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Old 10-17-08, 08:52 AM   #101
jcw1503
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First off i would like to say welcome rangerdad...and that was a good introduction....this is a good fishing site...and its for people with difference of opinions to come together about fishing....as this discussions show...there are alot of different people on this site...and we discuss our opinions here....and then when it turns to fishing topics in other discussions, then we talk about that...one thing for sure here is that we all love fishing...and when we talk about fishing then everyone is on the discussion talking about fishing...this is a great website....you get a lot of fishing information with all different kinds of people and thats great..... and again welcome...

AS for Jim, yours quote....The long and short of the argument ya'll are having is simply finished by saying Obama sucks , McCain sucks but not as much as Obama....

I rather agree with that to an extint....Do i think McCain is the best overall for the president job...NO...but i beleive he is better than McCain......

And again to put out there....it is not because he is black...I have said it before there are a lot of black politicians that i believe would do a better job than McCain.....


ANd fl, God does not hate gays, he does not like the way they live there life...And even though he says its wrong, he does not hate them..God does not hate anyone....ANd also, just because I don't agree with there choice, does not mean i am going to go out there and be mean to them....they are human beings....and i will treat them like human beings....i know gays and you can ask them...i treat them like everyone else, and they know my opinion on the matter, but we do not treat each other different....


ANd more on Jim, i don't agree with some of th things said but there is a lot i agree with you on....first, off i would like to say that i did not think that Clinton did a great job with the economy, that is what is said on tv for arguments and around....also, i think the congress situation is screwed up too like you said...

and that I am not saying Bush was great or perfect, i do believe to that we should of went to war, however, it could of been handled in a different way,,and also that we are to far into the war just to pull out, it will cause even bigger problems...


Dang blacks and jews and Muslims are ruining our country," there is no way i would ever agree with this statement...again i am not going to act different to you because of your religion or beliefs, color, sex, or any other reason however, that does not mean i would vote for you for president....again everyone i repeat everyone votes off of there personal beliefs....and what influences your personal beliefs...your religious or non-religious beliefs....

OK....TGIFT...Thank goodness its Fishing tomorrow!!!!
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Old 10-17-08, 11:26 AM   #102
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obama isnt full black he is half black and a musiulm
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Old 10-17-08, 11:30 AM   #103
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There's something very strange going on in the polls, I'm not convinced that any of them are accurate...Rasmussen may be the exception to the rule here, but I was at the Palin rally yesterday here in Maine and it was packed!! They estimate almost 6,000 were in attendance, that's outstanding considering the population of bangor is around 30,000. It was absolutely electrifying...I think it's sad that in today's local paper http://www.bangornews.com/detail/91295.html that they downplayed her performance with interviews of Obama supporters and how they "felt" about Palin being here...give me a break, do you think they would interview republicans if obama showed his face here...No Way!
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Old 10-17-08, 11:31 AM   #104
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BS, Obama is not a muslim. No muslim who really believed would deny it as he has.

The Polls are likely pretty accurate. They could be wrong, but those guys are in business. It pays to be accurate.

I'm not sure why everyone is supporting McCain anyways. Its not like he is conservative.
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Old 10-17-08, 11:39 AM   #105
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he may not full muslim now but muslim is part of his past....
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Old 10-17-08, 11:42 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTL View Post
I'm not sure why everyone is supporting McCain anyways. Its not like he is conservative.
Who is a conservative anymore? It seems to me like they are a dying breed....which is extremely concerning
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Old 10-17-08, 12:01 PM   #107
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JCW, that is garbage. Pure garbage. He once lived in a country that had a lot of muslims in it, but he wasnt one of them.


The guy isn't qualified and you all are spinning your wheels talking about how he is a muslim. That wouldnt even be important if it were true, but its not. Why not talk about what is really an issue here? He isn't qualified, he has only been a senator for a couple years in which his only remarkable trait was to vote present on any controversial bill. Or talk about how he will raise taxes. The Joe the plumber stuff has actually resonated among independents, not the false muslim allegations. The ayers stuff is weak too.
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Old 10-17-08, 12:40 PM   #108
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I have talked abuot him not being qualified, and only in there for a few years...i said that....however, if any of his relatives were muslim, which they were, then it is part of his past...thats what i said...i said it is part of his past....whether parents, grandparents, or great grandparents, muslim is part of his past.....
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Old 10-17-08, 12:44 PM   #109
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Obama’s middle name is Hussein which is a Muslim name. Since his stepfather was an Indonesian Muslim, it is natural for the son to adopt the religion of the father (especially in Islam). Adopting something from your father does not mean you have to believe in it. However, in Islam it is not the case. If at any time in one’s life were to ever be a Muslim - you are a Muslim.....

So yes it is part of his past....
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Old 10-17-08, 12:44 PM   #110
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Who the hell cares if he had a muslim in his family? Is that a scandal?

This is ridiculous. So what if his father was muslim. We arent voting for him. His father was a drunk too. He deserted his wife. Shows how devout he was.
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Old 10-17-08, 12:46 PM   #111
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my quote from the statement that you told me it was garbage purew garbage....and I quote...."he may not full muslim now but muslim is part of his past.... "
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Old 10-17-08, 12:55 PM   #112
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I took that to mean that he was at one point in his life a muslim.

Not that his father was a muslim. And if your fther is something, doesnt mean it is really part of your past. My pop was in Vietnam, but really, Vietnam is not part of my past.


But that gets away from the big issue I have with saying he is muslim or like a muslim or its part of his past.

When you are smearing the other guy, you only get a few shots. If they are weak smears, you will hurt yourself and people will tune you out when you come up with something legit.

The Obama is muslim thing is a weak smear. So is the ayers thing.

Should have stuck A)Inexperience, B)Joe the Plumber, C)Obama is stuck up and not like you. Those 3 would have hurt him.

Instead it is Obama who has painted McCain into a corner. McCain is according to Obama 4 more years of Bush, he is old, and he is negative.

Wanna know what this means?

Obama is gonna win.
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Old 10-17-08, 01:23 PM   #113
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Well, how can you say that your fathers religion or non-religion does not influence how you are rasied....and how you are raised is part of your past....

And with the Ayers...yes they were associates, this is true you can not deny that...however, other than donations from him and a group they served on for a few years, and the fact that they meet in Ayers house for meetings....and they were pretty much neighbors, thats it...there is not anything else at this time....


And if anyone is paying attention..like others have recently said, yes he does contradict his ideas...and also that he does not give enough insight of how he plans to implent his plans....

also, the reason the muslim and ayers thing has blown into what it is....i am just saying why, not saying this is what i think...but the citizens see see 9/11 muslims...and yes let me tell everyone that not all muslims are like that....i just want to make that clear...most muslims are good people.....some our not just like every kind of different type of person....anyways the see 911 as the muslims and muslim is part of Obama's past....and then a known terriosts who made his statement on 911 is associates with Obama....thus these two things seperate would not get any attention....however, since they combined, it gets a lot of attention....


Also, i watched the debates...and it seems like the only argument he had this last debate and mostly throughout his compain is that McCain is Bush, and if you take a look his plans are alot different than Bush's...
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Old 10-17-08, 01:30 PM   #114
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Quote:
how can you say that your fathers religion or non-religion does not influence how you are rasied....and how you are raised is part of your past....
He was abandoned by his father at a young age. His father had very little to do with his upbringing.

I also dislike the Muslim thing people keep hitting on because there is a subtle hint that Muslims are terrorists. There is an unfair association there.

I'm not saying the ayers thing is good or bad, I am saying it is a loser of an issue for McCain to keep bringing up. Obama did a good job of addressing it and making it a non-issue in the debates. McCain needs, as I said, to focus on the big things.

But thats the problem, he can't focus. His campaign has not had a consistent message. You arent gonna win when you do that.

Quote:
the only argument he had this last debate and mostly throughout his compain is that McCain is Bush
--Exactly. And that type of thing works.
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Old 10-17-08, 01:47 PM   #115
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It's gotta be hard for McCain to focus at his age , I've come to the point where even though i dislike Obama and don't believe that McCain is the right choice , I do believe that McCain is better suited for the job as far as dealing with the rest of the world . How do you think Obama will handle Iraq, North Korea, or Iran if a problem would arise ? And it is unfortunate that we should have to factor that into our thoughts as a voter but it is none the less a fact of life at this point in time . And while McCain may not be proposing the answers to all our problems I would rather he did nothing than to implement Obamas plans which would only serve to worsen the strain on our fragile economy . There are currently more factors at work than any one person or president can fix in a four year term . And more so if you were a nation that held a grudge against the US how would you feel about testing a president with no real experience in the running of a country

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Old 10-17-08, 01:50 PM   #116
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Yeah your right his father did abandon, but his stepfather was muslim too...also, yeah i agree that it is not good because it gives all Muslims a bad name and thats not true....and so many people are blinded by him being very Charismatic and yeah he is a very good speaker....

His campaign has not had a consistent message. WHos? McCain has had the same ideas that he explains and that don't contradict with the others...however, Obama has been the most inconsistant on his plans...and very contradicting... and you are right he needs to stop bringing it up over and over...what he needs to bring up is Obama's economic plan, his health care, which we still don't know how he is going to pay for it, our military and how he plans to cut spending and not send more troops but also win the war and keep them alive who is already over there......OH yeah....I love how he believes that he can make it a nuclear free world...he says he will hold off on production of nuclear weapons for us and talk to the other countries and get them to do the same....not making that up, i heard him say it....
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Old 10-17-08, 01:57 PM   #117
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Jim, what that boils down to the the whole lesser of two evils argument.

There is no good way around this. McCain is a terrible choice for President. Obama is even worse. Obama is going to win. So what now?

Well, we make the best of it. Try and suport your Republican congressmen so they can fight Obama in the house and senate. Then hopefully in 2 years we can take back part of congress. But you are gonna have to deal with the problem at hand, I have already pretty much conceded the Presidential election - lets work to reorganize the GOP on terms that we agree with and live to fight again in 2 years.


I'm now discussing this with 2 different people. JCW: McCain has not had a consistent message. He might have been consistent on certain policies, but that is not a large scale message. This is like advertising. He needed a slogan of why to vote for him and why not to vote for the other guy. Obama's slogan for himself:change. For McCain: 4 more years of the same.

But what is McCain's overwhelming slogan? For either himself or Obama? If its more than 2 sentences, then its too long.
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Old 10-17-08, 02:10 PM   #118
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I took it as saying abou the policies.....misunderstanding at that end....yes it is the lesser of two evils...but its not looking good....Obama is still leading in the polls, and unless a miracle happens or the surveys are wrong then it does not look good....


McCain had consistent policies but not a consistent or catchy slogan......and Obama reversed....he had inconsistant policies but a very consistant slogan that is seeming to work.....YOu are right we are going to have to try to get congress now, but i am still hoping for a miralce.....


Also, if Obama does happen to get into the white House and does decided to put a hold on our nuclear weapon and then decideds to try a talk about a nuclear free world, which he said he can do, somehow, all he said was he would talk to them, then we all better start praying because are weapon intelligence and how much nuclear we can make is a big reason we are not being bombed.....
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Old 10-17-08, 02:14 PM   #119
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I won't disagree with you on the lesser of two evils and I know that we face two terrible choices , but I feel McCains main problem is he is given the people of America to much credit to be able to make a educated choice and see through the smoke and mirrors campaign that Obama is running . I have pretty much conceded the election as well with the thought it is what it is .

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Old 10-17-08, 02:20 PM   #120
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Dont forget Obama is also the Anti-Christ. Just read any conservative republican e-mail. The man is is a Muslem terrorist, sent to infultrate our goverment from the inside and cause disharmony upon the earth.
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Old 10-17-08, 02:24 PM   #121
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Doc, I read on another board the other day that Obama should be shot for being an american traiter and a communist. I then pointed out that shooting someone cause of their political beliefs was the sort of thing a communist does....
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Old 10-17-08, 02:24 PM   #122
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yeah Jim, i believe he is giving the american people too much credit, just because he can see through the smoke and a few others can, not everyone grasp concepts the same he should straight up ask Obama during the debates, so how much is it going to caost, numbers of dollars, how does this work with that...he should of asked specific questions, but its too late....
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Old 10-17-08, 02:30 PM   #123
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The American people right now are wishin in one hand and ****tin in the other. They have lost the connection to what America was, its become a country that always just existed to them. I hear people all the time say "the economy will rebound...always does"


Well, it rebounds because we had a capitalistic economy where bad investments were liqiudated naturally. But if you take that away, it wont just come back. And our liberty wont just come back either. Men fought and died for what we are now giving away.


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I hope on this board that maybe we are starting a new consensus that you can take with you when you discuss politics with your family and friends in real life. What we need to do is shake up the GOP from the roots to the very top branches. The GOP is and has been the traditional party of small government, but when it stopped being that, all this bad stuff started happening. If we work to reinvigorate the party and create a new Republican revolution (like Reagan did in 1980) then we can take this country back. But wishing in one hand and defecating in the other isn't gonna turn this trick.
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Old 10-17-08, 02:32 PM   #124
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Don't be a VICTOM of a shooting before the bullet has even been fired. It may end up that way. But on election say i still plan to cast my ballot & hope for a miracle. Maybe i won't win the fight. But atleast i'll still have the spine to say i tried. McCain is the lesser of the 2. You said that your selves. He is know Ron Paul yes that i agree. We have to fight to the very end. Only cowards give up. So stay there till the end atleast trying.
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Old 10-17-08, 02:34 PM   #125
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I said it earlier and i will say it again.....let's hope for a Miracle...I will be there when the polls open, and McCain will get one vote from me....
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