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Old 07-12-12, 08:01 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Dogmatic View Post
For Christians(and presumably Creationist), much of what has been said sounds awfully like Ayn Rand's social darwinism...how ironic.

Government is doing a pretty lousy job stealing our wealth, considering revenue is down, and the top 1% have had 30 years of triple digit growth in wealth.
In my field, I hear quite a bit of conversation that boils down to class hatred. The "1%" dislikes the "99%" or visa-versa. From a pure tax perspective, there are a few figures that I go to. And by the way, you can take these to the bank. They are sound and if you were to write it down I would sign it

1. In 2009, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 36.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 16.9 percent of adjusted gross income

2. The top-earning 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI equal to or greater than $154,643), however, still paid far more than the bottom 95 percent. The top 5 percent earned 31.7 percent of the nation's adjusted gross income, but paid approximately 58.7 percent of federal individual income taxes.

3. In 2009, over 50% of people either did not pay taxes or had refunds in excess of any of the taxes they owed for the year.
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Old 07-12-12, 08:22 PM   #77
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Who makes up that "50%" that paid no taxes in '09? Might want to make sure, before you call them "slackers" or "moochers" of the Government teet. But all of this is nonsense, you're talking "taxes", how about wealth?

Here are some numbers you can take to the bank, if you still trust them with your $

Over the last 30 yrs the top 1% has had a 281% increase in income, while the rest of us have had a mere 16%-25% growth.
The top 1% control 43% of all financial wealth, the next 4%, 29%, the bottom 90% only 19%!

So your point about who pays taxes...your right, we should have a more equitable tax code, that top 1% should pay more.
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Old 07-12-12, 08:29 PM   #78
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I don't believe that I called the slackers or moochers. I am one of them, Dogmatic.
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Old 07-12-12, 08:39 PM   #79
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Like I said in previous posts, I don't "hate" the top 1%, I don't begrudge them their wealth, no matter how they got it. I hate a system that has been bought by the wealth that the 1% have, and have used to manipulate the system for their own personal gain, rather than that of the common good, to the detriment of our nation.
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Old 07-12-12, 08:57 PM   #80
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Well, doc...if you can figure out a way to eliminate the ones who really need it from those who don't, I'll back you all the way.

Good luck with that. God knows it's never been tried before.

If (when) you can't...do I deserve higher tax rates? 50%? 60%? More?
Only if we could put that tax on douchebags, I think you might fit into that bracket.

I'm sorry about your kid. That really sucks. I hope I never have to face something like that. But does your misfortune give you the right to take my money against my will?
Well I have to say, I usually say I wouldn't wish that on anyone but in your case I hope you do end up having first had experience. I have been in Childrens Hospitals seen the kids with Cancer, Burns, CP, Brain Injuries, etc.... You don't have to take my money against my will. If it makes you feel better just pretend that your money(the small portion that the government takes against your will goes directly to those kids, it;s what I do.)

Perhaps if the government wasn't stealing all of the wealth of its citizens, they would have more left to help people like you. Oh, I know you'd probably have to be grateful and say thank you, and might even have to endure the mention of God by kind Christians, and all of that horrible stuff that you don't have to do when the government just mails you a check, but oh well...
I was going to keep this whole response as tasteful as I could but after reading this particular paragraph from you I have to say that I feel sorry for you almost. Really? I mean Really? Small digs, religious innuendos' then a dig about my son receiving benefits. I could go on and tell you how I work hard, provide for my family, make better than an average income even, but the care for my son would not be possible without that check the government mails "him", but I have no need to defend myself to the likes of you. Think what you will, but that statement from you speaks volumes to me about your character and the type of person you are.
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Old 07-12-12, 09:24 PM   #81
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Having a sick kid doesn't make you right, nor does it make you unassailable in an argument.

You may think I'm a "douchebag," but you're a first class prick wishing ill on others.

You really don't need to feel sorry for me. I always pay my bills. Heck, I even pay yours.
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Old 07-12-12, 09:24 PM   #82
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Now there is a President you can really be proud of!!!!





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Old 07-12-12, 09:30 PM   #83
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Having a sick kid doesn't make you right, nor does it make you unassailable in an argument.

You may think I'm a "douchebag," but you're a first class prick wishing ill on others.

You really don't need to feel sorry for me. I always pay my bills. Heck, I even pay yours.
You're right, having experienced what Doc has experienced does not make him correct or not of reproach in an argument.

While I may be wrong, I think what Doc said about wishing for you to go through what he has been is a little "tongue and cheek". But the truth is that you can't comprehend what it's like...and you prove it by saying things like "heck, I even pay yours". On a scale of douchebachry (a word I just made up), that takes the cake.
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Old 07-12-12, 09:37 PM   #84
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You're absolutely right, MO...

Me saying I pay his bills is MUCH worse then him wishing horrible illnesses on my children.

Yes, he's a much better person than I am.
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Old 07-12-12, 09:41 PM   #85
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Nice and proper use of sarcasm, nfe. I believe the jabs started from your side to begin with. Did they not?

And my perception, as I stated, is that his comment was "tongue and cheek" while I believe you really feel that much better than those that have been striken with disabilities, personally or loved ones they care for.
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Old 07-12-12, 09:41 PM   #86
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Having a sick kid doesn't make you right, nor does it make you unassailable in an argument.

You may think I'm a "douchebag," but you're a first class prick wishing ill on others.

You really don't need to feel sorry for me. I always pay my bills. Heck, I even pay yours.

Never said it made me Unassailable, as far as me being a prick, hey when someone pushes my buttons spewing forth ignorance and small digs at me, your fair game their "Hamburglar".

Why don't you break out a pie chart showing just how big of an egotystical ******* you can be. I hate that now you feel the need to further the argument and start the "name calling" but when I see someone post something they know nothing about (that is the part that you can't stand, someone might have experience in something you have no right commenting on.) I feel that they should have first hand experience in it, so I stand by my statement I'm waiting patiently for you or someone you love dearly to need "a hand out from the government" to basically get the care they need. So you can come back on these boards and tell us all how you chose to neglect your mom instead of getting back some of what you paid in.

I challenge you to stand behind your statement, If you think that is the way things should be, Never , ever, in your life, under any circumstances take a single thing from our Government in the form of Benefits for you or someone you love. Otherwise shut up, and go back to stroking your own ego by trying to prove to everyone on these boards how smart you are in every subject.

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Old 07-12-12, 09:55 PM   #87
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Never said it made me Unassailable, as far as me being a prick, hey when someone pushes my buttons spewing forth ignorance and small digs at me, your fair game their "Hamburglar".

Why don't you break out a pie chart showing just how big of an egotystical ******* you can be. I hate that now you feel the need to further the argument and start the "name calling" but when I see someone post something they know nothing about (that is the part that you can't stand, someone might have experience in something you have no right commenting on.) I feel that they should have first hand experience in it, so I stand by my statement I'm waiting patiently for you or someone you love dearly to need "a hand out from the government" to basically get the care they need. So you can come back on these boards and tell us all how you chose to neglect your mom instead of getting back some of what you paid in.

I challenge you to stand behind your statement, If you think that is the way things should be, Never , ever, in your life, under any circumstances take a single thing from our Government in the form of Benefits for you or someone you love. Otherwise shut up, and go back to stroking your own ego by trying to prove to everyone on these boards how smart you are in every subject.

You call me a douchebag, and then say I started the namecalling. Typical.

And your logic about me not having a right to comment on "things I don't have personal experience with" is flawed. The day I start having to write a check to pay for them is the day I gain that right.

Mostly, you don't know anything about me.

I happen to take very good care of my parents already. My stepdad had a stroke a couple of years ago, He had brain damage. They went bankrupt, and my Mom didn't even know how to balance a checkbook. I'm the guy always checking in on them and helping them out financially. For some odd reason, I am able to do that. I could probably help them out more if I weren't forced to help out a bunch of other people who don't know me or even care if I dropped dead (or maybe even wish I did).

If the government would stop taking my money, I can promise you I wouldn't ever ask for any.
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Old 07-12-12, 10:01 PM   #88
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BREAKING NEWS!!! Tax rates at lowest levels in 30 years!
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Old 07-12-12, 10:08 PM   #89
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Now there is a President you can really be proud of!!!!





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HUH??
I started this thread figuring I'd get some lively election year posts going. I don't think I like the direction it's taken. Sometimes some of us take the debate to a personal level too soon and too harsh.
Surely yall can remember how we all felt on 9/12.......for just a brief precious moment we were simply................Americans. Nothing else mattered.
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Old 07-12-12, 10:12 PM   #90
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Well, if even KDS is saying it's gotten out of hand, I guess it has.
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Old 07-12-12, 10:12 PM   #91
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breaking news!!! Tax rates at lowest levels in 30 years!
Name:  confused.jpg
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
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Old 07-12-12, 10:37 PM   #92
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Well I will readily admit that this post went about 3 1/2 more pages than I expected before it got out of hand LOL.

Doc, I can appreciate your situation and I not only wish you didn't have to go through it but I admire you working as hard as you do to provide for your family. As I said earlier, I have no problem with people that need help getting it. Whether it's in the form of a government issued check or small charities, I think that helping people who need it is a responsibilty we all should shoulder. However I also believe that something has to be done to make it more difficult for people to abuse the system. Too many people would rather sit on their asses and draw a government check when they are perfectly able to get a job and earn an honest days pay if they would do it. You certainly don't sound to me like you fall in this catagory and I am glad your son is able to get the assistance he deserves. Now if we could do away with all the people who are abusing the system, the people who need help could get it and the tax payers would still notice less money being held out of their checks (as long as the government didn't come up with another place to spend that money. Hey a guy can dream can't he?).
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Old 07-12-12, 10:39 PM   #93
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Since NFE feels he's being taxed to death...I just thought he would like to know some facts. I say the Government should stop taking his money, if he agrees to stay off our highways, and out of our reservoirs.







$3.5 trillion budget
S.S. 20.4%
Defense 20.1%
Medicare 13.1%
Medicaid/CHIP 8.1%
Interest 5.7%
Low Income Assistance 5.3%
U.C. 4.6%
Education/Training 3.7%
Fed. Emp. Retirement 3.5%
Veterans 3.1%
Transportation 2.7%
Other Healthcare 2.6%
Parks/Natural Resources 1.3%
Space/Science 0.9%
Foreign Aid 0.9%
Agriculture 0.6%
Everything Else(?) 3.5%

...and just so you know, only 18% of us pay no Federal Income/Payroll Taxes...Just saying...

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Old 07-13-12, 01:28 AM   #94
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...and just so you know, only 18% of us pay no Federal Income/Payroll Taxes...Just saying...

Of course, Dogmatic...bound by the lower of the two items...those that don't pay payroll taxes (i.e. unemployed, econimically out of the labor force, retired, and maybe or maybe not those that only pay SE tax and not a true payroll tax). That wasn't the point of my original post which was those that didn't pay income tax. My reasoning? Trying to correct the wrong perception of a lot of folks...that the rich don't pay as much income tax as they do. You're right, they pay at a much higher rate than others. Draw you conclusions as you wish from that statement...whatever they may be...but it is still a true statement.
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Old 07-13-12, 07:33 AM   #95
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Really? Roughly 22% compared to 11% on average for the Middle-class. WOW! that is a much higher rate...NOT! The average Federal Tax Rate for all Fed. Tax is 17.4%, and Income Tax 7.2%('09, all households). Once again, it's not about taxes, very few of us pay our fair share.
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Old 07-13-12, 08:29 AM   #96
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Oh you are right...DOUBLE is not significant. All I was saying is that p in my job, there is a strong misconception that the middle class pays more.....that is not true....neither as a tax rate or as a percentage of AGI.
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Old 07-13-12, 09:17 AM   #97
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I'll confess I'm disappointed in some here. Whining, Complaining and name calling about well deserved entitlements and/or helping the poor, hungry and disabled???

What about the billions spent in foreign aid to support governments and people that hate our stinking guts? What about the billions to bring democracy to hell holes like Iraq and Afghanistan? What about the zillion other ways that government works hard to waste money.

Years ago my wife became seriously ill and was bedridden for over two years. Denied twice, she was finally granted SSDI in federal court. We really didn't want SSDI, we wanted her life back...but we had to settle for less. She had worked for years prior, paying into the system. I don't consider it a handout, but rather a payback. It wasn't your money NFE, it was hers....just as my retirement isn't your money, it's a portion of mine being paid back. Unlike you, I fully expect to collect SS as social programs will be the very last to fail. Although being a baby boomer, I hope for the best and fear the worst.

> Lets cut foreign aid and pull the military out of foreign countries - we're not responsible for the world, only our part of it. We need to stay strong and make it understood that any foreign actions that threaten the global environment will not be tolerated, but we should no longer attempt to be the world police force.
> Lets more closely examine how/where our country spends money like drunken congressmen!
> Lets better educate our young (and older) people to better ensure their future and ours.
> Lets up the tariffs on foreign imports.
> Lets bring manufacturing and technological development back to America.
... I have some other more radical ideas (like legalizing, cleaning up and taxing the victim-less crime of prostitution), but I'll spare everyone - lol

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Old 07-13-12, 09:27 AM   #98
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Really? Roughly 22% compared to 11% on average for the Middle-class. WOW! that is a much higher rate...NOT! The average Federal Tax Rate for all Fed. Tax is 17.4%, and Income Tax 7.2%('09, all households). Once again, it's not about taxes, very few of us pay our fair share.
You're right. Very few of us pay our fair share. EXCEPT for Bryce. He pays his share, my share and sooo much more than his fair share that we should all give him a by for the rest of his self centered life. And Bryce? A few of here who might have just thought that you were a selfish douchebag before, are sure of it now. You, Sir, are so far over the edge that you would need a compass and map to even find your way back to the fringe. After reading a few of your posts; it is very easy to dislike you. After reading a few more; it is mostly pity that I feel for you. What a sad excuse for a human being you are.
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Old 07-13-12, 09:30 AM   #99
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I'll confess I'm disappointed in some here. Whining, Complaining and name calling...

Didn't mean to add to that if I did. I was trying to defend, on what I believed, were character/personal attacks on Doc...a man that I know no more than NFE himself. I felt the jabs were unwarranted and that none of us can understand his situation unless we have been there ourselves.

Dogmatic and I were just having a friendly conversation...I take nothing personal out of what and how he is arguing his point.

I will desist from here...mainly b/c I want to have a few friends left on this site.

Good day everyone!
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Old 07-13-12, 09:31 AM   #100
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I'll confess I'm disappointed in some here. Whining, Complaining and name calling about well deserved entitlements and/or helping the poor, hungry and disabled???

What about the billions spent in foreign aid to support governments and people that hate our stinking guts? What about the billions to bring democracy to hell holes like Iraq and Afghanistan? What about the zillion other ways that government works hard to waste money.

Years ago my wife became seriously ill and was bedridden for over two years. Denied twice, she was finally granted SSDI in federal court. We really didn't want SSDI, we wanted her life back...but we had to settle for less. She had worked for years prior, paying into the system. I don't consider it a handout, but rather a payback. It wasn't your money NFE, it was hers....just as my retirement isn't your money, it's a portion of mine being paid back. Unlike you, I fully expect to collect SS as social programs will be the very last to fail. Although being a baby boomer, I hope for the best and fear the worst.

> Lets cut foreign aid and pull the military out of foreign countries - we're not responsible for the world, only our part of it. We need to stay strong and make it understood that any foreign actions that threaten the global environment will not be tolerated, but we should no longer attempt to be the world police force.
> Lets more closely examine how/where our country spends money like drunken congressmen!
> Lets better educate our young (and older) people to better ensure their future and ours.
> Lets up the tariffs on foreign imports.
> Lets bring manufacturing and technological development back to America.
... I have some other more radical ideas (like legalizing, cleaning up and taxing the victim-less crime of prostitution), but I'll spare everyone - lol

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