Billy L.

[pig n jig]

You votin' or what ? It gonna rain here tomorrow, votes gonna suffer badly, Damned talkin heads gonna look like they know what they talkin about because nobody gonna take the time while it rains ?I'm goin though rain, or shine. P N J

[WTL]

Actually, no, lol. Aint a dime's worth of difference, don't you know that?

I'm for political change through revolution, not democracy.....hehe

[pig n jig]

You mean to tell me I've spent a few hours wasting my time on research, because it ain't going to matter anyway ? I'm still voting. For what its worth.

[WTL]

I think after 5 years studying politics I might have learned something...that I hate politics...

Take the gubernatorial race in the Great state of Alabama.

Candidate A pledges to cut taxes, protect family values, end no bid contracts and not give in to the lottery interests in state.

Candidate B pledges to cut taxes, protect family values, end no bid contracts and not give in to the lottery interests in state.

On those issues, each candidate claims that their competitor would do the opposite (IE raise taxes, have sex with a goat in front of a preschool, let creepy lottery guys with big cigars to build casinos, ect, ect).

1 candidate is a democrat. The other a republican. Of course I know which is which, but they are both running as republicans. Neither will do anything like what they are saying they are for when elected.

Like I said, the Great State of Alabama...because its pretty...and has good fishing...not because of the government.

[pig n jig]

Billy, I voted.I know it may not made a difference, but I just felt the need to vote against Hillary Clinton.Let the chips fall where they may as long as it doesn't interfere with my fishing. P N J

[JB]

pnj, say it anit so!

[Bo Dale James Jr.]

PNJ, it's a double edge sword..You get to vote against the skank.
Yet she was elected there in the first place...What is up with that?

[lizardsrule]

I hope you all voted, I did. If you didn't vote, then you have no right to complain, win or lose. I think the government is screwed up, but you could live in Iran, Iraq, Africa, North Korea or some other place that kill people for voting. I'm glad I have a chance to vote, and I used my right to do so, whether or not I picked winners we won't know till tommorrow. PNJ, I can't believe the New England states and who they put in office. But hey it takes a majority to get them in there, so they get what they asked for roflmao. I meen Kennedy should be in jail, but he just keeps getting re-elected, what else is there to say.

Lizards

[WTL]

If you didn't vote, then you have no right to complain.

Gonna pick on you a bit here Lizards..(uh oh)

OF COURSE I HAVE A RIGHT TO COMPLAIN EVEN IF I DON'T VOTE!

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear-
I will choose Free Will.
Rush - Free Will

Ahem, Rush (which had political beliefs that were somewhere close to my own) says, again...

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

As far as I'm concerned, that nails the topic at hand. By abstaining from the vote, I am still voting...only I am voting essentially for neither candidate...I am voting Yes! for dissatisfaction. Rush was real big on Ayn Rand and her philosophy, and for Ayn Rand the best way to enact change is to revoke one's "sanction" from things they disagree with, even governments. In a way it is a sort of civil disobedience, anybody familiar Atlas Shrugged knows that the productive members of society; scientists, scholars, artists, great businessmen all withdrew from the society which stole their work by coercion. By continuing to work for society, they make it possible for the "looters" to steal every valuable thing they produce. Only by withdrawing completely from the process do they regain control over the machine, for without their sanction, and without their involvement the power of the "looters" disappears.

So, to break it down. . .

My vote is mine. It is my sanction, my approval for both the establishment and a particular person. If I do not feel like I can approve of the establishment or a particular candidate (or any candidate), I may decide to withhold my endorsement from the whole process. In the short term maybe that allows things which I really do not like to happen come to be as opposed to some things which I guess I'm indifferent to, but in the long term it makes my vote, my consent much more important and valuable if I exercise it judiciously.

[zooker]

YAWN!!!

politics are about like watching paint dry first it runs on and on. then when ya just about get the right color it drys to the WRONG shade of color..


zooker

[flfireman]

I voted, even crossed party lines on 1-2 things. I listen to what's being said and make my decision from that. Gotta feel like my voice/vote makes a difference some how.

[Rebbasser]

By abstaining from the vote, I am still voting...only I am voting essentially for neither candidate...I am voting Yes! for dissatisfaction.

I have to disagree with you there, Billy. By not voting you are essentially giving tacit approval to the winning candidate regardless of where they stand.

[WTL]

The legal term is qui tacet consentit - silence implies consent. I don't think it fits here though.

In an election I am given several options, say I can vote for a republican, a democrat, a green party or a libertarian party candidate. Or I can remain silent or abstain from voting. And say that morally, I cannot consent to any of the above candidates or parties. What do I do? I remain silent. And yet then you turn around and claim that whoever wins, even though I did not lend my consent, no, I denied my consent to all, somehow magically garners my consent when they win? After all, your claim is

By not voting you are essentially giving tacit approval to the winning candidate regardless of where they stand.

But I already witheld approval, by not voting! My actions, in this case my silence did not indicate consent, but rather probable disapproval.

Now, I might as well throw this out there cause its a doosey....

When Jesus Christ was tried by Pilate, and did not speak in regards to the accusations that he was a blasphemer, did he give consent to the charge that he spoke blasphemy?

[Rebbasser]

But I already witheld approval, by not voting! My actions, in this case my silence did not indicate consent, but rather probable disapproval.

All not voting did was allow others to decide who will make the decisions that will effect you. Your approval/disapproval is not a factor in the decision making process since your voice(vote) remained silent. And the silence will be taken as consent.

That said, I didn't start following politics until I was a lot older than you are now-Presidential elections were all I voted in. I do understand your point.

When Jesus Christ was tried by Pilate, and did not speak in regards to the accusations that he was a blasphemer, did he give consent to the charge that he spoke blasphemy?

Actually, he did speak. Twice. The first time was when the chief priests asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of God?" to which he answered, "It is as you say" which they said was blasphemy and hauled him before Pilate as a result. The second time was when Pilate asked him if he was the King of the Jews to which he said the same thing. Not a doosey . Interesting philosophical topic, though!

[WTL]

All not voting did was allow others to decide who will make the decisions that will effect you.

Others make decisions that affect me anyways, every day of my life. But to whom do I grant my consent? I say only to those that I have expressed such.

Do the politicians, who look at the low voter turnout, take that phenomena to mean that the non-participants consent to everything they do? Or is it more often said that those who don't vote choose to do so based on their dissatisfaction?

Your approval/disapproval is not a factor in the decision making process since your voice(vote) remained silent.

Actually it very much is. Every year, political strategists try to come up with strategies to tap into new areas of support, often from those who would not otherwise vote. The "get out the vote" campaigns have become essential to a winning strategy. They spend a lot of money a breathe trying to get me to vote. But I wont comply with their wishes until they offer me something more in touch with what I believe in.

And the silence will be taken as consent.

Falsely in many cases. To be honest its a self justification for their use of power. They pretend that I consent.

Regarding Jesus, I went through the gospels again and by the letter of it I guess you are right. While the charge was essentially blasphemy, he did in fact admit to be the Son of God...perhaps one could claim that that statement he made ("It is as you say") indicated his entire defense on the accusation that he was a false prophet, thus meaning technically he was not silent and therefore did not admit to any charges against him of wrongdoing by virtue of that silence.

[Rebbasser]

Quote:
Your approval/disapproval is not a factor in the decision making process since your voice(vote) remained silent.
Actually it very much is. Every year, political strategists try to come up with strategies to tap into new areas of support, often from those who would not otherwise vote. The "get out the vote" campaigns have become essential to a winning strategy. They spend a lot of money a breathe trying to get me to vote. But I wont comply with their wishes until they offer me something more in touch with what I believe in.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. What I am referring to is not the actual voting process but the decisions that are made by the candidates that get elected.

Vote, don't vote-you have the right to do either in this great country.

Let me put it this way: Not too long ago the Iraqi people risked death-DEATH-just to vote in what for most was probably the first free election of their lives. I figure if they are willing to risk death to vote I can sure spend a little time out of my day to go vote, even if there isn't a "perfect" candidate .

[WTL]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. What I am referring to is not the actual voting process but the decisions that are made by the candidates that get elected.

I think you didn't understand what I am saying, cause I understood your point. By not voting, or refusing to vote in a certain election (but not refusing to vote in any election), you make yourself and your views something that the politicians will target next time. Say in my case, I want to complelty change social security...privatize the whole darn thing...and right now its a 3rd rail. How does some politician get me to vote for them? Well, they are going to have to promise to actually do that! If I give my vote away cheaply, I will be treated cheaply.

BTW, they voted in Iran too...and for whom? Democracy without a real choice....we arent that bad at all, but just cause elections are being held doesn't mean you can choose.

[zooker]

notice how brother love is quoting the bible. maybe we should call him father love..lol

zooker

[JB]

zooker, you amaze me at times, "brother love" does have a ring to it

[WTL]

I for one would like to know the source of my wealth.....or have wealth...or something that seems like wealth...cause last I check I was broke...

[Rebbasser]

Democracy without a real choice....we aren't that bad at all, but just cause elections are being held doesn't mean you can choose.

That's where we differ. You don't like the candidates so you don't vote-I can understand that. If I don't like the candidates I'll still vote-often for the lesser of two evils, but I still vote. To me voting is a privilege, but it is also a responsibility.

...cause last I check I was broke...

Been there and done that, Brother Love !

[WTL]

If you keep voting for the lesser of two evils, you will keep putting evil men in office. Nice.

[Rebbasser]

Figure of speech-I figured even a bama graduate would understand that-guess not






















































Just kidding, amigo!

[WTL]

Look at some of the people that are elected.

Is it a figure of speech?

[lizardsrule]

You can always write in your vote for whomever you want WTL I do understand some of that glossary of info you posted. But I think if you don't vote, you are allowing others to take complete control. Write in Rush Limbaugh if you want him for office, but not voting allows the majority of those who DID vote to never know who you want in office, so the poiliticians will assume it's them. I vote for anyone I think will try to make changes, not that they alone can, but at least I believe they will try. You are the political major, so I won't get into a battle of terminolgy with you. We are gonna just have to agree to disagree on this one. If you want your voice heard, then stand up and speak. Don't sit there and quietly believe people will read your mind.

Lizards