01-02-11, 05:32 AM | #1 |
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What's new and where's the sense in it?
I have been cruising on-line sites that feature videos and write-ups on the latest fishing tackle.
Most of the new product centre around recurring themes: New smaller, lighter reels with even more bearings and higher gear ratio's... Sort of Carter Burden meets fishing... "You can never be too thin, too rich, or have too many books." becomes "You can't have too high a gear ratio, be too small or have too many bearings." Rods for slightly different tactics or presentations... Worms but not Jigs on this one, Spinnerbaits but not Cranks here...Top waters and Frogs on that one...no wait...was that one Jerkbaits and C-rigs...Sometimes you just can't tell the players without a program!!! More rods that are Species Specific... What was I thinking? I can't chase bass with a walleye rod!!! And of coarse the latest can't miss baits! I haven't seen so many "New and Improved" that looked like the "same-old in a new wrapper" since my last trip to the laundry soap aisle at the Super Market! It reading the comments and viewing the testimonials I began to recall the theory of the"Big Lie." Richard Belzer defines The Big Lie, in his book UFOs, JFK, and Elvis: Conspiracies You Don't Have To Be Crazy To Believe, this way: "If you tell a lie that's big enough, and you tell it often enough, people will believe you are telling the truth, even when what you are saying is total crap." In fishing terms I think that's sort of like the benefits of Fluorocarbon... Then the latest must-have fads: Reels with "go-fast" paint jobs. Mini Guides. Do they come with a needle threader? And even more Split-Grips. Does anyone else get those end knobs tangled in their jacket??? As kids weren't we catching fish on garden worms? Wasn't hi-tech a neon coloured rod? When were we seduced into believing we needed ten shapes of plastic creatures, in eight colours, swing from $500.00 worth of space-age materials just to do the same job? Okay, the truth is I need all this new stuff because the bass on my waters have a higher grade-point average than most College Freshmen, but I doubt that you do...HAHAHA |
01-02-11, 08:24 AM | #2 |
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It's that little creature in all of us. Got to have creature. Ya'll know of whom I speak.
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01-02-11, 08:48 AM | #3 |
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You are not the only one questioning this, I don't get it either. , Just look at some postings here
People complaining about rod builders, reaching lower pricing points, as it destroys the feelings of exclusivitity these guys get from fishing these 300+ rods Reels, some for the "Japanese Domestic Market",only, that have bone handles, a few dozen bearings and fancy metals and paint jobs. Then they get pissed off that they still backlash, when a good thumb is mostly what you need Lures that cost over 25 bucks, with fancy paint jobs, and a basic Black,Silver and or gold balsa bait , in the right location will out fish them all AND THIS IS THE KICKER: THEY ARE STILL CATCHING THE SAME SIZE/AMOUNT FISH AS THEY ALWAYS DO, AND CAN';T WAIT FOR THE NEXT GIMMICK TO COME ALONG and as long as Kevin Van Dam uses it and advertises it, they are there with wallets open I have no opinion on high end stuff, I will not use, it not my deal, not my business how another fella spends his money What gets me, particularly here of the 3 boards I frequent, how quickly a lot of the high end users are to dismiss those of us who don't fish in tournaments and have medium range equipment, but in reality , if all are telling the truth, are bringing more and better fish to the boat, consistently I know why and how I fish, it is not my business for those who approach it differently, for me ,my focus is on understanding where they are, what they are eating and cutting out non productive areas of new bodies of water that I am approaching, to quote a guy who has taught me a lot 'IT'S NOT WHAT'S IN YOUR WALLET,THAT MAKES YOU A BETTER FISHERMAN,IT'S WHAT'S BETWEEN YOUR EARS' ....CATT, from bassresource.com,one of the Original Hemp hill Gang, on Toledo Bend Last edited by Ebbetsguy; 01-02-11 at 11:06 AM. |
01-02-11, 11:02 AM | #4 |
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Garry, you gotta be careful, man, or they are gonna drum you right out of the elitist corps! LOL You have punched some serious holes in the juggernauts of marketing and advertizing. However, I doubt if the ship is really sinking, for there are just too many fishermen out there who are willing to buy anything that is thrust upon them. I challenge anyone to find something interesting to do that isn’t being assaulted by the same forces. Fishing is only one of many leisure activities that have fallen to the premise that “clever marketing hype will convince enough of them to buy this, which in turn will keep our firm afloat amid all the competitive pressures.” Hunting, camping, hiking, golf, tennis – you name it – there’s some marketing stooge out there whose sole purpose in life is to convince you that you just cannot pursue this activity properly without one (or preferably several) of these new ‘high-tech whatevers’.
I don’t buy all this crap either, Garry … never have and never will. A couple of comments on the specific points in your post: Smaller reels and more bearings… the more the merrier it seems. There has to be a theoretical limit to the number of bearings that can be crammed into the internal space of a reel. It’s sort of like razors – more blades for a better shave. But how do I shave my upper lip with my new 22-blade razor? Flourocarbon lines … Show me anyone who has actually seen the world through a fish’s eyes. The fact that we humans see (or fail to see) polymers in water when their refractive index matches that of water, that doesn’t automatically mean that Bass and other species see things the same way. The refractive index of fish eyes is probably different, and the truth is we don’t’ really know what fish see or don’t see, or how they perceive their own world, or the things that invade their world on the ends of our lines. And so the voices of reason shall be lost in the wilderness and the masses will continue to feed the voracious greed of those who prey upon the gullible. |
01-02-11, 11:33 AM | #5 |
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Sometimes there is a fine line between gimmick & innovation. Good thing we have forums for everyone to voice their opinion about what's hot and not though. It is just like a Coke, they will keep going up until they quit selling them at the prices they are charging.
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01-02-11, 11:48 AM | #6 |
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+1 Gary.
+1 Dom. There is always room for technological improvement, but not for its own sake. What's the funniest is when anglers actually defend the swindlers who have sold them a 100 mpg carburetor. You should see the reactions I have gotten on the "tackle enthusiast" forums when I drill holes in the bottoms of their holy grails. Hilarious.
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01-02-11, 11:50 AM | #7 |
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At least you're not ruining good threads anymore.
I have some suggestions for you: Don't use small reels, don't use reels with bearings, and don't use high speed reels. Don't use different rods for different techniques. Don't use bass specific rods. But then don't use walleye, musky, etc specific rods either. Don't use new baits. Don't use painted reels. Don't use micro guides. Don't use split grips. And finally, stop whining about things you don't understand or don't want to consider. I'm done with you and your absurd notion that everything new and advanced is ridiculous. BB
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01-02-11, 11:54 AM | #8 |
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, Hey No Fear; Your input on lures and equipment , from an engineers point of view has been a great learning tool for me,and I thank you for that. You and Kevin (pro reel) give some of the most informative posts, on rods and reels and Marty on lures, real first hand experience, I always look for you 3 fellas when I get on here.
ps I see from reading your posts here and on bassresource, you seem to be looking into using your electronics more efficiently also. I am going to the NYBASS.com seminar on the 16th, some of the speakers will be on this subject, if I get anything to help you I will forward to you via email |
01-02-11, 12:00 PM | #9 | |
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I can not and will not argue or be disrespectful, any longer over fishing equipment, as in the end I have used what i am happy with, my fishing experience keeps getting richer and i have no experience with the stuff you use. I am suggesting that you stop denigrating those who do not agree with you, as it hampers meaningful discussion I have learned things from those much younger than me, it's the delivery BTW whats the difference between those who do not want to use new products, giving minimal advantages, oif any then be closed minded to old technology I dare anyone to come up with a bass bait as good as a Jitterbug Shad Rap Plastic worm and especially a Jig,all of which have been around for the 4 decades i have been on the water, and since I have concentrated on finding them, these same baits are producing better fish than ever. |
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01-02-11, 12:24 PM | #10 |
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You point out several good points here Garry. I know I could probably be counted in with those who fal prey to "newer and better". But mostly I purchase new equipment to either replace old worn out gear and add in a combo I feel will give me an advantage. Example. I fished for 25 years with the old round ABU baitcasters. Those are great reels and I still have them around. However, I've replaced them over the past several years with low profile models mainly because I have small hands and find the low profile versions so much more comfortable to use. I'm buying a new frog rod now because untill now I've been using my jig pitchin outfit for froggin as well. I would rather have a frog on one rod and a jig or beaver type bait on another rod in order to work an area with both at the same time. There are times when upgrading is a good thing. But all we have to do is look back 30 years ago to guys like Buck Perry, the Martin brothers, Roland Martin, and so on to see that they were catching as many bass as the best fisherman today, and they were using the gear most guys have left behind in a closet.
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01-02-11, 12:44 PM | #11 | ||
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I appreciate good discussions and hope to have more with you and many others on the site, Ebbets, but I really hate one sided discussions and that's what Garry seems to be all about. I just wanted to point out to him that if he doesn't like all the things he posted about, he doesn't need to use them. I believe his posts are centrally about finding people who agree with him while ignoring those who don't. And that is really pointless IMO. BB
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01-02-11, 12:45 PM | #12 | |
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Let me get this straight. If you don't believe in high end equipment then you can make post after post about how stupid it is, and or the people who use it. But if you have high end equipment and post about it then you are just misguided? I have a lot of high end gear, in fact that's all I have. Not becauase I like saying I own high end gear, but because I am on the water a ton and I fish a lot of tournaments and I need to be able to count on my stuff. I own several Lucky Craft and Megabass baits and I will tell you right now that there are times when they will out fish any other brand of the same bait. Are there times when it doesn't matter what brand you are using? Sure there is, however for those times when it does matter they are well worth the money. I think it's funny that in one breath you state that a basic balsa bait will out fish a $25 bait, but then in the next breath you say that you don't even use expensive baits, then how can you say whether expensive tackle is or isn't worth the money?
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01-02-11, 01:17 PM | #13 |
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I find this discussion somewhat humorous, the main reason is because I hear a few people say that we should disregard technology, that we should stick to the old, and that everything new is just about hype and selling new equipment that isn't any better suited to catching fish than the same stuff that was introduced 30 years ago. Well guess what, you bought into it too. The rods and reels that you use now were new technology at one time also, and it didn't seem to bother you then, otherwise you would still be using a cane pole, string and can of worms.
You can argue technology, you can hate change, but guess what, you can't stop it. It is going to happen with or without you. What I really see are a small group of people that got left behind somewhere and fear what they do not understand. They are comfortable where they are and don't want to move on. There is a good book for those of you that fall into this category, it is called, "Who moved my Cheese" basic enough that even the most close minded of person can grasp its message. I say this, change, don't change it does not make any difference to me, but don't be angry and bitter because you don't understand and got left behind. Buck Perry the Martin brothers, and Roland Martin did catch great fish, I remember watching them on television with my Grandfather. But guess what, they were using the best technology of their time, they had the latest and greatest. They fished from the best boats, using the best rod and reels and most innovative baits of their time. But now for some reason as technology has moved on and rod and reels have become more advanced you can't grasp why a new group of anglers would want to use them. I will finish by saying this, put your rod and reels and your tackle in a boat with any angler of your choosing, and I will choose to pick KVD or any of several modern anglers with their equipment and their tackle, you will not stand a chance, you will not even be in the same ball park. This is like comparing the wood bats to composite bats, wood tennis rackets to over sized graphite framed rackets. There just really in no comparison. The great thing about fishing is there is room for all of us, to quote a good friend of mine, GET IN WHERE YOU FIT IN. /Rant Last edited by Tavery5; 01-02-11 at 02:22 PM. |
01-02-11, 01:57 PM | #14 | |
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01-02-11, 02:18 PM | #15 | |
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Very well said Tav. I agree completely. BB
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01-02-11, 02:52 PM | #16 |
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After reading through this post...One thing of importance sticks out to me.
Whats a ''go-fast'' paint job?
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01-02-11, 07:00 PM | #17 |
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Sorry BB, I did not know there was some discourse between you and Gary, not my business
Carolina: Well you fellas with high end gear seem to only answer each other on threads, thats not too hard to see by reading just 5 days worth of posts, nothing thats going to cause me to commit suicide or anything, not to worry I am not telling anyone to do anything, but it seems for a few, and yes you are one of those few, if anyone challenges what you use , you seem to take it personally. I don,t know any pros, don't know KVD from a box of roofing nails, ad i really dont care how or why he fishes anything. I fish for fun, because it's not work . I fish, have fish for 40 years and i fish often. In recent years I have tried and found to be a ridiculous waste of my time and money Flouro Red any thing: Right from KVD; he said that red mono, was a good choice a wile back, b/c the fish couldn't see that spectrum Last year he said a red eye'd bait, made by his sponsors ,attracted fish, well what is it can they see red or not. I will tell you this he and his sponsors certainly can see green. I had a chance to fish Smallies on the Susquehanna using said red eyed baits they did no better or worse than Bill Lewis Traps or Rattlin Rapalas, which go for around .80 less per bait. I liked swim baits, thats relatively new, but my 60 shoulder doesn't so I put them down, to tell you the truth I keeep getting better fish the more i learn on where and why to throw my jigs Biosonix and side imaging, no need for me to have them, so no opinion, but i can find a creek channel, sunken rock, wrecked boat and weedy bottoms, with my old Garmin 160, why do I need to UPGRADE? New for te sake of new is BS and what a lot of tourney fishermen endorse to money,b/c thats a pro's job to make money Lucky Craft/Clunn Baits Strike King KVD Cranks Vagabonds MS Mini slammer>> Caught c better fish with a JitterbugXL Dont jump to conclusions about what I have fished, most who know me know that I NEVER talk about what I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH . I also don't fear what i don't understand, I learn what i want to, fishing is not a required activity. Again, arrogance and presumption all over this, I dont know who the #&^!&^ Trey or Loomis is, couldn't give a crap either, I do okay with my rods and i am sure you are satisfied with your stuff The whole demeanor of your post actually proves my point, there is a certain arrogance towards fishermen that dont buy all of the modern stuff. Thats nothing being said about you, because you are not your equipment. I feel neither angry, nor left behind, I am still alive by the grace of God, and having some of the finest fishing experiences a man can be blessed with. I don't like your tone, not much I can do about it, I was guilty of being even harder on line, I have changed up, you might want to try it as people become more willing toi exchange ideas with you I dont fish to compete, and never will I fish because its not work! I refuse to put money into KVD"S, Iconelli's or whosoever pocket it goes into because I have learned an important lesson in life I OWN MY STUFF< IT DOES NOT OWN ME! IT DOES NOT DEFINE ME! and I AM SUCCESSF WITH WHAT I HAVE I am done here , i refuse to get into crap, over things that in the end don't mean much, that was my old MO, it served no one well. Now I have a 4 hour drive ahead of me back to PA, see ya, but not on this thread. Last edited by Ebbetsguy; 01-02-11 at 07:15 PM. |
01-02-11, 10:07 PM | #18 | |
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http://www.bassfishin.com/bassfishin...ad.php?t=26200 I have no idea what kind of gear this fella uses, but I don't see where I made sure he used high end gear before I replied. http://www.bassfishin.com/bassfishin...ad.php?t=25700 Please enjoy this one, this is from an entry level angler and I took some time and put down some good advice for this guy. http://www.bassfishin.com/bassfishin...ad.php?t=26091 Again I don't know what kind of gear this guy uses either but I don't recall asking before replying to his post. http://www.bassfishin.com/bassfishin...ad.php?t=26091 Pretty much the same here, never checked on what kind of gear he uses either. I could dig deeper but I am sure you get the point, well you should get the point anyways. So you don't like my tone? LOL man there are so many people on this site that has been sick of your tone for so long that it isn't even funny. You are often the talk of the chat room and PM's so I guess that goes both ways. In fact if I remember right didn't you get ran off once and then come back as another user name there Muddy? I mean Ebbets. I do find if funny thought that you think I am arrogant. I mean I have met several guys off this site in person and I personally challenge you to find a single one of them who would call me arrogant. On the other hand your post and every other post I have read that you have made is full of arrogance. You claim that you "were harder online but changed it up", maybe you should try it again because I am not sure the first try worked out too well. And don't worry about people being willing to exchange ideas with me, I have a lot of good conversations and swap a lot of ideas with the fine people on this site (regardless of what gear they use). Do you really think that I could care less whether a guy uses a Diawa Steez rod and reel vs. A bargain bin rod with a Zebco? LOL I use high end gear because it holds up better and it's easier for me to buy it once than it is to keep replacing it. Thats my money and my business. If someone else finds it works better for them to save some money up front and replace gear as needed then so be it. I just don't ever want to be on the lake pre-fishing a day before a tournament and have a few reels go bad or discover some other problems that may arise with cheaper equipment and not have time to replace it before the tournament. Or for that matter have to worry about it breaking on tourney day so I choose to pay more money for less headaches.........Why in the hell am I even explaining it to you, as closed minded as you are there is no sense in any of this post I am sure.
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01-02-11, 10:51 PM | #19 |
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Ebbets, Kory Johnson (c-rig) is one of the finest guys you'll ever meet. He doesn't care what kind of equipment you have, you can fish from the bank with a cane pole and if you need help call c-rig he will help ya. I'm proud to call Kory a friend. And no I don't have Hi-end equipment my bass boat is 17 yrs old and thats just a start.
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01-02-11, 10:55 PM | #20 | |
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01-02-11, 11:25 PM | #21 |
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Muddy, you don't know me and I don't know you and hopefully it will stay that way. But you lost all credibility calling Kory out on that one. He's neither arrogant nor presumptuous. He is, in fact, one of the finest people I've ever met. That's not exaggeration- it's just fact.
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01-02-11, 11:29 PM | #22 |
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I had wanted to respond to this earlier but wasn't able to. After the thread deteriorated into attacks, I debated not responding at all.
I will first offer the following disclaimer. I am very guilty of buying the newest innovation/gimmick on a regular basis. Hell, I won two carrot sticks and love them. For me the question becomes, what is high end? I think that it is relative to the individual. There was a time when a high end reel for me meant that it didn't come as part of a walmart combo. That being said, I wanted to say that at the heart of it, I do agree that the market is flooded with ton's of gear and none of it does not work 100 times better than other stuff. But, does it work 1%, 5%, 10%? Secondly, is that percentage that it is better worth it to the individual making the purchase? No one can answer that except for the guy who is making the purchase. I have made ton's of fishing purchases that did not work for me. Perhaps it is my own presentation, perhaps it does have something to do with the fish in my area. Who knows, but it flat out doesn't work for me. (As an example, I have caught tons of fish on yamamoto kreatures, but only two ever on a rattletrap) I often wonder how many folks made fun of the first jitterbug. I am sure that adding a funny lip to the bait was quite humorous when it first came out. Lastly, I feel that there is a ton of fishing knowledge on this site. I am sure that I can learn just as much from the guys who fish with a single bait as the ones who try several new things. The problem is that once things disolve into name calling ON BOTH SIDES, then I really don't value their opinion as much.
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01-02-11, 11:41 PM | #23 |
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Okay Cass, ill buy that, and back off, like I said I was
Chancho,not to worry I really don't spend much time with young, Regan conservatives from the deep south Had to turn back,major fog and wreck issues, will start back in the AM, btw I announced when I changed my name, tried to start fresh. I watched the click here , and yes on every board there are clicks, nothing wrong with that, anyways i watched you gang tackle and run WestNY off also, I am not going to take the same bait twice, I have met a few fellas here i get along with, the rest of you might want to try the ignore function, its pretty cool |
01-03-11, 12:34 AM | #24 | |
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WestNY had problems playing well with others, period end of story. He would intentionally start threads or make post knowing full well that he was going to offend the members who have put a lot of energy and effort into making this site great and keeping it free of people who just tried to stir up confrontations, much like yourself. This site was better before he came along and is better now that he left but that isn't the issue here. The issue is that you said a lot of stuff about some of the members here who are a big part of this site and everyone took offense to it, myself included. I guess I don't quite follow, you said that there are clicks here. Well I am not saying that isn't true but a big part of that is because we are friends on and off the site. A lot of us are friends because we have met in person, some members live very close to other members and fish together frequently, and some of us just call each other now and then on the phone. So we aren't supposed to bs a little here and there with our friends on this site on top of our regular posting? As far as I am concerned you are no better than you were prior to this big change that you say you made in your actions and I see no reason to exchange blows with someone who is as closed minded or self absorbed without reason as you are. You seldom contribute to this site in a positive way and what credibility you did have is dwindling away rapidly. Hope the fog clears and you have a safe trip.
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01-03-11, 11:00 AM | #25 |
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Good Morning Gentlemen,
It is not my intent to jump into the middle of this 'firestorm'. I only want to point out the misuse of the term "click". The term I assume you actually mean is "clique", which is a word of French origin, meaning "an exclusive group, or inner circle". Whether this Forum actually has one or more "cliques" would, for me, be a matter of conjecture. In other words I haven't been coming here long enough to decide. But it seems there are always going to be groups formed within groups and certain 'subsets' of people who gravitate to the same beliefs or points of view. I suppose that's the premise that political parties are based on. My only question at this point is "Why can't we all just get along?" Every member in here has the right to express his/her opinions, and whether or not everyone else agrees or disagrees will depend on the subject at hand. Maybe we all need to take one step back and remember that we come in here mainly to learn, to teach, to share, and to enjoy the many and various thoughts relevant to Bass fishing. Perhaps some of us take ourselves too seriously at times. I try not to take myself that seriously, and I hope, by now, that many of you have learned not to take me too seriously either. That's all I have to say. /
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