Gas Prices

[bamabassman]

did ya'll hear where odama is "thinking" about cutting loose our reserves? he is just thinking about it now. ain't done it yet.

[nofearengineer]

Listen guys...those of you in hurricane alley know for a fact what I say is true.

Every time there's a big storm coming, people rush out to the grocery store and buy up all of the eggs, bread, and milk. (I guess they must really like french toast, huh?) Get to the store late, and the shelves are bare.

Well, it's exactly the same with the middle-men in the petroleum trade. When there's a major screw up like Libya going on, the guys who are down for a regular million barrels a week, all of a sudden think they might have to pay more for that million barrels next week. Or worse yet, they might not be able to buy any at all. So they rush to the "store" to get the makings for their french toast.

And in doing so, they are part of a self-fulfilling action, in which they raise the prices on the oil themselves. Yeah, we get hosed, because we're just the end consumer, and despite what many on the left would have you believe, demand is mostly inflexible. Even though I drive a gas guzzler, with about 300 more horsepower than I really need, I only drive about 150 miles a week on average. (I probably burn less gas than the average eco-freak does driving to their Greenpeace and PETA rallies.) No matter how high gas prices go, I'm not going to drive much less than that.

As far as Obama opening up the strategic oil reserves, that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. In other words, I totally expected it of him. Those reserves are there to make up for lost production, as in after Katrina hit, or in the event of an embargo against the U.S...not because the price has gotten a bit inconvenient.

Yes, the oil companies are in bed with government...they've been getting shaken down for over 150 years by the politicians. The U.S. government makes more money off of a barrel of oil than the oil companies do.

[XIntel007]

NoFear and Doc are on the money. Oil is traded on the commodities market making it highly volitile. Fear=Price increase rather than demand=price increase. I grew up in Midland Texas. When oil goes through the roof, Midland booms. I like it for dad, he could use the business, hate it for my diesel prices here in VA at 3.79. I bought my diesel when diesel was going for $4.80 a gallon so I still feel ok but it hurts. The sad part for me is, I can ride the bus but when diesel was $4.80 a gallon the price of the bus and metro equalled the price of driving my truck 66 miles a day. If it goes to $5.00 I am putting the diesel on a propane diet.

[bamabassman]

i agree bryce and doc. we have enough oil in THIS country to fulfill our needs. but............well........like ya'll said......politics and corperates............

[Bubba_Bruiser]

You know its bad when they remove the price from the sign and don't bother putting it up for a few days because it is changing so fast.

[nofearengineer]

I found some interesting information I wanted to share with you. Seriously, when you hear the good old "greedy oil companies" nonsense start up, come back to this chart and look hard at it to see who is actually greedy.

Figure 1. Oil Industry Taxes Have Outpaced Oil Industry Profits Since 1977.



Source: Bureau of Economic Analysis, U.S. Energy Information Administration.

via http://www.taxfoundation.org/publica...show/1168.html

As you can see, the government is the one who is raking in all of the money on oil, not the oil companies. What's worse, the government has no investment of capital in those profits...they're just milking the system, and then turning the wrath of the indignant population on the oil companies whenever there is an economic downturn and prices get high.

Sheesh....I get a lump in my stomach just talking about this. It's like beating my head against a brick wall.

[doc]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

I found some interesting information I wanted to share with you. Seriously, when you hear the good old "greedy oil companies" nonsense start up, come back to this chart and look hard at it to see who is actually greedy.

Figure 1. Oil Industry Taxes Have Outpaced Oil Industry Profits Since 1977.



Source: Bureau of Economic Analysis, U.S. Energy Information Administration.

via http://www.taxfoundation.org/publica...show/1168.html

As you can see, the government is the one who is raking in all of the money on oil, not the oil companies. What's worse, the government has no investment of capital in those profits...they're just milking the system, and then turning the wrath of the indignant population on the oil companies whenever there is an economic downturn and prices get high.

Sheesh....I get a lump in my stomach just talking about this. It's like beating my head against a brick wall.

Hard for me to believe that the government is the only one raking in the profits, when big oil posts record profits, I havn't seen the data yet, but am going on history. I bet a dollar to a doughnut that when this quarters profits are posted big oil will have set a record, only second to 2008 when gas prices were sooooo high. I agree that the government is just as guilty as big oil, but we should not let them off the hook. I've said it for a long time but every politician in office should be fired, term limits imposed on senators, and we need a mass exit of the big 2 political parties, remove republicans and democrats alike from office. viva la revolution!!

[nofearengineer]

Of course "big oil" sets a record for profits every year. Just like every year you get a raise, you just made "record profits." Inflation makes all prices go up, but the media doesn't hold up other industries as villains for "record bakery profits" or "record pencil profits." Oil profits go up 5% with inflation, and the media trumpets it from every parapet about how the oil companies are gouging us.

The oil companies are a convenient straw man for the government to throw us to chew on. As you can see from the graph above, the government makes 4-10 times the profit off of oil the oil companies do.

I'm with you on all of the "throw the bums out" stuff though. The U.S. Senate is a joke. It may be the most corrupt institution on the planet, with the House of Representatives nipping its heels. I like the Tea Party if for nothing more than it's a thorn in the side of the established parties. They haven't figured out how to completely manipulate it for their own purposes yet.

[doc]

Thats an interesting graph, I would like to see it up to date, what it looked like for the full term of the Bush Administration, and now that change has came (lol). Just to see how taxes compare thru multiple administrations.

[nofearengineer]

Yeah, unfortunately the article was written in 2005. I'd love to see what has happened in the last few years as well.

[WTL]

People have a right to speculate. If you think oil is gonna go up, if Libya makes you nervous, call the stock broker and try and hedge. There is nothing evil about that. I don't even think its a good way to make money, cause its so volatile. Its a way to protect oneself in a business that uses lots of oil. If you are worried about the fishing season, and you want to lock in at the current gas prices, well, as far as I understand the best way to do so would be to buy oil now. That way as it goes up at the pump, so too it goes up in your portfolio.

Speculators get burned all the time too, gotta remember that as well. Gaddafi could take a bullet to the head any day and price will drop 15 dollars a barrel. Thats the uncertainty at play, it goes both ways.

[doc]

Originally Posted by WTL

People have a right to speculate. If you think oil is gonna go up, if Libya makes you nervous, call the stock broker and try and hedge. There is nothing evil about that. I don't even think its a good way to make money, cause its so volatile. Its a way to protect oneself in a business that uses lots of oil. If you are worried about the fishing season, and you want to lock in at the current gas prices, well, as far as I understand the best way to do so would be to buy oil now. That way as it goes up at the pump, so too it goes up in your portfolio.

Speculators get burned all the time too, gotta remember that as well. Gaddafi could take a bullet to the head any day and price will drop 15 dollars a barrel. Thats the uncertainty at play, it goes both ways.

If he takes a bullet I think prices will go up more, do to regime uncertainty. You should not be able to drive prices up or down over fear of what might happen.

[bamabassman]

well in my un-knowing way of thinking. we need to go back to using coal for a lot of our industries. we have enough coal to last us for probably a thousand years. then there is nuclear power, which we have hardly tapped into. if you go back to see what hitler did during ww2, they used coal to run war. IF i remember right. then we would see oil prices drop alot i think.

[MallenManson]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Of course "big oil" sets a record for profits every year. Just like every year you get a raise, you just made "record profits." Inflation makes all prices go up, but the media doesn't hold up other industries as villains for "record bakery profits" or "record pencil profits." Oil profits go up 5% with inflation, and the media trumpets it from every parapet about how the oil companies are gouging us.

The oil companies are a convenient straw man for the government to throw us to chew on. As you can see from the graph above, the government makes 4-10 times the profit off of oil the oil companies do.

I'm with you on all of the "throw the bums out" stuff though. The U.S. Senate is a joke. It may be the most corrupt institution on the planet, with the House of Representatives nipping its heels. I like the Tea Party if for nothing more than it's a thorn in the side of the established parties. They haven't figured out how to completely manipulate it for their own purposes yet.

Ehhhhh....we haven't gotten any raises in our company for almost 2 years now. And record profits? Not around here haha. Due to the terrible economy, my last 4 yearly earnings are the 4 lowest since 95.
And all this while spending well over 3 bucks a gallon to drive to work.

Anyway, I could care less whose fault the prices are. Who's at fault only means something, if someone else is gonna fix it.
Doesn't matter which hillbilly was gonna get Ned Beatty first. He was still gonna squeal like a pig.

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WTL]

Originally Posted by doc

If he takes a bullet I think prices will go up more, do to regime uncertainty. You should not be able to drive prices up or down over fear of what might happen.

Sure you should. Its what we do with any other commodity. Why do you think gold is up? People are skeered of inflation. Milk goes up when talk of footnmouth disease is in the news. It is smart, rational behavior which assigns the proper value to commodities.

And just how are we going to prevent speculation of an internationally traded good? Just saying it shouldn't be allowed is not the same as proposing a law that will prevent it, and especially considering US law is only good in the US, there is no way to get around the fact that speculation is going to occur.

[doc]

Originally Posted by WTL

Sure you should. Its what we do with any other commodity. Why do you think gold is up? People are skeered of inflation. Milk goes up when talk of footnmouth disease is in the news. It is smart, rational behavior which assigns the proper value to commodities.

And just how are we going to prevent speculation of an internationally traded good? Just saying it shouldn't be allowed is not the same as proposing a law that will prevent it, and especially considering US law is only good in the US, there is no way to get around the fact that speculation is going to occur.

Your completely right, what is being done to us is in the intrest of fair trade. Who cares if it destroyes the economy, breaks the backs of the hard working american, or if it's just plain WRONG. Who cares if only 1% of our population benefits from it, it's the 1% that really matters anyway. Who cares if the U.S. has the influence to do something yet refuses because big oil and our politicians are in bed together. Who cares if gas goes up another dollar or two at the pump over speculation I can afford it.

These companies, and our politicians continue to DO this to us because we as a people allow it, we allow them to GOUGE the prices, we allow them to destroy our country (by destroying the economy.). We allow the top 1% of Americans, big oil, and our politians to completely feed us bullchit, while making us poorer, and them richer. Best of all, not only do we allow it, some of us defend them.

I'm from the old school where you call a spade a spade, and a crook a crook. No matter what type of bullchit it's wrapped in, or under what cloak it hides. Driving up prices over nothing is wrong.

[nofearengineer]

Doc,

Instead of the term "speculator", let's use "investor".

Gas would not get to the pumps without investors. Then how screwed would the "other 99%" be? If the middle man is not there, petroleum doesn't get produced or refined. Want to order up 20 gallons of gasoline and wait for it to be drilled, transported, refined, transported again, etc.? Oh, by the way, that'll be $1000 per gallon please. Those investors take all the risks, by buying millions of barrels at a time, and that is why they deserve profits. The consumer doesn't invest or take any risk. The consumer just consumes.

The sad, but unpopular reality, is that the majority of "hard-working Americans" are just victims of their own inability/unwillingness to better their situation each and every day. It's natural human behavior, and certainly not a sin, to grow content with one's station in life. However, being a passenger and not a driver, has its risks. Sometimes the bus goes where you don't want it to go, and you're stuck along for the ride.

Back to gas.

Gas could definitely get to the pumps without passing through the gauntlet of government outstretched palms. Stop voting in a certain group (you know who...not going to get overly political here), and it will lessen, even if it doesn't stop entirely...they are all politicians, after all.

I sort of resent the veiled insinuation that I, and people like me, are somehow dupes of the oil industry for trying to slow down the hysteria freight train that gets rolling each time oil acts like every other commodity subject to the laws of supply and demand.

[doc]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Doc,

Instead of the term "speculator", let's use "investor".

Gas would not get to the pumps without investors. Then how screwed would the "other 99%" be? If the middle man is not there, petroleum doesn't get produced or refined.



The sad, but unpopular reality, is that the majority of "hard-working Americans" are just victims of their own inability/unwillingness to better their situation each and every day. It's natural human behavior, and certainly not a sin, to grow content with one's station in life. However, being a passenger and not a driver, has its risks. Sometimes the bus goes where you don't want it to go, and you're stuck along for the ride.

Back to gas.

Gas could definitely get to the pumps without passing through the gauntlet of government outstretched palms. Stop voting in a certain group (you know who...not going to get overly political here), and it will lessen, even if it doesn't stop entirely...they are all politicians, after all.

I sort of resent the veiled insinuation that I, and people like me, are somehow dupes of the oil industry for trying to slow down the hysteria freight train that gets rolling each time oil acts like every other commodity subject to the laws of supply and demand.

Oil is subject to the speculated supply and demand. Like I said I'm no economist, my brain works pretty simple on things like this. If supply is down and demand is up then prices should go up according to demand. In my opinion prices should not go up or down on what we think might could happen to supply if the sky falls. I understand that thats not how it works, or probably never will. I really wasn't trying to say anyone in particular was a dupe of the industry (IMO we all are), rather just get my point across that we will have to put up with this crap, and accept it until the majority of people see it as a problem. Sometimes my words don't come across the way I want them too, and these are just my opinions.

As soon as the weather warms a little more, I'll be dusting off my 250 hoda and riding it as much as I can, saving my gas money for when I have a boat behind the truck.

[Captmikestarrett]

All this doom and gloom is bad for your fishing..

You all sound like Glum from Gulivers Travels....

"We'll never make it ...Were doomed"

I personnally am gonna start having my customers row for a while.

Capt Mike

[bamabassman]

hahahahaha capt. now what aobut a discount for the rowers? and is there more of a discount if they bring their on oar? lol.