Braid question.

[CanalStalkin]

Hey guys, I am about to spool up my jig/t-rig rod with some braid. The question I have is, is there an advantage to using a mono backing over a piece of tape? I was told by another person to spool up fully with mono, make a long cast plus pull a bit more out and replace that much with braid. He said there wasnt a need to waist the braid. I tried this and I just didn't like the feel of it, had a sloppy feel to it. Id like your guys opinions. Also another concern I had is that I got some 30# pp for a gift. Should I be too worried about line digging in?

[islandbass]

He is right about the waste but to some it isn't a waste.

Pros for tape
Much easier, no knot involved. I would use that tape that comes with some spools or painters take.

Cons
If you have a spool that is 100% braid, much of it will never be used to fight a fish. This is why some folks also use the mono backing. When they can see they're getting close to the mono, it's a sign to add more braid.

Pros for mono backing
You will be able to keep the spool at a closer to full even if you're running low on braid. This helps to keep of the spools IPT which is important to some and optimize casts.

Cons for mono backing
None really, with regard to bass fishing.

To get around that uncomfortable feel, change the ratio. I don't like that method. My own experience made that max cast plus a little more braid on top has shown this to be impractical for my shorebound fishing. If I made a max cast and got snagged up, gee willies, I just lost my entire top braid.

Solution: Change the mono to braid ratio. Put a greater percentage of braid on top. This will give you the right feel. 45/55 mono to braid or whatever ratio is best.

Line Dig Concern
30# ppro is not going to dig in as much as 20# or 10# braid. It can dig in but it isn't going to be much of a concern if you know how to minimize its occurences. Matter of fact, I don't experience it very much if at all anymore.

Basicially, any great force you exert on the line while the drag is set tightly and the spool is engaged increases the potential for line dig.

Minimizing Line Dig
1) When you're snagged, don't try to yank the lure free with rod and reel. That force you exert to free it is one culprit of line dig. Instead, just work with the line to free it. Warning: Be careful. Braid, when taut, can easily cut your skin.
2) Stripping line off the spool after a cast with the drag tightly set and the spool is engaged is another potential culprit of line dig. Solution: Strip line from the spool while it is still disengaged with you thumb putting just enough pressure (this is very light pressure) on the spool to allow the line to smoothly come off. If you get a bit on the fall, your thumb will act as your drag until you can engage the spool.

Since you're going to use 30# ppro, you could use 8# mono. With their diameters being about the same, you can safely assume that once you have the spool half full, the amount of braid you put on top will be about the same.

I think you will like the benefits braid offers.

[CanalStalkin]

Awesome response Island! I have asked multiple people on multiple forums and havent gotten a cut and dry answer. Appreciate it. I too am stuck on shore so that makes alot of sense. I have some old 8lb test that should fit the bill perfectly. With mono on a baitcaster spool, can I just use a plain ol' slip knot? What is the recommended knot for mono to braid? (dang, I need to brush up on my knot knowledge )

Appreciate the help!

[MississippiBoy]

Welcome to the site, stalkin', and those are some good questions.
For mono to braid, I use the Blood knot. Some others use the Double Surgeon's, or the Uni-to-Uni knot. It won't really matter a whole lot, especially if you take IB's advice and fill half of your spool with braid. That knot will probably never see the light of day, so there won't be much, if any, tension on it. Here's a good website that has a lot of useful knots on it:
http://animatedknots.com/indexfishin...matedknots.com

[Bassboss]

No, it's a MUST in my mind to use a mono backing. It's just masted braid sitting there on the bottom of your reel. Just make sure to keep the line packed on the spool tightly, that way it just feels better, and it won't dig into the spool.

[CiK]

I use electricians tape because I can get some tension on it. Does anybody use another kind?

[nofearengineer]

I do not usally use backing lines. Here is my reasoning:

True, putting cheap mono on your reel on Day 1 does save you the cost of about 50 yards (about half of the average reel) of braid.

However, it just costs you that line on the tail end, after you've inevitably lost a few yards due to retying, snags, abrasion, etc.

Let's say you start out with 50 yds of braid, backed by 50 yds of mono. Works great, initially. But after you lose 10-20 yds, do you really want to risk parting off when you reach mono on a long cast or a big fish? If that's okay with you, then I guess everything's fine. The risk of breaking at the knot is small.

If you're not comfortable with the risk, now you have to throw away 30 yds of braid, just to put 50 yds of new braid back on it. I doubt anyone is going to just add 20 yds of new braid.

Me? I've still got 80 yds of good solid braid on my reel. And if it wears a bit, I just take it off, and wind it backwards, using the old backing as my new line.

I guess the essence of my approach is that the fewer knots in your line, the better.

If I were changing line frequently, or mostly flipping 10 yards or less, I think the mono backing idea makes perfect, great sense. But my braid lasts so long (and actually seems to perform a little better once it's "broken in" and soft), I prefer not to use a backing.

[bassboogieman]

One reason I have about 4' of fluro leader on all my braid. I break the fluro off, almost never loose any braid.

[Garry2rs]

On low profile bass reels etc. it might not be worth the trouble, but eight or nine years ago I had several 400 size Calcutta's to fill with 80 pound braid for Musky fishing.

I started out using 70 or 75 yards of braid on top of a spool of 20 pound mono. This way I could refill two reels from one new spool of line.
The only problem was that when the 70 odd yards was reduced to the point where I needed to top the reel up again, whatever was left of the braid was so short it was scrap.

After about three years of this I decided to fill the reels with braid...When I wanted to top-up the spool, I wound on enough 20 pound mono to fill the reel up again. Then, I tied the patch to my boat and let out all the line...I then stopped and REVERSED THE LINE on the reel. No more waste!

Later, it was easy to wind on another mono patch when the spool needed topping up again. I would refill the spool to where I wanted it, with 20 pound mono...Then tie the new tag end to a cleat, put the reel in free spool, and drag the loop of line behind the boat. When I reached the old splice, I stopped and tied the two pieces of mono together and rewound everything, with the original tag end of braid on the outside. I continued to reverse and re-reverse the line for several years before I needed to actually replace it.

For backing, I used cheap Walmart 20 pound mono, because it was about the same diameter as the 80 pound braid. When there were a couple of splices in it, I discarded those pieces and started a fresh piece of backing.

I use the tape that is in the package to secure the knot to the arbor except with vented spools, where I simply tie through a couple of the holes.

The secret to eliminating line "dig-in" is to have a tightly wound spool. After filling or refilling the reel I always let all the line out behind the boat with a bait on, then rewind it under load.
If I have a snag or break-off, I pull out a few yards of line to be sure there is no trapped line, on the spool, waiting to foal my next cast.

I have a tool for tying the nail knot, which I like because the tag ends are inside of the knot. If I'm working at home, I splice with two nail knots, however, in a pinch, I use a Uni to Uni to join my lines. In either case, the knot is deep inside the spool.

If you have no boat you might be able to do these things using the water coming over a dam, or using a fast flowing stream. Just don't let go of the loose ends...HAHAHA.
Garry2R's

[islandbass]

As you can see, there is no right or wrong. For example, No fear's POV is quite valid. That is why I choose to have more braid than mono on my reels. I also might bring some extra braid to tie braid to braid, but this is a super rare occurrence. Matter of fact, I think I only had to do it once.

Many folks use the arbor knot to tie the line to the spool, but it really doesn't matter. Even electric tape will do. The point is, the arbor knot is pretty weak to begin with and any fish that takes you down that far deserves to win the bout.

[nofearengineer]

Originally Posted by islandbass

Many folks use the arbor knot to tie the line to the spool, but it really doesn't matter.

Haha, you are so right, IB. If you start to see spool showing, you better hurry up and put on some gloves, because you are about to be hand-lining, no matter what knot you tied to the spool with.

[BigBassin144]

I fill about 1/2 the reel with mono and the rest with braid. Most reels are rated for 12lb test, and around 120yds of it. if I fill the reel half way with mono, that leaves 60yds of 12lb left. This is quite a bit more braid than 60yds figuring I rarely use over 30lb (8lb diameter). Also, I don't use tape. I use the double uni or uni-to-uni knot. (same knot, two names by the way)

BB

[brushhog]

Great thread fellas, I've been thinking about respooling now in the winter and this is helping me make some decisions...

[Jrob78]

I only use braid on one reel but I do prefer to fill that reel completely with braid. I run the line through the holes on the spool and tie it off, so no slip. Because you don't normally have break offs with braid and you don't have to constantly cut off frayed line, I find that a full spool will get me through a season. I don't really think that one way or the other is necessarily right or wrong, I just like not having knots in my line and not having to worry about it.

[Bender]

I just want to agree with IB on this one. Normally I use 15-30# braid and go about half and half on a reel with mono. Problem this summer on my spook rod I went with 50# and tried this and ended up casting into the backing all of the time. Remember that heavier braids take up A LOT more room on a spool and adjust your ratio accordingly.

[Rebbasser]

It really comes down to personal preference. I don't use any backing, but as you can see others do. Just do whatever you are most comfortable with.

[cassidyta]

Everyone has some great points on this, but the only thing I will add is to try and match the diameter of the mono backing to the braid. If your backing is considerably smaller or larger than your braid, then you will have some digging in problems to the backing itself.
Now this won't be an issue if you have a large braid leader, but if your leader is only a max cast + 10%, then it will start to cause some issues.

[BeaverIslander]

Damn good answer by islandbass. He pretty much has it covered, but everybody's preferences differ a bit. It may take a little experimenting and a little wasted line to figure out what feels right to you.

Personally, I often use the same line to back the reel as I use with it to fish. I just replace the last 40-60 yards with a double-uni knot. I do it quite often, every few trips with mono and fluoro. I replace as little line as possible, so that I am just beginning to feel a bump on my spool from the knot when a long cast is out. That way I can save a few $$ and still be using fresh, limp, untwisted line.

Mono backing is generally a good place to start. Bargain bins often have 3000 yd spools for $10-20 bucks in the late Fall. Another alternative that you can find in those bins is cheap heavy braid. I use 50lb yellow PowerPro as backing on a couple reels that was $5 a spool. I don't see why I couldn't put mono or fluoro on top of that. It makes a good backing IMO.

[reddrooster]

I use 1/3 mono backing. When I purchase a new reel, I have them spool it up to 1/3 and I never have to mess with it. I add the braid usually 30# PP, when I get home.

Another thing I do is....when the braid gets faded, This takes two extra reels laying around...most don't have that but in case you do....I spool it off to the first reel, then spool to the second... then run it back on the original reel. Now the unused line is on the top.

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by reddrooster

I use 1/3 mono backing. When I purchase a new reel, I have them spool it up to 1/3 and I never have to mess with it. I add the braid usually 30# PP, when I get home.

Another thing I do is....when the braid gets faded, This takes two extra reels laying around...most don't have that but in case you do....I spool it off to the first reel, then spool to the second... then run it back on the original reel. Now the unused line is on the top.

Ditto, on both accounts!

Plus, the reason I use backing is to soften the affect on your drag. direct tying to the spool (even if you have the through hole line tie) will absolutely destroy most drag systems after a while. It will work for a while, but eventually you will not be able to tighten down and land the fish.

[buzbait88]

Wow, great responses from everybody seems to be a very knowledgeable group here. I don't really have much to add, but I would like to say that at the end of the year you take 1 bait caster and put it in free spool, then tie the line onto another reel and reel it onto the other reel. All of the braid underneath will look brand new and the old stuff will be far enough down you won't ever see it. Its what I do and it saves a ton of money.

[nmanley]

I used my first braided line for bass fishing when it first came out in the late 80's. The only one offered at the time was 80lb test and was pale white in color. I bought a 600yd spool.

I always use Mono filler back then to save money but it turns out there is another reason more important! Braid is hard and has NO give to it. When your pulling like hell to get a hung up lure free you can break your reels spool...YES I said BREAK it. Today's fancy expensive reel spools are made even lighter. The Mono acts like a cushion to ease the snap you place on the spool.

I'm just getting back into the Bass game after a 15 year break and I bought some 30lb braid and a BIG old 600yd spool of Zebco 14lb mono to use under all my high $$$ lines! That flouro line and Braid is EXPENSIVE STUFF.

Gonna try me the tape trick as I don't like tying the dang doctor knots.

[chopsticktown]

I was always wondering about a mono or flouro backing, thanks for the info guys!!

[Fish30114]

A quick tip for getting the line on the bottom of your spool to the top, take an empty soda bottle, and screw the top off. Drill a 1/4" hole in the center of the top and run a 2" or so long 1//4x20 machine screw or bolt through the hole and snug it down with a nut. Now screw the top back onto the soda bottle, with the bolt sticking up, which you can chuck up into your drill. Spin the line off of your reel onto the soda bottle. Now do the same thing again, and spin the line off of the first soda bottle onto a second soda bottle. Now you have the new line on the BOTTOM, from there, reel the line onto your reel, and you will have the old line on the bottom of your spool, and the (mostly) 'un-used' line which had been at the bottom of your spool on the top!

This is how I flip it around, so to speak, and get twice the life out of my line.....