baitcaster tips??

[boloson]

hi everyone,

new here & new to baicasters. have researched many vids on youtube hence how i found this forum. found that the vids on this site were the most helpful (short vids yet very informative). i've read a lot regarding the set up of a baitcaster and want to use braids but i'd like to avoid using a mono backing or tape on the spool. assuming that the baitcaster has a wiffle type spool, would tying straight braid through the hole have slipage issues?

[BigBassin144]

You can tie to a hole in the whiffle spool, or just use 10-20 feet of mono backing.

Just curious, but why don't you want to use a mono backing?

BB

[boloson]

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

You can tie to a hole in the whiffle spool, or just use 10-20 feet of mono backing.

Just curious, but why don't you want to use a mono backing?

BB

thanks BB. i've used mono to braid on my spinning gear before and didnt really feel the benefit of the braid? maybe its all in my head. then i went to the local basspro shop & 1 of the reel guys told me to use braid directly and i definitely noticed a huge difference then.

plus, i'm not good at tying knots let alone tying 1 line to another

[Jrob78]

I never use backing with braid. I tie directly through the wiffle spools so it doesn't slip and a full spool of braid lasts a very long time for me so it isn't really much of a cost issue.

[boloson]

Originally Posted by Jrob78

I never use backing with braid. I tie directly through the wiffle spools so it doesn't slip and a full spool of braid lasts a very long time for me so it isn't really much of a cost issue.

no dig ins at all? a regular slip knot with the braid to spool or do u recommend a different knot?

[Imgoodatwhatido]

You are severely limiting yourself. If you are not willing to learn how to tie a knot that joins 2 lines your doomed in this sport. You can tie mono backing to the wiffle spool just the same as you would braid and it WILL NOT slip. If you use braid with no backing at one time or another it will dig in. Then on your next cast its gonna catch that spot and backlash. Have you ever tried to pick a really bad backlash with braid on a reel? I have and it sucks. You may have to end up cutting it off and then there goes 125 yards of braid that cost you twenty bucks right down the pisser. Hope this helps

[Jrob78]

I don't think dig ins have much of anything to do with using or not using a backer.

I tie the braid on the spool using a few regular overhand knots.

[islandbass]

Originally Posted by boloson

no dig ins at all? a regular slip knot with the braid to spool or do u recommend a different knot?

First, let me say welcome to this great site. Tying the braid to your wiffle spool is one option, but I hope you have small hands, because if you don't it might be the most time consuming way to stop the braid from slipping.

As a braid user, I can surely tell you that the two other methods, tape and mono backing are the two most convenient ways to go.

I am a bit perplexed as to how you "lost" the benefit of braid. You will only need about 10-15 feet of mono to make your backing. There is no way that this insignificant amount of mono can detract from or reduce the benefits of braid. So I will agree with you that it's just in your head.

If you are new to using baitcasters, I would recommend that you learn with maybe 10-14 lb mono for practice. It is the most economical route to go. Then when you get accustomed to using your reel, use braid of at least 40-50# test. The reason for this is because braid at that strength has about diameter of the mono you will have practiced with, thereby making your transition easy.

And I only tell you this from my own personal experience when I first used braid. It was also the first time I used my new (at the time) Curado 201BSF. I didn't know jack about casting reels. I didn't even know that all of the brakes were off. And silly me spooled it with 30# braid. I am not a mathematics genius, but I can tell you the answer to the following equation (me):

Newby + Zero Brakes + Uneducated Thumb + Braid = One disastrous and heckuva birds nest.

That was the fastest $15.00 worth of line I ever used. It didn't even last five seconds.

I just don't want to let you make the same mistake. So I can sum it up succinctly as follows:

1) Use mono for learning.
2) Use at least 1/2 oz weight (lure or lead). Regardless of weight, refrain from using items with poor aerodynamics like a spinnerbait or buzzbait. I practice with lead so I don't have to sacrifice any of my lures.

And my only key for the thumb: Use your thumb to stop the spool from spinning BEFORE the lure (or weight) hits ANYTHING, be it the water's surface, a shrub, your neighbor's window, or the ground right in front of you because let your thumb off of the spool too late during the forward portion of your cast.

Lastly, Jrob78 is right. This dig in issue has nothing to do with mono backing. This line dig thing is more of an issue the thinner diameter of braid you use. It's another reason why I recommended 40# braid. At that mark, line dig practically becomes a non-issue.

[boloson]

Originally Posted by Imgoodatwhatido

You are severely limiting yourself. If you are not willing to learn how to tie a knot that joins 2 lines your doomed in this sport. You can tie mono backing to the wiffle spool just the same as you would braid and it WILL NOT slip. If you use braid with no backing at one time or another it will dig in. Then on your next cast its gonna catch that spot and backlash. Have you ever tried to pick a really bad backlash with braid on a reel? I have and it sucks. You may have to end up cutting it off and then there goes 125 yards of braid that cost you twenty bucks right down the pisser. Hope this helps

I didn't say I'm not willing to learn, I just suck at tying knots. I have memorized just 1 knot and that is the palomar. The majority seems to use mono backing and I just wanted to know if its at all possible to just use straight braid. would it make a difference in brands with dig ins? For example samurai braids since It's smoother then most? Or the new 832 suffix since it has gore tex? How about going to heavier braids like 65 lbs and up for example?

Originally Posted by Jrob78

I don't think dig ins have much of anything to do with using or not using a backer.

I tie the braid on the spool using a few regular overhand knots.

Sounds good. Will probably try that for next season while I practice through the winter with a cheapie baitcaster

[BigBassin144]

To simple answer your question, yes you can use straight braid. Just tie it through a couple holes in the whiffle spool. The knot doesn't really matter, as you'll never get spooled by a bass, but I use a simple Arbor Knot. It's basically a slip knot that you tie around the spool.

Brand won't make a difference with dig ins, it's all about line diameter. I personally think 65lb is overkill for 98% of bass fishing applications. I use 30lb without any dig in issues other than when I'm snagged and am pulling on it to free it or break it lose, but you'll get that even with higher tests. 40lb is a good all around diameter.

The main reason I use backing is for cost saving. I can easily spool 3 reels from the same 300yd spool of braid.

Also, I do agree with IB that if you're new to baitcasters, don't learn with braid (or fluoro). 12lb mono is great to learn on, and is inexpensive if you get a big bird's nest and have to cut some line out and respool.

BB

[boloson]

thanks again guys. yes i've been practicing in my backyard with my brothers quantum baitcaster which has 17lbs mono. using a heavy lure to just toss around to get the feel for it. after researching on line i've managed to cast with few bird's nest but i still cant get it to cast that far even with the brakes down to 0. was testing out a baitcaster rig at basspro shop & the guy just throws it with very little effort & the lure flew quite a distance. asides from experience is there a specific part i should be concentrating on?

[pro reel]

the reason for using tape backing is to keep an arbor or clinch knot from slipping the entire spool of braid. Using a mono backing will do the same thing, but it then has an extra benefit of cost savings with braid. I buy 300 yd spools of braid and spool 3 reels with it. I have a system to put on enough mono that I use exactly 100 yds of braid. It's a bit of work with switching line from spool to spool, but it's worth it to me. Braid digging in on spools has nothing to do with a backing. Quite the contrary, a mono backing would stop a deep dig in, if it made it to the mono. As for a knot. tie a simple double clinch knot to tie the braid to the mono and then add a drop of super glue to be sure it never slips. In short, you can tie braid directly to the spool IF it goes through a hole and back out so that it can't posibly let the entire spool of line slip around the spool, but braid is expensive and I would rather use mono under it.

[BigBassin144]

Originally Posted by boloson

thanks again guys. yes i've been practicing in my backyard with my brothers quantum baitcaster which has 17lbs mono. using a heavy lure to just toss around to get the feel for it. after researching on line i've managed to cast with few bird's nest but i still cant get it to cast that far even with the brakes down to 0. was testing out a baitcaster rig at basspro shop & the guy just throws it with very little effort & the lure flew quite a distance. asides from experience is there a specific part i should be concentrating on?

If you have the brakes off and still can't cast far, you probably need to adjust the spool tension.

Check out this article in how to adjust a baitcaster. http://basschat.yuku.com/topic/8/t/R...l.html?page=-1

BB

[islandbass]

Originally Posted by boloson

thanks again guys. yes i've been practicing in my backyard with my brothers quantum baitcaster which has 17lbs mono. using a heavy lure to just toss around to get the feel for it. after researching on line i've managed to cast with few bird's nest but i still cant get it to cast that far even with the brakes down to 0. was testing out a baitcaster rig at basspro shop & the guy just throws it with very little effort & the lure flew quite a distance. asides from experience is there a specific part i should be concentrating on?

Absolutely! What I say here applies assuming that the reel is set to the lure's weight correctly and it isn't too windy during practice.

This is one major key that newbies who come from a spinning or spincasting background have little or no experience with, and that is because there is no consequence to making poor or sloppy casts with those two reel types. And that key is to learn how to use the lure's weight to properly load the rod.

If you come for a spinning or spincasting background (as I did), there was no penalty for failing to do this. A decent cast might still result. However, with a baitcaster, it can result in a backlash, or a cast that yields poor distance.

You will know that you properly loaded the rod during your cast when you feel the lure's weight pull the rod tip behind you. Then, after the rod tip gets pulled back to its maximum (by the lure's weight), its direction reverses and shoots the lure forward. This energy stored in the rod loading up will be sufficient to make a cast of substantial distance with no extra effort from the angler.

Some people, during the back cast, are already motioning forward well before the lure's weight ever had a chance to load the rod. Depending on the timing, it can lead to an overrun or a cast with little distance. Chances are, they'll hear the "whiff" of the rod by their ear before the rod tip ever got pulled back by the lure.

The next time you're practicing, go through the motions of making a cast, but keep your thumb on the spool. Feel the rod tip bend back and go forward a few times and look up at the tip while you do this. You will see the lure's weight load the rod and spring forward. That is what you should look for and focus on when practicing your casts.

You mention how the guy made it look effortless, right? That's because that is exactly what he did. When a rod is properly loaded with the lure's weight, there is or should be very little other effort from the angler as you have observed from that guy.

[boloson]

Thanks BB. I actually read that 2 days ago and will make the necessary changes.

Islandbass so it is mostly finesse instead of strenght? I'll have to check out what u said about loading up the rod. I've read somewhere before regarding wrist position when casting? It's all wrist and forearm?

Again, I really appreciate the fast responses guys. Hope I'm not a pain in asking too much questions.

[MississippiBoy]

Originally Posted by boloson

Islandbass so it is mostly finesse instead of strenght? I'll have to check out what u said about loading up the rod. I've read somewhere before regarding wrist position when casting? It's all wrist and forearm?

Again, I really appreciate the fast responses guys. Hope I'm not a pain in asking too much questions.

That's the ticket. All the muscle in the world can only do so much. Let the rod do the work for you. Timing your cast to where you release the spool with your thumb at the same time the rod whips forward and the lure is going to the place you want it to is the key to the whole procedure.

Practice will make this a lot easier than it sounds, just like driving a car or riding a bike. If you think about all the different things you have to do at the same time, it sounds really difficult. But after a while, all the different steps become one smooth technique, and anybody can look like a pro.

Well, except for this guy:



And don't worry about asking too many questions. Most of the guys on here like teaching someone how to fish as much or more than they enjoy fishing themselves.

[islandbass]

Originally Posted by boloson

Thanks BB. I actually read that 2 days ago and will make the necessary changes.

Islandbass so it is mostly finesse instead of strenght? I'll have to check out what u said about loading up the rod. I've read somewhere before regarding wrist position when casting? It's all wrist and forearm?

Again, I really appreciate the fast responses guys. Hope I'm not a pain in asking too much questions.

I think you can say it that way, but it might be easier to visualize it is more about technique than finesse. Whether an angler is pitching a finesse lure to a little hole in the lily pads or chucking a 3 oz swimbaits, the principal mechanics are still the same. The rod still gets loaded by the weight of the bait.

With that said, when casts are made efficiently (that is, as mississippi boy put quite well, in letting your tools do the work and loading the rod properly), it sure will look effortless and look like every cast made is "finessed." Not only that, it feels cool too.

As for questions, keep asking. My posts were made to help shorten your learning curve, thinking back on my own journey learning. I had a big challenge in learning until I starting analyzing what I was not doing correctly and arrived at the points I have shared with you.

[bamabassman]

FIRST AND FORMOST............WELCOME TO THE ABSOLUTLY BEST SITE ON THE WEB BUDDY!!! secondly.........that is me in the picture mississippiboy posted. yep.... i too am having a hard time flipping and pitching. PRACTICE,PRACTICE,PRACTICE!! this is the ONLY way you will learn my friend. take the tips offered to ya, these guys are the best (except for the bloke that said the comment bout me, hahahahaha). i LOVE braided line now. and i have 2 rods with it on. one with a mono backing half spool, the other full spool of braid. and i can't tell ANY difference in "FEEL". so i think it is a personal choice myself. and like my brother,cousin, half wit out-law or whatever he is, said......never think you are asking too many questions, we love questions, never a stupid queston either, just a stupid answer in my opion. no matter how many times we get the same question, we understand when a "newbie" comes along and will answer you like we have others and those that did the same for us.



one thing though.....be ready for some laughs ok? we joke like kin and love like kin. don't take offense, and give what is given. you'll be just fine.


OH YEAH.........HAVE FUN!!!!

[boloson]

thanks again everyone. practicing as we speak

[boloson]

ok, got to cast heavy lures with good results. felt the lure and used its momentum (as suggested) to cast it & actually got some good distance from doing so. but the lighter lures....not so good. adjusted the brakes & tension & still birds nest. any suggestions?

[Tavery5]

Boloson, what are you considering light lures? I think most people believe anything under 1/4oz to be light. If you are trying to cast lures 1/4oz or less, it can be difficult on a baitcaster. If there is no wind, you have the correct line, your reel is in good shape and you have the correct rod, you should be able to throw lures in this range with some success. There are bait casting reels that are specifically designed to throw the lighter baits, but most are in the upper price range. If you don't want to spend that kinda money on a bait casting setup, I would recommend using a spinning reel to cast lighter baits.

[bamabassman]

<<agree with tavery on this one. spinning reels for anything 1/4 ounce and under.

[boloson]

Originally Posted by Tavery5

Boloson, what are you considering light lures? I think most people believe anything under 1/4oz to be light. If you are trying to cast lures 1/4oz or less, it can be difficult on a baitcaster. If there is no wind, you have the correct line, your reel is in good shape and you have the correct rod, you should be able to throw lures in this range with some success. There are bait casting reels that are specifically designed to throw the lighter baits, but most are in the upper price range. If you don't want to spend that kinda money on a bait casting setup, I would recommend using a spinning reel to cast lighter baits.

ok that would make a lot of sense then lol. i was thinking to myself, "man this reel sucks or am i really that bad at casting?". i was using a wacky rigged 5" worm. i have some lucky craft cranks but really dont want to damage those so i rigged it with the worm. thanks for opening up my mind to a whole new aspect of fishing

[Tavery5]

Can you give us a little info on the setup that you are using. You should be able to cast a 5" worm on bait caster without much problem. I throw weightless T-Rigged Senkos on bait casters a good distance. Make sure you are getting your reel setup properly before you begin your casting. Again, tell us a little bit about the setup you are using, ie rod length, power, action. Reel make and model and the line #test. We can get you fixed up from there.

[boloson]

Originally Posted by Tavery5

Can you give us a little info on the setup that you are using. You should be able to cast a 5" worm on bait caster without much problem. I throw weightless T-Rigged Senkos on bait casters a good distance. Make sure you are getting your reel setup properly before you begin your casting. Again, tell us a little bit about the setup you are using, ie rod length, power, action. Reel make and model and the line #test. We can get you fixed up from there.

i am using a quantum select rod 7' MHF 17 lbs mono with a quantum DS301CX baitcaster reel. 6:2:1 gear ratio if that makes a difference. the bait is a yum 5" stick worm rigged wacky on a gamakatsu wacky weedless hook. i set the magnetic brakes at the highest (10) and the spool tension for the worm's weight. i believe i set the tension correctly. a quick flick (maybe 5ft), it cast fine. an attempt to cast far resulted in a birds nest first try. am i just overzealous in that cast? and i believe senkos are heavier then then most plastic worms out there?