Remove or remain.

[kennethdaysale]

Like many of you guys I have long been a proud and vocal proponent of catch and release. I was indoctrinated into this school of thought back in the late 70's when Ray Scott was the Pied Piper. It all seemed to make so much sense to me. If I release that fish it will get bigger and continue to breed and I might catch it again later. It looked like the classic win-win scenario. Not to mention the fact that it made me feel good, I was somehow angelic, benevelant, gracious, wise, a good steward, gentle, conservative maybe even a candidate for sainthood. I mean who wouldn't want to be all those things?

Fast forward many many years and I was still holding on to the catch and release mindset (just like many sr. fisheries mgrs around the country) even though it was no longer relevant or effective in many fisheries. Of course every aquatic ecosystem should be looked at and evaluated based on its current state of balance. Some lakes will still benefit from 100% catch and release while others would see huge improvements if every fish caught(or a slot) was removed for a while.

I suppose what I'm saying is that if you wear your catch and release beliefs on your sleeve like some sort of religious dogma that you hold dear just because it sounds good and wise, you may want to reevaluate that position.. You may well find out that in your situation and in the waters you fish it is still the best way to go. Then again you may not. Just dropping a fish back in the water to feel good about yourself or to honor some mental contract you have with yourself or because that's how you've always done it, may not really be the best thing for the fish or you.

If you are releasing fish because of some feeling that the life of that specific individual fish that you are releasing has some sort of sacred intrinsic value then this post is probably not meant for you, but consider a couple of analogies. Your a horse lover. It takes one acre of pasture to keep one adult horse healthy. You have five acres of pasture but you love horses so much you keep ten horses out there...where's the love or wisdom in owning 10 skinny sad horses. ......or...You and your wife earn enough money to support 2 children but you've got 4 and she's pregnant again. Both are indefensible results of honorable intentions.

I know this subject has been discussed before, but of all the things we could talk about here, this topic should be more near and dear to all our hearts than which hook to use etc.

[joedog]

I wish I had a 'halo' but I don't. Just a hunch but, probably never will.
I do believe in the sanctity of life, but even TOO MUCH life can be as big or an even bigger problem as opposed to the perfect match. I'm a believer in 'eat what you catch or let it live till somepone else is hungry'. I am a true believer in 'selective harvest'!

Bottom line is...I release because alot of times after a long day fishing, I'm just to lazy to go home and clean fish. Also I live alone and also love fish (to eat), but living alone , I can popper fish for sunnies in the spring and catch enough for the summer. I've never eatten a bass of any kind just purly because sunnies taste great to me. When I dream of a perfect fish dinner, it's sunnies, not cod or bass or trout or any other. Crappies are good but still not sunnies.
But I do only use a popper with a greenish brown body with a hint of purple with white streaks along the sides and a red hook. Prefer white or yellow tassels with a mixture of rabbit and bucktail mixed in!
Just messing! If it pops, it's enough for me!

[kennethdaysale]

Well Joe as a True Believer in selective harvest, how does that fit into your habit of releasing EVERY bass you catch, other than the fact that you've decided they don't taste good without ever tasting one? Is there more sanctity in the life of the bass your too lazy to clean than the life of the little sunnies you relish? I didn't really start this thread to open a discussion about the relative food values of dif fish, rather to get the staunch supporters of catch and release to weigh in with why.

[bassboogieman]

I practice catch & release. I've only kept a couple in the last decade, ate them and found I don't particularly like black bass as table fare. Others like it, and I don't care if others keep their catch to eat. With that said, taking large fish steams me a bit, nothing wrong with culling the lake population, but it's the fish at the lower limit of legal size that should be taken, not the 5 pound and heavier fish. Those are usually females and the lake's primary breeding stock. Keep those 2 - 3 pounders not the big sows. I like catching bass, it's a days relaxation for me to go fishing and be on the water, but I'm not a meat fisherman out to feed myself or my family from a lake's bounty and I don't chastise those that do keep a few.

[joedog]

Originally Posted by kennethdaysale

Well Joe as a True Believer in selective harvest, how does that fit into your habit of releasing EVERY bass you catch, other than the fact that you've decided they don't taste good without ever tasting one? Is there more sanctity in the life of the bass your too lazy to clean than the life of the little sunnies you relish? I didn't really start this thread to open a discussion about the relative food values of dif fish, rather to get the staunch supporters of catch and release to weigh in with why.

Just to explain. I've eaten many many kinds of fish and will again. I was just trying to share what I do and I thought. I thought the 'no halo' was a tip off that I wasn't proud of my actions and in my heart I believe as I think you do. But that doesn't mean I'm going to keep a sucker that ate my worm while fishing for something else. I do and will practice SELECTIVE harvest, I'm just SELECTING to harvest panfish. I can't do it all alone. Someone else can do thier part too and select bass or catfish or whatever.
I don't think your suggesting I harvest just for the sake of harvesting are you. If I'm not going to eat it, know of no one who wants them, I let them live.
I don't know whats right, thats just what I do.

[Mumpy]

Over the past 25+ years or so I've been very big on Catch and Release. Until recently when I've started helping manage the owner of the company I work for his newly built Lake. The same guy that helps manage Jeff Foxworthy's lake is helping us with ours.

To make this short, I'll say you're right about we need to harvest some of these smaller Bass to help the water we fish in, support the larger Bass, but there is a couple of points I want to make.

First, we do harvest Bass out of our Lake but we don't harvest just any Bass. Every year a certain number of pounds of Fish needs to be harvested. We have a Length and Weight Scale that the fish need to fall UNDER to be considered a fish we need to Harvest. For Example, a 14" Bass that weigh's less than 1.5 LBS we harvest, from 1.6 to 1.7 it's your call. 14" and is equal to or greater than 2LB then it's released.

On top of this, here is another thing to think about. When you catch that 14" 1.5LB Bass, you have caught an Aggressive Bass, one that is competing for Food with the Larger Bass. It's better to Harvest that fish than to release him. The reason I say this, is every year we have to take out a certain number of pounds of Fish in this lake. Each year the Number gets larger and larger that we have to harvest. It gets to a point where it's a pain in the butt. So you ask yourself, let's just Shock them and harvest the ones that don't match the Length & Weight. When you do it this way, you have no way of knowing if you took out the Aggressive Bass.

The Below Picture is a Bass that is 28 Months old. That Bass was 2 inches long 28 Months ago. This is the result of Proper management. Everything is provided to these Bass. When we stocked the lake with everything, just to give you an example, we put 500 lbs of Crayfish with them. 200lbs went directly into the lake and 300lbs of Crayfish went in the Duck Pond next to (across the dirt trail) the lake.

[Tavery5]

I practice catch and release on both Black Bass and Small Mouth, there are a variety of others that I do keep and eat.
I have never given any deep thought to my catch and release practice of bass, I just know that it makes my fishing experience more enjoyable. I hold no Ill will to those who choose to keep a few bass to eat, but try to encourage the release of the bigger females.
There are many people that fish our local lakes that keep every fish they catch, so I figure it just about evens itself out.

[wallywallace]

i beliieve its what ever, i have seen people full of stringers of bass, past the limit, it kinda irks me, i love about every fish in water on my plate, but i am to lazy and hardly catch enough for a meal... now what really pisses me off is seeing some people haul in big 10 lb plus catfish and put em on the bank to die, then not take em home, i have been on boat trps in Santee and seen people catch 50+ fish and take em home to eat, and from what i hear from my SC buddies, Santee has truely gone down in big cats, though not bass but my feelings on fish

[Mumpy]

I know recently the Fishing Reports for Lake Eufaula are trying to get people to keep those 14 - 16" Bass they catch. I know I love me some dang Deep Fried Bass Filet's!

[kennethdaysale]

Hey Mumpy.....thanks for the post...that's exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping we could have. If Greg Grimes is the owner of the mgmt co yall are working with you have struck gold ! He's considered by many to be the best in the SE.
The only little question is regarding the need to take out those aggressive bass. I don't think that is one of Gregs recommended mgmt tools. Of course as I said every lake is different and every owners goals aren't identical, but the genetic propensity for aggression (catchability) is a very desirable trait. Like you said that competitive nature means they get more than their share of food, and by the same token get fat quick (see your pic)and provide anglers with a higher # of strikes per hour. The gene for "hard to catch" or spooky or shy or whatever you want to call it is something you don't want passed down. I mean what good is a pond full of 10-15 lb fish if after 7-10 generations of selective harvest the only way to see them is when they die and go belly up? I actually think your idea of electroshocking would yield better results? I don't know..maybe not...but probably. If you ask Matt or Greg why not shock? I'd love to hear their response.

[Mumpy]

The response I was given was, you could certainly shock to get the numbers you need out but catching through out the year was preferred. An Undersized Aggressive Bass is a good thing to take out. An Aggressive Bass that is over the length / weight scale is one we want to keep.

[Jrob78]

I release every bass I catch, have for years. It's more about not wanting to mess with cleaning them than anything. I do fish some small bodies of water that are not stocked by the state, I think these places need to be protected. I also know of other places that are over populated and should be selectively harvested. My dad keeps a lot of the bass he catches and I don't have any problem with it. I do believe that big bass should always be released. Bottom line, for me, the body of water and the size of the fish are what should determine catch and release.

[bassinbob]

I haven't kept a bass since I was 12 years old. Boy was he tasty. Like Joe I hate cleaning them. No matter what the body of water i believe proper management is the best for good fishing.

[basstech]

I do release a vast majority of bass I catch. Can't remember the last time I kept one, but in no way have I ever been a staunch %100 believer that every bass caught should be released. I don't particularly care for fish as table fare, and when I do want to eat some, I'm very particular about the water it comes out of. To me, good eating size bass is 12" to 14" long and I haven't fished anyplace where you can keep them in that size range. So I eat crappie instead.

[keithdog]

I grew up in a home with 2 parents and 5 siblings. We were also poor. Not "dirt" poor, but it was always a struggle for mom and dad financially. My mom grew up in a house that was "dirt poor". The only meat and fish her family ate were what Grandpa shot or caught. Needless to say, in the house I grew up in, you ate what you caught. It was a necessity. My father in law was a big time Lake Michigan fisherman. He was after salmon and trout and did very well. He too kept all he could catch. And they ate a lot of fish. Today, things are different now. At the age of 52, I've learned a few things along the way. And while finances are still a challenge, I do practice catch and release, but I also keep a few from time to time. My wife would prefer that I bring home bass everey time I catch any. However, after explaining things to her over the years, she understands what I choose to do as far as keeping bass to eat. Some days, despite how well I do, I release them all. But if I know my family will all be home that day or in the next couple days, I will keep just enough to provide a nice meal for everyone. That is probably one out of every three trips out. And I only keep bass in the 2-3 pound range. I don't have any scientific study to go by. I just feel anything bigger is going to be a good egg producer and gentetically strong. But I do know there are families out there that are like when I was a kid, and I have no problem with their dad putting food on the table. Lifes necessities for his family and so it should be. I see a lot of guys throwing their catch back in now days, and most of the folks keeping their catch are pan fisherman. I think that as good stewards of the gifts God has given us, we need to respect those gifts, and do what we can to preserve them. Keep a few from time to time if you wish and release most of what you catch. Thats how I see it.

[Dogmatic]

I am a C & R fisherman, but believe in sound management like was discussed,(PA has "Big Bass Waters", where no fish can be legally kept unless it's over 15", never made sense to me?). Keep fish on occasion, mostly "by-catch", trout, or when fishing with the kids, but like basstech said, I'm not confident in the quality of the water. My brother has a pond, and I keep telling him he needs to get some management advice, mostly from what I have read on this site, he has a major problem with undersized bass, but refuses to selective harvest, claims that's what the snappers are for.

[kennethdaysale]

There is no right or wrong in anyones position on C&R, and much like voting, how much impact can one mans actions have?
@dog...try to help your brother to understand that there are only two ways to solve his stunting problem #1 remove a bunch of bass or #2 spend wads of money dumping minnows or shiners or crawfish in his pond to eat. #1 is way more fun and cheaper.

[joedog]

I don't know if this applies but a lake I fish has a one bass 18 inch limits in place and have had same since draining and restocking like 15 years ago (posted about it in a carp thread). They also have a 3 fish 18 in. walleye limit.
The lake is loaded with large fish. This is in Wi. and today I stopped at a Cabelas an hour and a half or better into Illinois and talking to a rep., he said he fishes the lake min. of once usually twice a week. Boat ramp lot is filled with Ill. fishers. So the lake has a draw even with a $15 ramp charge. They turn easily better than a hundred boats a day in summer months. So does catch and release even done to the extreme necessarily guarantee stunted growth, I don't know.
Have another friend who made his own pond. Talking flat field was the starting point. Dug the pond, put in structure ect. Has two retired DNR wardens who manage it. (Guys got WAY to much money). Anyway, he paid a fortune for his stock fish and some fairly knowledgable folks running the show. Now this project is in it's like tenth year. He doesn't really fish the pond as much as you would think due to he has a house on the Missiissippi Rv. and family has like four side by side homes on another public lake. Size of fish are 14-18 in. but in my eyes he needs to harvest and he doesn't. I feel the pond will kill itself off or bear min. stump the stock.
I think if you have a non public water your fishing, then it is solely up to you. Public water is a little more difficult to control or have an individual effect.

[kennethdaysale]

Joe...........managing a lake can be as simple or as complicated as you make it. In the case of Lake # 1 you don't have to rely on angler harvest to keep things straight. Ex-guys that manage for giant bluegill always establish a good population of LMB in their ponds, but you know what they are called? bluegill management devises! Those bass are 24/7 bluegill eating machines......the gills that survive that 1st year have very little competition for food and get huge. Down here in the south guys that manage for trophy bass (especially private) often stock some Hybrid Striped Bass, which do exactly what the lmb do in the gill ponds.....constantly swim around thinning the herd and allowing maximum growth of the target species. Anyway I'm guessing your lake with the 18" limit has some toothy predators in it that are just a little more apex than the LMB..............or the managers shock and remove tons of 8-12" bass periodically..........or the lake is not very fertile and just doesn't get much recruitment every year...............or.............
*relative side note* Several years ago I gained access to a 300 acre private lake in the SC lowcountry. While talking to the owner/mgr I was told that I was to release 100% of everything. At the end of a 7 hour day my 5 biggest fish weighed 38lbs !!!! Probably caught 10 over 5 etc etc . I later found out that rather than allowing a bunch of angling pressure or spending his precious time shocking out or catching out dinks, he had placed hundreds of BIG Blue Cats from Santee in there to do the daily duties.

Just out of curiosity how many acres is the lake that can hold 100 summertime boats?

[Mumpy]

@ Kenneth - You're spot on with the Hybrids. Greg had us stock those as well.

[joedog]

Ken, if you click the ' - ' button twice and three lakes pop into picture. All three have same limits and all three have big fish
Geneva has state record Brown trout. Delavan is looking to break state Musky record. Como is not nearly as good due to size and very little public access.
I fish all three but mostly Delavan. Map shows two ramps but only one is public access.


http://www.lake-link.com/Wisconsin-L...nty-Wisconsin/

Next one shows just Delavan. Plus a review. This link tells alot when stocked, what stocked ect. Check reviews, ALOT of IL. reviews. They come as far as from Chicago for opening day and all year.

http://www.lake-link.com/Wisconsin-L...nty-Wisconsin/

J. Grocholski from Franklin, Wisconsin

"Fishing receives a 4. Panfishing is excellent starting in June through September, but then the lake shuts down when the tempurature drops. The only thing bad about this lake is the boat traffic. If it wasn't for the good fishing this lake would receive a 2 from me. If you are a hardcore fisher than get on the water around sunrise or shortly after and get off by 11:00am because then the pleasure boaters come out and open up full throttle and cruise within 50 feet from where people are fishing. That's what I call a lack of consideration. On a good day you will catch your Panfish limit before 10:30am."

Someone showed or helped with seeing airial view but I can't remember how or who. Else I'd show the parking lot. They actually have a person on weekends that does nothing but direct trucks and trailers to a spot to park. The highway to the ramp past 11 oclock will have 10 plus rigged vehicles waiting for a lot opening. Remember, alot of these folks travel a ways. Some go to Geneva after not finding lot spot but most hang and wait.

[WatterBoy]

Originally Posted by joedog

Ken, if you click the ' - ' button twice and three lakes pop into picture. All three have same limits and all three have big fish
Geneva has state record Brown trout. Delavan is looking to break state Musky record. Como is not nearly as good due to size and very little public access.
I fish all three but mostly Delavan. Map shows two ramps but only one is public access.


http://www.lake-link.com/Wisconsin-L...nty-Wisconsin/

Next one shows just Delavan. Plus a review. This link tells alot when stocked, what stocked ect. Check reviews, ALOT of IL. reviews. They come as far as from Chicago for opening day and all year.

http://www.lake-link.com/Wisconsin-L...nty-Wisconsin/

J. Grocholski from Franklin, Wisconsin

"Fishing receives a 4. Panfishing is excellent starting in June through September, but then the lake shuts down when the tempurature drops. The only thing bad about this lake is the boat traffic. If it wasn't for the good fishing this lake would receive a 2 from me. If you are a hardcore fisher than get on the water around sunrise or shortly after and get off by 11:00am because then the pleasure boaters come out and open up full throttle and cruise within 50 feet from where people are fishing. That's what I call a lack of consideration. On a good day you will catch your Panfish limit before 10:30am."

Someone showed or helped with seeing airial view but I can't remember how or who. Else I'd show the parking lot. They actually have a person on weekends that does nothing but direct trucks and trailers to a spot to park. The highway to the ramp past 11 oclock will have 10 plus rigged vehicles waiting for a lot opening. Remember, alot of these folks travel a ways. Some go to Geneva after not finding lot spot but most hang and wait.

Joe, are you talking about something other than just clicking on the "satellite" option in the upper RH corner of the map? Or is that maybe what you're after?

[joedog]

Ya Watterboy thats exactly right.
Wow...I just amazed myself with my lack of smarts and common sense.
Watterboy if your done LAUGHING at me, THANKS.

Wow, how do I make it out of my house on my on?
Thanks Watterboy! I know everyone else would of found it on thier own but not ME.

[WatterBoy]

Originally Posted by joedog

Ya Watterboy thats exactly right.
Wow...I just amazed myself with my lack of smarts and common sense.
Watterboy if your done LAUGHING at me, THANKS.

Wow, how do I make it out of my house on my on?
Thanks Watterboy! I know everyone else would of found it on thier own but not ME.

No laughing at all here, and you're welcome. Just glad I could help in some little way!

[IowaBasser]

I can't rememeber the last largemouth I kept. We do eat most of the walleye we catch unless we only catch a couple and don't want to mess with cleaning them. 2 years ago we ate a nice stringer of mixed walleye and smallmouth from a small spring-fed cold-water river and they were absolutely delicious!

10 years ago I got access to fish a private farm pond in Missouri that was loaded with big bass and big crappie. The owner said I could keep a couple bass if I wanted to eat them, but insisted that I either kept every blue-gill and crappie or threw them on the bank. I never kept a bass. I kept most of the crappies and threw the bluegills on the bank. It was somewhat sad to throw fish on the bank - but this pond rarely got fished and it was his way to manange the pond. It seemed to work!

(P.S. The bass in my avatar came out of that farm pond and was released... I wan't able to measure or weigh it. I'm 6-2, 250 pounds and make most fish look small in pictures. I'm guessing that fish was around 5 pounds.)