I think we all can agree...

[Lilmoosecountry]

In his head he think he is. Until they ship his job oversea's. Bet he'll think different then!!!

[WTL]

A job is not life support. If they ship mine overseas, and they wont, but somehow if they did, I would just change professions and move on instead of crying to the government to bail me out (welfare, tariffs) or crying about how somebody else in another land was willing to do the same thing I was doing for less.

[bamabassman]

i have had to "change" careers too many times because of nafta wtl. i am 46. there isn't many things i can do in this high tech world. and the jobs i do qualify for are hard labor jobs. what is a man near 50 gonna do, i already have had 2 hernia surgeries. and a very bad back. i can't climb and do roofing cause of my knees. and wal- mart don't pay well for door greeters. and i am not a collage grad. i have had more jobs than years of age. i am tired . tired of taking orders from a collage kid who has never phiscally gone out and done the job he says that i should do. and if you question the guy, he acts like you are just jelious because he is your boss. he then proceeds to get on you butt and make an example of you. when all you are trying to do is help. when you tell him that, and in a professional way, he doesn't even listen to you. trust me, i have been there. i have been a boss and a part of the crew. as i am now. do not be fooled about the jobs going overseas. if you look at history, you will see that we are getting back to where it was in the 20's and 30's. and even before that. the owners are concerned with nothing but money and power. there are some who have more money than their 5th generation family can spend. now i am not against capitalism. all for it. but the gap between the well to do and the poverty is getting wider and wider. the comanies have almost complety destroied the unions. it very near impossible to go on strike. they government is involved in too many things. if you were to go on strike, they send in the scabs, and you the worker can not stop them, if you try, you get put in jail or you could die. i can go on and on. but i am tired, had to shovel trash all day with a small shovel. lol will tell you more when we meet. you sound very interesting. you are of course smart. i am for real on that, not joking. we could really talk about alot of things. we may not agree, but we can certainly have some good conversations, lol.

[WTL]

Bama, you know the man I learned the most from fishing wise was an old Jersey union man through and through.

What I am saying here is not how I wish the world worked. Its just how it works. If the world worked like I wanted it to, it would rain beer twice a week. If the world worked like I wanted it to, attractive women really would be concerned with character and not what you can buy them. If the world worked like I wanted it to, bad things would not happen to good people, men would get compensated for their work accoriding to how hard they worked and governments would be unnesessary, only handshake agreements would govern us.

The world is not such a place though. It can be tough. Sometimes I hate it too, but the alternative, this myth of, as Obama says, "yes we can", threatens to change very little for the better, and much for the worse. Capitalism is in many ways the natural scheme of things. Its how we as kids worked, lemonaid stands vs coolaid, cutting grass vs caddying. As is, I believe if you work hard and smart and don't die, you will be OK in this country. Look at the history of the world. We complain about how many we have in this country who are defined as being poverty stricken, but many of our poverty stricken would have been considered wealthy in other eras or locations. We are doing well. We can either try to make things exist that will never exist, play God and try to create utopia on earth, or sit back and understand that despite it's imperfections, this world is God's, that he has created it to be so for his own purposes, and to not question with our ignorance the purpose for which he has willed it into existence.

[Rebbasser]

A little food for thought. It may or may not be accurate. Apparetly it came from the LA Times:

From the L.A. Times


1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens

4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County ).

(All of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)


Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.


Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth (and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York ) results from immigration.

29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

[bassinbob]

Moose you think it's bad now? Wait till Hillary gets in.

[bassthumb32]

dont get pissed off now that you are 50 and have nothing to do you put yourself in the position you are in more than 30 years ago it prolly started out with you not paying attention in school. then taking a minimum wage job and not advancing yourself i have no pitty for people like this. My dad is one of them he never tried the right things to advance himself he will be working in a steel mill till he retires and making practically nothing but thats the life he chose. just as anyone else going down the same path. you made the decisions to put yourself there so stop complaining.

[Lilmoosecountry]

Originally Posted by Rebbasser

A little food for thought. It may or may not be accurate. Apparetly it came from the LA Times:

From the L.A. Times


1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens

4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County ).

(All of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)


Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.


Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth (and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York ) results from immigration.

29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

How can any body say that this country is not be tooken over with stats like that. Yes i am a republican & DAM PROUD!!!

[WTL]

To be a republican these days is a hollow thing. The GOP is today a party of big-government. They have lost their way, and Reagan would be ashamed to see what has become of it.

[Lilmoosecountry]

Well being a liberal is worthless. Gay marriage, Gun control, Peta supporter, Big Goverment, Big taxes. These are not the values of Harry S Truman. I don't see how you can be a hunter or fishermen with values like that.

[brushhog]

A thinking man in this day and age can no longer align himself with strict party affiliations. Anyone who does that may as well just run off a cliff with the rest of the lemmings... Selecting a candidate strictly by party in any election - local, state or federal is forfeiting your right to the democratic thought process. candidates need careful scrutiny - witness the conservative outcry against "fellow republican" John McCain. Now, more than likely, if you consider yourself a staunch republican careful scrutiny of all the candidates for any office will probably lead you to the republican candidate. But it is in the scrutiny that we learn about all the candidates, all the issues and thereby immerse ourselves in the true democratic process. We must also refrain form one issue voting, many people vote based strictly on high visibility issues; abortion - gun control - immigration are good examples.

[WTL]

Do you not get it man? Both the GOP and the democratic party are full of big government liberals. I am not a big government liberal. I am closer to an oldschool conservative, somewhere in between Barry Goldwater of yesteryear and Ron Paul of today.

The problem is there are about 5 or 6 hotbutton issues that politicians use to control their stupid constituencies. I would say abortion, gun control, gay rights, entitlements; people vote on these issues instead of focusing on the bigger things. The politicians are the same as always, they like to let elections hinge on small potatos issues that they feel they can make speeches about, all the while ignoring the big stuff.

In the south, politicians used to talk about 1 thing alone; race. The elections always went to who would be the biggest racemonger, who would be strongest in favor of segregation, ect, ect. All the while the state governments were incredibly corrupt and we were getting little to no use out of the soutern economy. The George Wallaces like it that way though, they had friends who would be hurt if they stood against corruption, and race provided a perfect issue to confuse the masses with. Same thing today, except with illegals. Now, we instead hear how everything in this country is the fault of illegals; there is tha tpost above about how illegals are getting all these entitlements and yall are focusing on the illegals; I however am asking the big question, why the F does the government need to spend all this money doing things it has no constitutional or moral authority to do in the first place? Not just illegals, forget the damn mexicans, the government is just too big in general. If we take care of that problem, pretty soon maybe yall will realize the mexican issue is just a tempest in the teapot.


But lets not stop there, I will point out another instance of politiicians using a galvanizing red herring issue. This one is in the middle east. Do you know why they hate us in the middle east?

Its not because they hate freedom. Its not because of even religion for most over there. No, the politicians in arab countries need a scapegoat for why their countries are so corrupt. SO, they blame America., Big bad America. Ahmadinijad rode that to the Iranian presidency. He just blamed everything on AMerica, and it made his constituents feel good, it made them feel like it wasn't their fault that they lived in a ****ty country. Well, the AMericans arent why Iran is a ****ty country, that fault belongs to the Iranians. But we provide a good scapegoat to the iranians, just like the mexicans provide a good scapegoat for us.

Get it?

Brushhog, you are quickly becoming one of my favorite posters. Instead of focusing on issues, lets focus on jobs. What is the job of a politician? To do what the job description says. What is the job description of the president? To uphold and defend the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic. Have the past 3 presidents done that? No, they have in reality been hostile to the Constitution. THERE is your problem.

[brushhog]

Analyzing the constitution is dicey at best.. How do we discern the motives and meaning of men who wrote over 200 years ago? In todays terms they wold be considered racists (slaveholders), evangelicals (religion ran deep) as well as big party politicians (They were really the only politicians).. so how do we interpret such a document? you have to examine its basic concepts as they apply to today, even at its most basic it certainly has been abused more so in recent years than ever before, Although some old political icons did their share of bending, Kennedy comes to mind among others. Who among these left in the race to you trust most to uphold the ideals of the Constitution?

WTL - your point of scapegoating is well founded, it was once said that religion is the opiate of the masses: in a society moving further away from God, I belieive that Politics is becoming the opiate of the masses - make most people feel good and it doesn't mater what you actually do..

Lilmoose- thank you for your postings on this thread - I enjoy and respect your opinions. And believe it our not as an independent third party I don't see you and WTL as far apart as you may think... I think you both love this country and want the best for it and that may be the most important common ground!

Now let's all meet on neutral ground and catch some really big fish TOGETHER!

[WTL]

I'd love to talk fishing. I'm still enjoying this thread though, but don't let me talk yall to death.

Hog, in response to a few things on the Constitution, it should be seen as a contract and interpreted with good faith. That the men who wrote it were very fallible does not nessesarily entail that the contract they penned is fallible. If we were to completly ignore it, or neuter it by calling it as Hillary has said a "living document", then we leave us defenseless. Democracy will not save us from tyranny, either foreign or domestic.

We have 1 man running this year who is a defender of the US Constitution. Ron Paul. He is the man. And currently enjoys the support of almost an entire 1 percent of the US population.

[Rebbasser]

What is the job of a politician?

To get re-elected/elected and hang on to their power.

They will give you platitudes about protecting the Constitution, representing their constituents, blah, blah, blah, but bottom line their FIRST priority is staying in power. On BOTH sides of the aisle.

I'm a Reagan conservative. I believe in a strong military, lower taxes and smaller government. NONE of the candidates that has a chance of winning are who I want, so it will come down, for me anyway, to voting for the lesser of two evils and against the greater of two evils. And I HATE having to do that. But I'm not willing to throw my vote away voting for a third party candidate, and I sure don't want hillary or osama in the White House. Or McCain, either for that matter, but I can't with a clear conscience sit this one out and not vote.

[Christopherkeene9]

C-Rig

Actually Cubans way of "illegal" immigration that you alluded to is actually legal and their only way. But the only way for it to be legal is for them to set their feet on U.S. Soil.

[bamabassman]

wtl and brush, and yes you too moose, are all right. as for bassthumb... i am not feeling sorry for myself. really i am not. i DO wish i could have spent the last 30 yrs in a steel mill. that is where i started. heck i would have a fantastic retirement now. but the economy as it has been has not let the chips fall my way so to speak. yes i should have studied more, everyone here would say the same thing. i loved the mill, wanted it badly. loved the job. it was hard dirty work. but i was young then and now i am not. and i ain't 50 yet. just 46, lol. feel like 70 sometimes,hahaha. but i dearly love this country, wouldn't want to be anywhere else. i love alabama, it is home. and growing up my father moved us to every state in the southeast. just to make enough money to raise 4 kids. i watched him work 3 jobs to have the money to buy my brother and i sneakers each year. and not the high dollar leather ones they have today, i am talking about the old converse chuck taylors. and i learned what the value of a dollar is the hard way, cause my father taught me that. for instance, when my brother was 13, i was 12. we got to talking about what kind of car we were gonna have when we got our license. our father said to us "boys when you reach 18 i will buy you a car". i thought about that for a couple of days. and then i asked him," you said you would buy me a car when i get 18, right?" he said "yes". i said ok, i get my license at 16, then i have to wait 2 yrs before i can drive? he said yes if you want me to get you a car. i said ok. then i told him i was gonna have a car BEFORE i reach 16. he laughed and said" well you will have to buy it yourself". i said fine by me. you see, at that time i was already working, helping my uncle with his corn, watermelon, peanuts, and cotton feilds. driving a combine. i am no stranger to work. i love to work. i worked that next summer at a peach and plum farm. mom and dad were gonna show me how much it takes to make REAL money. i paid for the gas mom would use to take me to work and back. that was 4 trips at 30 mins each way. i paid my own meals. and so forth. well i saved 100 bucks over 3 mons. that fall we took dads old clunker to the shop. mr. "slick" myrick (his real name too, slick). he had an old 1956 ford f100 truck there. i saw it there for about 3 weeks. it never moved. one day we were there and i asked mr. slick about the truck. he said a fella never paid him for the work, so, he got the truck. i asked how much he wanted for it. he said 100 bucks. i started right then and there. bugging the crap outa dad, every day. even mom. finally dad was gonna teach me another leason, he let me buy the truck. MUCH to the hatred from mom. but i got the truck at 13. no one had a key but me and dad. i kept that old truck for 3 years, added 2 cars with it too. a 70 dodge charger, and a 68 vette. and i PAID for them all. dad paid for the ins and gas in school time. then i paid in the summer. guess what my brother got? he got old 74 satelite sebring with 120000 miles on it. not the 79 i-roc he thought he was gonna get. cause he never worked in the summers. so, when i say i am tired, really i am just sooo..... i dunno. i just feel tha tthis country is out of focus. i think it has been since after ike. and like most of us here on this site. i am thinking that this country is not going in the right direction. every polotician is out for themselves and not for the people. and the government is way too big. in , i think it was..1950 something. that it took 5 workers to pay social security for 1 who is on it. may it was 10 , i can't remember. but now for every recipent, it takes 3 workers. at this rate there will not be any left for us in our 30's and 40's. and that is a fact. and i am alot like reb, i really don't like any of the front runners. this country needs some one to come in and really take control of the white house. reagan, i voted for twice. and then i voted for ross perot. not because he was the best canidate. but rather because even though he would not get anything done. at least he would have shook up the d.c. and he probably showed america what really goes on there, behind closed doors. i like ron paul, he seems right for us. but he will never get in cause he is so right about so many things.we, meaning the majority of americans, are so caught up in the mumbo jumbo that they are talking about. that we are losing sight of the real issues. maybe after 4 years of their mess we will have a real american stand up there and straighten things out for awhile. i cartainly hope so. god bless each and everyone of you guys here. and god bless america.

[bamabassman]

sorry this is so long guys.

[WTL]

Bama, that was a great post and I enjoyed reading it.

[bamabassman]

thank you wtl. and bassthumb everyone gets down sometimes. that is why we have friends. to help pick us up from time to time. and when you feel down, call me and i will pick you up bud. for real. now.. lets go fishing!!! lmao!!!

[lunker-lander]

I'm kind of worried I now started this thread... This is a bass fishing site!

-Lunk-

[bamabassman]

it's all good lunker. we all just got cabin fever. hahahaha i know i do. it is raining like ---- right now and the temp is falling. where o where is spring? lol,lol.

[lunker-lander]

Around the corner! (I really hate this Bass Cabin Fever! This is my first year with it...)

-Lunk-

[CarpMan]

Originally Posted by bamabassman

wtl and brush, and yes you too moose, are all right. as for bassthumb... i am not feeling sorry for myself. really i am not. i DO wish i could have spent the last 30 yrs in a steel mill. that is where i started. heck i would have a fantastic retirement now. but the economy as it has been has not let the chips fall my way so to speak. yes i should have studied more, everyone here would say the same thing. i loved the mill, wanted it badly. loved the job. it was hard dirty work. but i was young then and now i am not. and i ain't 50 yet. just 46, lol. feel like 70 sometimes,hahaha. but i dearly love this country, wouldn't want to be anywhere else. i love alabama, it is home. and growing up my father moved us to every state in the southeast. just to make enough money to raise 4 kids. i watched him work 3 jobs to have the money to buy my brother and i sneakers each year. and not the high dollar leather ones they have today, i am talking about the old converse chuck taylors. and i learned what the value of a dollar is the hard way, cause my father taught me that. for instance, when my brother was 13, i was 12. we got to talking about what kind of car we were gonna have when we got our license. our father said to us "boys when you reach 18 i will buy you a car". i thought about that for a couple of days. and then i asked him," you said you would buy me a car when i get 18, right?" he said "yes". i said ok, i get my license at 16, then i have to wait 2 yrs before i can drive? he said yes if you want me to get you a car. i said ok. then i told him i was gonna have a car BEFORE i reach 16. he laughed and said" well you will have to buy it yourself". i said fine by me. you see, at that time i was already working, helping my uncle with his corn, watermelon, peanuts, and cotton feilds. driving a combine. i am no stranger to work. i love to work. i worked that next summer at a peach and plum farm. mom and dad were gonna show me how much it takes to make REAL money. i paid for the gas mom would use to take me to work and back. that was 4 trips at 30 mins each way. i paid my own meals. and so forth. well i saved 100 bucks over 3 mons. that fall we took dads old clunker to the shop. mr. "slick" myrick (his real name too, slick). he had an old 1956 ford f100 truck there. i saw it there for about 3 weeks. it never moved. one day we were there and i asked mr. slick about the truck. he said a fella never paid him for the work, so, he got the truck. i asked how much he wanted for it. he said 100 bucks. i started right then and there. bugging the crap outa dad, every day. even mom. finally dad was gonna teach me another leason, he let me buy the truck. MUCH to the hatred from mom. but i got the truck at 13. no one had a key but me and dad. i kept that old truck for 3 years, added 2 cars with it too. a 70 dodge charger, and a 68 vette. and i PAID for them all. dad paid for the ins and gas in school time. then i paid in the summer. guess what my brother got? he got old 74 satelite sebring with 120000 miles on it. not the 79 i-roc he thought he was gonna get. cause he never worked in the summers. so, when i say i am tired, really i am just sooo..... i dunno. i just feel tha tthis country is out of focus. i think it has been since after ike. and like most of us here on this site. i am thinking that this country is not going in the right direction. every polotician is out for themselves and not for the people. and the government is way too big. in , i think it was..1950 something. that it took 5 workers to pay social security for 1 who is on it. may it was 10 , i can't remember. but now for every recipent, it takes 3 workers. at this rate there will not be any left for us in our 30's and 40's. and that is a fact. and i am alot like reb, i really don't like any of the front runners. this country needs some one to come in and really take control of the white house. reagan, i voted for twice. and then i voted for ross perot. not because he was the best canidate. but rather because even though he would not get anything done. at least he would have shook up the d.c. and he probably showed america what really goes on there, behind closed doors. i like ron paul, he seems right for us. but he will never get in cause he is so right about so many things.we, meaning the majority of americans, are so caught up in the mumbo jumbo that they are talking about. that we are losing sight of the real issues. maybe after 4 years of their mess we will have a real american stand up there and straighten things out for awhile. i cartainly hope so. god bless each and everyone of you guys here. and god bless america.

Boys and girls, what Bama just said is true "Americanism". Thanks Bama

[Rebbasser]

Very well put, Bama.