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Old 07-16-15, 09:51 AM   #1
mikechell
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Default Pluto

Fantastic accomplishment ... Pluto flyby. They say it will take the New Horizon craft a year to send back all the information it collected during the transit.
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Old 07-16-15, 10:22 AM   #2
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I don't know if those extremely expensive programs are worth the knowledge gained. Certainly it is a "wow, look what we did" kind of thing but it took nine years and 700 million bucks and what did we get? It satisified some scientific curiosity sure but will it improve life on earth? The time is upon us where this country needs to better budget its resources, spending $700M to satisify a couple thousand in the scientific community while 300 million people in the USA read the headline and say wow and forget about it the next day is a complete waste of money. There is some serious brain power at NASA and I think it could be put to better use than planning deep space missions. Like maybe how to avoid the next large asteroid headed towards earth impact and the mass extinctions it will cause, including our own. Bruce Willis won't be around to save the planet, so we better have a plan.
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Old 07-16-15, 11:37 AM   #3
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Like maybe how to avoid the next large asteroid headed towards earth impact and the mass extinctions it will cause, including our own.
That is precisely the point of a lot of deep space projects. With current technology, we cannot change the course of an asteroid big enough to cause an E.L.E.
The information gleaned from the New Horizons mission helps NASA understand a little more about the Solar System. If we can't stop an asteroid, then we better be able to set up self sustaining colonies on other planets or moons. This will, possibly, allow the Human Race to repopulate the Earth after the worst effects of the E.L.E have passed.

Alternatively, if we didn't spend so much on entitlement programs ... and helping enemies like Iran kill us ... we'd have more than enough to spend on space exploration.

MOST of the best technological advances of the last 60 years has been a direct result of space exploration.
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Old 07-16-15, 02:38 PM   #4
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So who gets to go to the off planet colonies to avoid extinction? Will there be a lottery or something? Do USA elites, like the Kardashians, get all the first class seats. Or maybe all sports stars so we get the best of the gene pool for the repopulation of earth, because we don't want to repopulate the planet with Kardashians. Is NASA developing a space ark? lt will be every rich American for themself and a bloodbath on the launchpad. Reality is, if it is comming there is no stopping an extinction event.

It is no doubt that many new technologies have evolved from space exploration, but projects like the Huble, moonwalking and deep space exploration have had little impact on quality of life for the billions of humans that exist on this little sphere in the vastness of the universe. I could live without cell phones, satellite TV or radio, even (Yes OMG) GPS and the internet. Many of the human race don't have them and some have no clue what they are. Truely, developed countries have "benifited", Third World people not so much... then again who cares about them.

Pointing to the extreme waste of money dumped into various entitlement programs, foreign aid, and playing softball rather than hardball wih our enemies is no justification of the billions dumped into the space programs. Waste is waste regardless of the program and it is all bad with the exception that it all keeps bureaucrats employed and where would we be without them?

Lunch time... now where did I put that jar of TANG?
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Old 07-16-15, 07:36 PM   #5
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Well, everybody sees "waste" where they want. The old adage comes to mind, "One man's trash is another man's treasure."
So, because very few people can discuss politics or religion without getting personally indignant and upset, I'll drop that part of the conversation.
Regardless of the cost spent over a decade ago, the fact that we are getting detailed information from a tiny space craft almost 32 AU (2,971,350,000 miles) from Earth, is nothing short of amazing.
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Old 07-17-15, 11:58 PM   #6
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I really have no answers to the value or waste of NASA research.
But a site that is kind of interesting,

http://list25.com/25-coolest-nasa-di...ged-your-life/

Another,

http://spinoff.nasa.gov/spinfaq.htm

Go to Spinoff Data Base. Click

Under 'Topic Search' Put in FISHING.

Hit Search now tab.

Actually put anything in Topic Search.
Like a business you were/are involved in.

Thinks like Xrays, Food sterilization, water purification, even freeze dried foods.
Blood pressure monitors, heart monitors, those devices for elderly folk who live alone to get help fast all had their start with NASA.
Machine lubricants were greatly improved by NASA research.
Goretex is another.
Polarized Sunglasses.
Scratch-Resistant Sunglass Coating .

Not sure but I think braided line development got it's start from NASA.

Now is taking pictures of Pluto going to affect our lives....probably not.

But the neat thing about science is it teaches people to actually use their minds and think for themselves and not just rely it to others.
A lot of things were accidentally discovered by scientific research.
Looking for some solution to something else and through trial and error, discover something else.

Again, we can thank NASA for a lot, but is pictures of Pluto, one of them.
Only you can decide.

But if the seeing pics of Pluto awakens one younger generation mind to enter the world of science and discoveries and experimentation.....it maybe worth the investment.
Not directly for us maybe but certainly our future generations and almost ALL of us have a close concern for that.

Oh another great site,

http://er.jsc.nasa.gov/seh/spinoff.html

Oh and in ending....GORE discovered the internet, not NASA.
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Old 07-20-15, 06:44 PM   #7
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The reality is that most of our technological gains come not from the space program. They come from war. Radar, nuclear technology, interstate highways, the computer, etc. So yes, let's start some more wars...I want a better cell phone.
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Old 07-20-15, 10:11 PM   #8
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The reality is that most of our technological gains come not from the space program. They come from war. Radar, nuclear technology, interstate highways, the computer, etc. So yes, let's start some more wars...I want a better cell phone.
Blah blah blah blah blah ... Most of the gains you speak of did NOT come from war ... they were invented before and then perverted for war. Military acquisition of technology does not mean it "came from" war.
The fact remains ... Exploration, whether it's into the depths of space, oceans, human minds and bodies or whatever, increases man's ability to make life different. Some people use it to destroy, some use it to build. It will never be inexpensive, but it is ALWAYS money well spent.
You want to use it for "humanitarian" purposes ... but most of those would be impossible if not for the advances derived from exploration.
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Old 08-01-15, 09:01 AM   #9
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Regardless if invented in part prior and perfected later during war more unfortunately were in existence due to war and yes science also had a hand.It is an incentive to perfect an atomic bomb prior to your enemy,even though invented prior via a reaction.Reaction and controlled reaction being two different things still end in the same sum of.
One of the few war time total inventions was by hirum maxim who invented it(maxim gun) to save lives.
You said it yourself doubtfull if taking oics of pluto would effect our lives,yet the aspect of an Iran having a nuke shurely does.There fore $ are sent more on war or avoidance than true scientific adventures.
At a local level check out how much is put aside for academic versus the football team at your local university.Its shocking its also the $,yet would be better spent making future contributions via acomplishments via academic versus jock.
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Old 08-01-15, 10:05 AM   #10
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I am not sure what point you are trying to make ... but your reference to Hiram Maxim is misplaced.
This is an alleged quote from Maxim, speaking of a conversation he had ... "He said, 'If you want to make a pile of money, invent something that will enable these Europeans to cut each others' throats with greater facility.'"
And so he set about inventing the machine gun. It was invented, not to save peoples lives, but to do just what it does ... fire rounds more rapidly than a human can do manually.
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Old 08-01-15, 11:28 PM   #11
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Old 08-01-15, 11:32 PM   #12
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Nothing gets their attention like a Claymore ... both the sword and the mine.
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Old 08-07-15, 09:55 AM   #13
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Now there's a whole new reason for space exploration. We need to figure out how to fly 1500 light years through space. I want to build my next home on Kepler 452B.
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Old 08-07-15, 09:59 PM   #14
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Old 08-31-15, 05:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikechell View Post
Blah blah blah blah blah ... Most of the gains you speak of did NOT come from war ... they were invented before and then perverted for war. Military acquisition of technology does not mean it "came from" war.
The fact remains ... Exploration, whether it's into the depths of space, oceans, human minds and bodies or whatever, increases man's ability to make life different. Some people use it to destroy, some use it to build. It will never be inexpensive, but it is ALWAYS money well spent.
You want to use it for "humanitarian" purposes ... but most of those would be impossible if not for the advances derived from exploration.
I notice that while attempting to mock me, you failed to even try to refute me. Radar was developed for detecting incoming enemy aircraft. We wouldn't have nuclear power plants except the military wanted them built (and popularized) so that Plutonium, a weaponizable by-product would be produced. The Innerstate Highway System was built as a reaction to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. The modern computer was first built as a means of calculating projectile trajectories. These are irrefutable facts...just like...you being a pussy.
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Old 09-01-15, 09:35 AM   #16
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Radar was developed for detecting incoming enemy aircraft.
As early as 1886, German physicist Heinrich Hertz showed that radio waves could be reflected from solid objects. In 1895, Alexander Popov, a physics instructor at the Imperial Russian Navy school in Kronstadt, developed an apparatus using a coherer tube for detecting distant lightning strikes. The next year, he added a spark-gap transmitter. In 1897, while testing this equipment for communicating between two ships in the Baltic Sea, he took note of an interference beat caused by the passage of a third vessel. In his report, Popov wrote that this phenomenon might be used for detecting objects, but he did nothing more with this observation.[3]
"The German inventor Christian Hülsmeyer was the first to use radio waves to detect "the presence of distant metallic objects". In 1904 he demonstrated the feasibility of detecting a ship in dense fog, but not its distance from the transmitter.[4] He obtained a patent[5] for his detection device in April 1904 and later a patent[6] for a related amendment for estimating the distance to the ship. He also got a British patent on September 23, 1904[7] for a full radar system, that he called a telemobiloscope."
Nothing to do with "enemy aircraft". Oh, maybe they used it to detect the Wright Brother's first flight!

We wouldn't have nuclear power plants except the military
"In 1953 President Eisenhower proposed his "Atoms for Peace" program, which reoriented significant research effort towards electricity generation and set the course for civil nuclear energy development in the USA."
Conspiracy theorist beg to differ!

Interstate Highway System was built as a reaction to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
"The primary justifications for the Interstate System were civilian in nature. In the midst of the Cold War, the Department of Defense supported the Interstate System and Congress added the words "and Defense" to its official name in 1956 ("National System of Interstate and Defense Highways"). However, the program was so popular for its civilian benefits that the legislation would have passed even if defense had not been a factor."

Consider yourself refuted.
These are irrefutable facts...just like...you being a pussy.
The last refuge of a small mind ... name calling.
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Old 09-01-15, 12:42 PM   #17
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"RADAR was developed for detecting incomming enemy aircraft"

As most everyone knows I love debate, so my input here is offered.

preface. From Webster: develop - to advance, to futher, to perfect, to make to increase, to promote the growth of.

1. Statement says "developed" not invented which is true. Many countries in the late 30's & 40's were working with RADAR for the detection of aircraft and ships. WWII accelerated the developement of RADAR for that purpose.

2. Developement of RADAR continued after WWII leading to uses in astronomy (late 50's), microwave (cooking), and weather forcasting as the power of RADAR was enhanced (aka developed).

3. As with most "debate" some sides do not read and strictly rebut a position of the opposition but intead misinterpret and twist a response to support their argument.
In this case development was changed to invented which, of course, was not the original context of the statement.

4. I only offer my opinion because, as I said, I love debate but become annoyed when opposing sides offer argument in support of their possition out of context. It is the main reason I abstain from watching the political "debates" come election time. Actually debate is such a misnomer for those televised lie fests - there is no "I" in debate (sorry theft of the team thing).

5. Both sides have factual information supporting their position but the rebuttal to the developement statement was not in context and if I was moderating I would have to discount it.

6. Twisting what is said in opposing statements turns debate into argument. Whether it be an intentional tactic or unintentional error it has no place in debate. Debate is good and often enlightening, argument, not so much.

Not wanting to bore anyone any further, I will not address atomic energy (other than I think NFE has a stronger position) or interstate highways (I think Mike has this one), if anyone cares.
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Old 09-01-15, 12:54 PM   #18
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Ah the good old days
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Old 09-01-15, 02:08 PM   #19
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Ah the good old days


By the way...I do have to love being called out for "name calling"...after my post is summarized as "blah blah blah blah blah". Kind of takes the sting out of being accused of huddling in the refuge of small-mindedness.
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Old 09-01-15, 02:32 PM   #20
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there is nothing small about you NFE, well from what I have seen anyway and I have only seen what is normally acceptable in public and in mixed company - just so there is no unnessary conjecture or speculation on exactly what I meant. . Oh, also the mental picture of you huddling leads to fits of uncontrollable laughter.
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Old 09-01-15, 09:36 PM   #21
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While I will admit that wartime developments have improved many technologies ... I have to argue that "war" is the reason for modern day technological levels.
My side of the debate: Science exploration, regardless of the discipline, is responsible for the technology we have, not "war".
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Old 09-01-15, 11:29 PM   #22
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Without question an advancement in a war derived technology can be developed/expanded by scientific adaptations and vice versa.

As an example, Germany during WWII developed rocket and jet engines. Without which the space exploration of the 60's would have most likely been delayed at least a decade.

War (whether offensive or defensive) has spawned new inventions since the first two cave men battled over a dead bison and one figured out that attaching a stone to a stick was more effective than just a stick for killing game or other cave men so they could steal their females. Science driven advancements came a bit later.

War also can drive science, like the Manhattan Project, in discovery of new technolgy. I can't think of a single case where science drives war - that's probably a good thing. Which has contributed more (or better) to human inventiveness is debatable and no I don't want to start a list...

There is one important factor in which scientific driven technoligies far exceed those of war driven, and that involves the side effects. The side effects of war are devistating, science not so much.

I'm done, my head hurts from all this thought. Good night.

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Old 09-02-15, 05:12 PM   #23
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A large budget, motivated by the fear of being obliterated by the enemy is what fuels most scientific innovations.

And the PC-required denouncement of any silver lining to the horrors of war gives the baby seal huggers free license to equate any argument I have with "at least Hitler made the trains run on time".

Hell...every hot rodder out there who has ever burned a piston owes the scientists of the Luftwaffe for their work on nitrous oxide systems for the high alititude fighters of the day.
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Old 09-03-15, 12:11 AM   #24
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Okay, so no one likes photos of Pluto. But this morning's launch was exceptionally beautiful.
The track went into the sun's light and lit up the exhaust.
When the solid rockets ejected and the first liquid stage fired up, the exhaust spread out. When the second stage took over, the final gasp of stage one was a neat ring spreading out from the center.
The final image is the exhaust refracting "rainbows".
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Old 09-03-15, 07:21 AM   #25
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nice photos thanks for sharing
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