slow to plane

[JimmyDon]

I recently bought a 93 basscat pantera II, had it checked out by a mechanic and was told it was a sound rig, however I noticed it to be very slow to get on plane, I wasnt really aware of issue until I rode on buddy's boat, was a huge difference compared to mine, nose of boat rasises way high and cannot see over even when standing, boat just boggs down for awhile and slowly gets on plane, took to a basscat dealer and they noticed that previous owner had replaced VRO fuel pump with an electronic fuel pump, and claim they cannot hook up for diagnostics until I get it back to OEM specs which requires the VRO fuel pump back on, about $500, they seem to believe this is part of problem. I would hate to shell out the $500 and it not fix the prob, any ideas guys? Here are some important specs:
-19ft
-93 200hp johnson venom GT
-appox 30 gal fuel
-4 blade stainless prop 13 3/4 24 pitch
-25 lbs of gear
-me 160lbs
-new plugs and ignition coils
-compression good

[cassidyta]

Jimmy,

I don't mean to speak as though you haven't had a boat before, but I don't know, so here goes the first attempt.
How is your trim? I know that a buddy of mine was having a heck of a time getting on plane until he learned the "sweet spot"

[MississippiBoy]

I'm going start from the basics like cassidy did. If I go to far back, please don't feel insulted...I just don't know where to start, so I'm going back to the basics.
There's a trade-off between getting up on plane quickly and running blazing fast at WOT (Wide Open Throttle). You can't have a boat that will rocket out of the hole and run 80 mph on the top end, in a bass boat, anyway. So with that in mind, what's the top end, as measured by a GPS, once you do get on plane, trimmed out, wide open? Also need to know your RPM's at that speed, too.
Typically, you should be somewhere around 5500-6000 RPM at WOT. I'm not sure about your motor, you probably should find a manual online and see if it will tell you exactly. Also, trim the motor down all the way when you takeoff, and wait until you're up on plane to trim up to hit the sweet spot.
It could be the fuel pump, I guess, but see what your top RPM is and we'll go from there.

[Bender]

One of my friends has a Pantera II that was also slow to get up, not as bad as you are describing though. I know he did a lot of messing around with props and vent plugs to get where he is now which he says is still not great. I'll ask him if he has tried anything else recently. His does have a Merc 200 EFI though and is an early 2000s boat.

[lilmule]

Proper prop,sometimes with vents,proper motor height setup for your boat,hydrofoil generally helps.
Some take more to get up than others,generally its true high speed not as good low end but not always.I run a 200 venom on a 2002 allison at pad level and it pops on plane in a heart beat,also have electronic fuel pump,vro pumps dont work well at higher speeds above 60 mph,and are rather costly.
A heavier boat I had was like a 50 yard dash to get up,22 ft long and hefty,the whale tail or hyfrofoil helped,along with a bit of seat time to figgure a trim trick out,once nosed up if eq with a foot throttle a quick off then on will drop the nose and then trim up and it poped up,havnt a clue why that worked on that boat but it did.
Shifting any weight that can be moved forward also helps,often a jackplate does,and definately a whale tail,they are out of the water on plane and dont drag or slow the boat down.My allison 200 venom also has a whale tail and does over 80 easily,with a 27 p tro4,but then again its designed like a rocket.
Before I spent $ 500 on a vro pump id spend 60 bucks or less on a whale tail,then experimant a bit with speed and trim.
And if current prop is a raker get something with a tad more cup.Possibly even a 4 blade as better hole shot,consider a renegade 23 or 25p,rpm for a 25 p will be about 200-300 lower than current prop,about the same for a 23 p.

[TN_Bassin]

I think Mule is on the right track. Unless the pump just isnt getting enough fuel into the motor, I believe it is a prop problem, and as Mule also suggested a hydrofoil could go a long way. I'd try throwin a 3 blader on there and see if that helps any.

But also i might mention that i have a cousin that has a 91??? stratos 201 ss with that exact motor on it with the same problem, and he's been trying different props with different blades and pitches without success. And no mechanic has been able to successfully diagnose the issue in the motor (if there is one).

[JimmyDon]

This is my first boat, so all info is good, I have had the trim all the way down and given all trottle until boat gets up, then raise trim some until it rides smooth, I bought an SE Sport 300 Stabilizer but have not yet put on, will put on, and I'm gonnna time the plane time and see what WOT rpm's are and see what top speed is, will get back with all info soon, thanks (Wonder if this boat and motor is bad combo for plane)

[lilmule]

Some brands,more some models due to hull shape design etc,just dont pop up well,some designers even adding things like hull stablizers on the boat, to correct a lacking design.This is not to say it doesnt do other things quite well but in the boating world all things effect something else somewhat.
That stabalizer foil added to the motor,will keep the nose down somewhat and have it pop up a tad sooner,but bear in mind some just dont do it as fast as others.
Again a prop with more grip like a 4 blade of some good brand,but even a raker or shooter grip fairly well if reworked by a prop man.(additional cup,venting)Something like a manual jackplate would also make a difference as sets the weight of the motor farther back,making it all longer as well.
Experiment with the trim as some boats dont want it deep and tucked quite all the way in.
Seat time then and you will have it popping up a lot quicker.
That venom with its 1.86 gear ratio surely would pop it up quicker than say a merc with a 1.75 ratio,so not the motor possibly boat design ,prop,setup,and driver input it all adds into the factor.

[Captmikestarrett]

This sounds like a bad prop.. try a three blade.

Find a prop shop and have them test a few..

Your rig sounds like a buddy of mines. He went to a chop prop on a PII and that was the ticket. It provided slip to get rpm up and bite once up on plane. WOT was 62 mph on GPS.

It scared him so much he sold it after hitting a big wake.

[Abbeysdad]

whoa...before going to a prop shot, lets get back to and play with the trim just a bit.
The basic rule is that you trim down all the way and throttle up all the way until she comes up on plane. But I find that mine will plane quicker if I'm trimmed up just a bit and then as I throttle up and the speed is coming up, I trim up slightly - looking ahead to ensure that the bow stays down (meaning if the bow pops up, yer trimming up too fast).
I have a fat boat with a 90hp OB....by comparison, yours should fly!

[jwm2201]

I had the same problem when I put the new motor on my boat, the boat is rated for a 135hp motor but I put a 150hp on it. Seemed like it ran for 50-60 feet with the bow pointing straigt up in the air. I added a jack plate and a Hydrofoil from Bass pro Shops and it really made the difference in it's performance. If you need, e-mail me back and I will look up the spec's on what I added to my boat, I can't remember off the top of my head.

[JimmyDon]

finally got out on water, stabilizer fin helped alot, now planes in half the time about 5 sec, think a 3 blade Raker could improve, WOT 60 mph @ 4700 RPM, it is on low side, did also notice that at end of WOT, boat hesitates or surges, uncertain if electronic fuel pump is culprit, I will replace the primer bulb hose, I read that a guy had same prob and replaced hose fixed issue

[lilmule]

Doubt if its the four blade more like current prop on it,not enough cup and yes going to a raker may even improve it as well as add rpms.
In general a four blade is better for low end and popping up than say a 3,the exception being a 4 blade shooter,but even they when reworked and drilled (vented)pop up nicely.
Both the raker and shooter are old school props lacking additional cup,that are on more modern designs yet work well on many boats as is.
Glad the whale tail helped they generally do.
Whatever brand that 4 blade is its still a backup prop if needed.
A good dose of carbon guard added to the fuel will not only clean the carbon off but make it run better as well.
About 64 mph is a good ballpark figgure for a quite used setup.
The vro pump is also a gas pump,(mechanical pump)which tends to go out gas side first,electric fuel pumps need no bulb?
Built just like one in a car,run on electric,no primer bulb needed.I have an electric fuel pump on mine,as a result never ever have to prime.

[JimmyDon]

Thanks for all help guys I feel I can live with what I got for a awhile, lilmule what kind of electronic fuel pump are u running? anything special? not sure what specs mine is? You feel Renagade is better than Raker for pop up? I have a Stiletto 4 blade stainless 24 pitch, not sure model, no vents

[lilmule]

My own experience with renegades with gt and xp motors wasnt real good,however it is the prop most dealers place on boats when they come in for resale.
Be willing to bet a 24 p raker will do nicely on it,can be had used off ebay for 125 or less. and spin a few hundred more rpm.
As for the electric fuel pump same people who make the auto one just a marine grade-example BOSH.
An inline filter marine grade available at either auto parts stores or where you buy your marine parts will also help trap moisture and contaminants,cost is cheap empty every so often it just goes in the gas line with two clamps 6-13 dollars.
Me id just replace the hose for now,if vro goes out then replace with a fuel pump cheaper,even the boat mfg makes a gas pump mechanical to replace the vro pump,one does however have to manually mix oil.
The gt itself is a fairly old motor they do last a long time,1000 hrs I put on my 150 85 model,but its not a racehorse and its tired.Treat it like your best friend,take it easy somewhat on the throttle,do regular maintenance,like water impellor every two-three years.
In short the guy that has a wheel fall off his trailer is one who doesnt check it very often.Same goes for the boat and motor,ive ridden with guys they get 15 miles from the ramp and it beeps and shuts down then say it did this yesterday.One hadnt added oil in a millinium to his auto oil tank if empty does not work,other one hadnt changed the impellor ever as just 5 years old.
Many of the GT models dont even have an oil alarm,just an overheat one.
It wont pass many of the newer motors but if taken care of will outlast many of them (already has)as its a low compression engine,comparitively.
Oh and a stilletto is what merc people put on say a 90 hp on a hefty boat(cruiser),less pitch though,so not exactly a good bb prop.Your omc can use many props from other mfg providing spline and shaft size is the same.