Sneak peak (Rod build #2 grips)

[WaffleJaw]

Im really getting addicted to EVA grips...haha...I just finished up the inlay work on the grips for the new rod...I think they turned out really nice!!
Going for another split grip....Mark Fisher (rod builder from Australia ) sent me multiple emails on how to do these inlays...

[CMorg]

Those are nice man. I like em...you like the foam for the ease of custom build , or the feeling while fishing ?

[WaffleJaw]

Originally Posted by CMorg

Those are nice man. I like em...you like the foam for the ease of custom build , or the feeling while fishing ?

Thanks Cmorg....Man,after fiddling with EVA grips..I just find them more comfortable than cork...You dont get chunks torn out like cork,they seem to be easier to clean and maintain...Im really liking them....Just my opinion.
(plus you'll never see surf rods with cork handles,so those big,saltwater fisherman have got to know something,lol)

Now from a builder point of view:
Its waaaaaaay cheaper to buy than cork...I bought a 3'' black grip for $0.89 cents at Barlows.....The cork was around $3.00 for example
Its extremely easy to cut...I cut these on a lathe (my drill,lol) using size D thread pressed against it vertically....cuts like butter!!! and cuts it perfectly straight.
It also sands just as easily as cork on the lathe

[CMorg]

Im going to build me a rod soon , I can feel it. What blanks are the best ? I heard someone say rainbow. I have been ( dont know why ) buying all kistler rods recently ( 3 this month ). Anyway I may get the Helium blanks. How hard is it to find the spline without any special contraptions ??

[BigBassin144]

Cmorg, it's not very hard to fine the spline. All you need is a hard surface (like a floor).

Put the tip of the blank on the floor and with your finger on the butt end of the rod, push down to slightly bend the rod. Spin the rod with your free hand. It should jump to the same position every time is gets close as you spin it. This should be your spline.

As for blanks, I didn't even know Kistler sells blanks. Rainshadow is a pretty good and fairly inexpensive blank. If you can still find some G.Loomis blanks, they're great. St. croix is another option and I beleive Phenix rods sells their blanks through their website.


BB

[CMorg]

Rainshadow thats it. I seen Kistlers on EBay. But then again , I think this guy sells factory repaired rods , so the blanks may be bad too ?? Once you find the spline , thats were the guides go , right ? On top of the spline ?

[WaffleJaw]

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

Cmorg, it's not very hard to fine the spline. All you need is a hard surface (like a floor).

Put the tip of the blank on the floor and with your finger on the butt end of the rod, push down to slightly bend the rod. Spin the rod with your free hand. It should jump to the same position every time is gets close as you spin it. This should be your spline.

As for blanks, I didn't even know Kistler sells blanks. Rainshadow is a pretty good and fairly inexpensive blank. If you can still find some G.Loomis blanks, they're great. St. croix is another option and I beleive Phenix rods sells their blanks through their website.


BB

I do this the oppisite way (either way works fine) I put the butt end of the rod against a hard surface...( I use a TV tray) and the rod tip in your hands...When you bend and roll, the butt will ''snap'' usually on both side of the spine.You roll one way, it will snap,and then you baaaarly roll it the other way,and it will snap to the other side...so I find the balance in the middle,and mark that as my spine..Does that make sense?...All the spine is ,is where the rolled graphite overlaps...You can usually look at the butt end and see the thicker part...That wont necessarily be the spine,but it wont be far off..

You want the spine to be the belly of the rod...Thats the strength and you want it on the bottom....so you put your guides,reel seat on TOP of the spine....The oppisite side.

Im using a Rainshadow RX7 blank for this build,after BigBassin mentioned it,and I did some research form other builders that swear by em...For the price its hard to beat!!..I feel the lighter weight and sensitivity already in it compared to the first blank I used that cost about the same.

[riverfisher]

Cmorg check out mudhole check the videos out in rod building 101. Lots of good info!!

http://www.mudhole.com/

[WaffleJaw]

Originally Posted by riverfisher

Cmorg check out mudhole check the videos out in rod building 101. Lots of good info!!

http://www.mudhole.com/

I order almost everything from Mudhole...They have a ton of stuff on there,Its a great site!!...With the exception of the Rainshadow blanks...We order those from Jannsnetcraft.com

Heres a few sites that I get tons of info,tutorials,and tips from...Alot of these guys love teaching and will answer questions through email..

http://www.acidrod.com/
http://rodbuildingtutorials.com/
http://rodbuilding.org/list.php?2
http://www.merricktackle.com/

I like Merrick Tackle cause they carry Matagi components (very cool but expensive) Thier a custom Japanese company for rod building..
Heres thier site:

http://www.matagi.co.jp/english/index.html

[Bubba_Bruiser]

youtube.com has a bunch of info for rod building too. I have got the bug, just don't have backing right now to try to get in it.

[nofearengineer]

Waffle...I am hugely impressed by your grips. I would imagine that most people don't try to get all artistic on their first couple of rods. Kudos to you, man. I'm feeling inspired...maybe next year when I get some more tools (and my garage straightened out LOL), I'll try one. I'll have to bug you for your insights then.

I do question something you said though. You were talking about the spine as "the strength of the rod." You said to put it on the "belly". By "strength", I would imagine you meant "that which increases power and stiffness," right? If so, then you would want the spine of the rod to be on top, not bottom. That would provide the most strength under deep bending.

Things tend to fail under tension rather than compression. Pure compressive failure is very rare in almost any instance, any material.

[CMorg]

Nofear , you are an awsome source of information. I for one am happy you joined this site. Either way about the spine , I am going to try to build me a rod. And I am sure I will be asking a few questions to the rod builders here. Thanks for the links..

[TnTom]

Anyone in the neighbor hood of High Point NC Feb 2010 The International Rod Building Expo happens again.

http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/spine.html for a spine finding jig. Pretty detailed and it works.

"You do not need to align anything with the spine. For the most part, the spine thing was all a myth, and never proven to do what so many said it does. In fact, it has been proven not to prevent rod twist nor to enhance casting accuracy.

Beyond that, you can still align the guides with the spine if you so desire. It won't hurt anything. Your problem is that most fishermen, bass fishermen in particular, do not cast the same way each time. One cast may be overhead, one sidearm, one an underhanded flip.

I would suggest finding the straightest axis on the blank and positioning that so that the butt and tip are up, and the belly down (this will be the natural or concave curve to the blank). Mount everything accordingly and let your brother go fishing. ."

Just another opinion
Wafflejaw I think you've got it, it looks great !!!

[WaffleJaw]

Thanks guys,I got the handle glue'd up yesterday with the grips,reel seat,and winding checks (aluminum rings that accent the grips)...I didnt do a forgrip this round,and so far this build is going great!!...Im hoping to start the thread art on the split grip tonight (after Hero's acourse,lol)

On the spine,Ive heard guys who do place it on top along with the guides etc....But like TnTom said,and Im agreeing with, is that I dont know if there is a matter of difference...I place the spine on the bottom cause thats how I was taught,and I saw in mutiple articles that the guides go 180 degrees of the spine...So my question was,on a spinning rod ,would the spine go on top???...and thats when I started thinking maybe it really doesnt matter all that much....Im still green at all of this in that sense..

As far as the grips went,though....Heres a clip of an email I sent to another guy on how I did it...They were almost ''easy'' to make...I swear.

''Man they really aren't that hard to make...I didnt use the strips, and I bought everything from mudhole,as well.
I got the black in 3/8 ID (Inside Diameter) and bought the 24'' stock color EVA foam in 1/2 ID cause they dont wanna stock it in 3/8 anymore....which sucks.

What I did was put the foam on a drill (my lathe) and used size ''D'' thread and held it vertically to it and pressed down to cut the trim rings ,,,You wont believe how easy and clean it cuts through the foam!! and very,very straight!!.I didnt measure a thing,haha...For the circles I used a grommet puncher,basically all it is ,is a 3'' steel hollow tube with a sharpened end..I think most hardware stores carry them in thier grommet kits...again I just twisted it through the foam by hand..no drill, and very clean cuts...then used a paintbrush to pop out the chunk of foam.
I used Duro all purpose spray adhesive to glue em up. ..Any contact adhesive should be fine,but this spray one has a faster set-up and dry time and its waaaaay easier and not so messy.The goal is to have an adhesive that will flex with the foam and not be hard and the Duro delivers.....It was ready for sanding after 1/2 an hour after being lightly clamped...The hardest part was lining up the pieces...since I have two different sizes it was a little harder,but I think they'll work just fine..I just eyeball'd it.....and applied one piece at a time..I was more concerned lining up the black 3/8 sense that is what going to be hitting the blanks,and I'll shim the red tapered end with masking tape to hold it still.
Well thats pretty much it...It only took me a little longer than an hour to get them ready for sanding....
On the the sanding the red and white will be considerably wider than the black,so get that even first before you start your tapering.

[nofearengineer]

Take a look at golf club shafts, which are also made from carbon fiber graphite. Many golf club fitters offer to "spline" (similar word, same meaning) the shafts for a nominal fee. The goal with golf clubs is to produce repeatable swings. If the clubs in a guy's bag have the spines in different places, they're going to flex slightly differently. Not enough to make much of a difference for an amateur.

However, for guys like Tiger Woods, who spend decades fine tuning their swing to get that last 1% of performance out of it, it's definitely worth it. In other words, the fitter wants to put the spine of the golf club in the same position on all of the clubs in the set, so each one "feels" the same to the golfer.

Obviously, fishermen are also after a repeatable rod cast. However, we tend to not have several of the same type of rod with us. We are not so concerned with each rod casting exactly like the others. The reason for putting the spine of the rod on the back is for strength only. More material on the tension side of the rod equals more strength, and maybe a few more ounces of force you can tug on something in a deep bend before the rod snaps.

Waffle, the spine should have nothing to do with the guides, be they spinning or casting. In my opinion (and that of a guy who has never built a rod, just studied material science), the spine should go on the top of a rod, either way.

[WaffleJaw]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Take a look at golf club shafts, which are also made from carbon fiber graphite. Many golf club fitters offer to "spline" (similar word, same meaning) the shafts for a nominal fee. The goal with golf clubs is to produce repeatable swings. If the clubs in a guy's bag have the spines in different places, they're going to flex slightly differently. Not enough to make much of a difference for an amateur.

However, for guys like Tiger Woods, who spend decades fine tuning their swing to get that last 1% of performance out of it, it's definitely worth it. In other words, the fitter wants to put the spine of the golf club in the same position on all of the clubs in the set, so each one "feels" the same to the golfer.

Obviously, fishermen are also after a repeatable rod cast. However, we tend to not have several of the same type of rod with us. We are not so concerned with each rod casting exactly like the others. The reason for putting the spine of the rod on the back is for strength only. More material on the tension side of the rod equals more strength, and maybe a few more ounces of force you can tug on something in a deep bend before the rod snaps.

Waffle, the spine should have nothing to do with the guides, be they spinning or casting. In my opinion (and that of a guy who has never built a rod, just studied material science), the spine should go on the top of a rod, either way.

But wouldnt the bottom flex radius be a tad bit smaller than the top?..Woulnd't you want the strength to be on bottom with the thicker spine,and allow the top having the thinner,higher flex radius to give more?
It just seems to make more sense to me to have the strength on the bottom for lugging out heavy fish.
I also found that even on spinning rods, builders are still putting the spine on the bottom...You do have a very good point,and it does make me question it,but I still have to go with what veteran builders are doing,since Im still pretty new at all of this,know what I mean?

[TnTom]

I put the bow down only because its quick and reproducible. If it makes any difference or is wrong by golly its consistent

Dale Clemson has written some great stuff (and Tom Kirkman) regarding the issue. Been an issue since rod building got popular.

[BigBassin144]

I've actually heard of some guys not even bothering to find the spline. They claim it isn't important while fishing. I'll still find and use the spline on any rod I build.

As for strength, we all know most rods break (with the exception of carrot stiks, lol) due to fisherman error, not fish. I don't think it matters where the hell the spline is when the car door gets slammed shut on the rod or you roll over while falling down a hill (nofear )

Another thing to think about, with the spiral wrapped guides being such a big topic lately, is where does the spline go if the guides wrap around the blank, and therefore the spline?

BB

[WaffleJaw]

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

I've actually heard of some guys not even bothering to find the spline. They claim it isn't important while fishing. I'll still find and use the spline on any rod I build.

As for strength, we all know most rods break (with the exception of carrot stiks, lol) due to fisherman error, not fish. I don't think it matters where the hell the spline is when the car door gets slammed shut on the rod or you roll over while falling down a hill (nofear )

Another thing to think about, with the spiral wrapped guides being such a big topic lately, is where does the spline go if the guides wrap around the blank, and therefore the spline?

BB

Im still hearing and reading that even on the spiral wrapped rods you still put the spine in the same place as you would of a conventional rod...I talked to my Dad awhile back about it.He use to know a guy that made spiral wraps in the 80's...The guy always placed the spine on the bottom,like all of his builds whether spinning,castng,or spiral..
I even read that some guys use rotating tips for thier spiral rods,lol...

[nofearengineer]

Waffle, I have a little science project for you.

If you can, make yourself some thin, triangular-cross-section strips of wood.

Take a strip of wood and bend it smoothly, with the "point" towards the inside of the bend. Bend it slowly until it breaks.

Take another strip and bend it as before, except bend it with the "point" turned outwards. I will bet you the strips you bend this way will break sooner than the others 90% of the time. (Wood is kind of an unpredictable material...grain and whatnot...carbon fiber is much more consistent.)

You raised the point of stiffness. Yes, with the spine on the top, it will be stiffer, but it will also be stronger, and it will bend less under the same amount of force.

All this aside, BB144 makes a good point. I haven't broken a rod fighting a fish before. They always seem to get snapped in truck doors, underfoot, under elbow...you get the point.

[WaffleJaw]

I pull this from the library at Rodbuilding.org..
I think we were all right

Where should I locate the spine on my rod blank in relation to the guides?

There is no wrong position to locate your blank's spine. Where you do put the guides in relation to the spine, however, will result in certain performance characteristics being either enhanced or reduced.

There are three viable options as to where to locate the spine.

1. Spine on top - This option gives a bit more power on the forward cast but a bit less for line lifting (fly) and fish fighting.

2. Spine on bottom - This position puts the spine into strong play (better tracking) on the forward cast and gives you slightly more power for lifting line off the water (fly). Opponents of this method say this position will lead to rod twist when fighting a fish. This is not true, however, as guide position alone determines rod stability. (More on this topic can be found in the next question.)

3. Disregard spine and locate the rod's stiffest axis so that the fish is pulling against it (A blank's softest and stiffest axis are not necessarily 180 degrees opposite each other). This usually locates the blank's natural bend in such a way that the butt and tip are "up" and the belly of the blank is "down". This puts the maximum amount of power into