

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