Good idea or bad idea?

[joedog]

I absolutely hate being undecided!
And this topic has stuck on me for a LONG time.
And I'm still undecided!

Now I DO NOT WANT ANY POLITCAL BULL!
This is how do you feel as an INDIVIDUAL, as a sportsman, as a Fishing Enthusiast, as maybe a NASCAR fan, college fishing, heck I think I saw them sponsor pro wrestling events. So I'm pretty sure everyone is somehow affected as a TAXPAYER.
We are kind of talking a lot of money.

cut/paste
In 2011 and 2012, the National Guard alone has spent $121 million on professional sponsorships, including $20 million for professional fishing and $90 million for NASCAR, Indy car, and motorcycle racing. Over the past five years the National Guard’s sponsorship of NASCAR’s Dale Earnhardt, Jr. and his #88 team has cost taxpayers over $136 million.

I am aware of the McCollum deal at the end of June.
I'm also aware that this is all about recruiting.
Do the Armed Forces need to really recruit at that level at all?

But Shane set me straight, I'm pretty sure the Marines no longer are involved with sponsorships, all other branches are. National Guard being the leader.
Shane and the rest of my heroes I truly want your thoughts.

So as always, I'M LOOKING for HELP!
You thinking this is a good investment or a poor investment?

And even a POLL!

In the mean time, you anglers have the very best day you possible can!

[Dogmatic]

I don't like NASCAR, but I think it's a good investment, our military needs all the volunteers it can get.

[bassboogieman]

I think they should save or re-direct the money the military spends on advertising and follow Isreal's example of compulsary "NATIONAL SERVICE, for all those that are physically and mentally capable. Either military service (with the attached college money AFTERwards at one year of college for each year served) or social services (again with a reduced college contribution). Minimum service requirement 3 years.

That would accomplish several positive things. Training during service that would transfer to civilian life and help getting those individuals jobs. College educations for many more Americans without the "student loan" issuses (payback or defaults). Those choosing the military would learn a little disipline, something I see as severly lacking in many. Military service might just lead people to understand a healtier lifestyle and include a little exercise in their daily regimine, that just might reduce the epidemic of obesity and other health related issues due to lack of exercise.

And just might it be possible that "universal service" COULD improve our national health (long term), lead to better education or trades training to get more American employed, improve personal disipline and respect for others, as well as established a TRAINED reserve force that could be activated in times of "national emergency", like war or weather catastrophies like Katrina or Sandy, and with better educated and employed citizens might crime decrease? Then all those millions invested in advertisement could be the nest egg to pay for the "bennies" of that national service? Personally, I would agree to a tax increase to SPECIFICALLY support that program.

[Dogmatic]

+1 BBman! I was just going with the system we have.

[Tavery5]

I was 19 years old and working in the oil fields of Western Kansas, it was the hottest, coldest, hardest job I ever had. It paid well, but I had no benefits, my wife was about to have our first child.

One day I'm setting on the couch watching TV and a commercial comes on, be all you can be, or something to that effect.
I thought this sounds like a good deal, training benefits, good pay - I went down and signed up the next day, thinking to myself this will be a great job for a few years until we get on our feet a little better.
I spent the next 20 years in the Air Force, I had a good life and it provided the means for taking care of my family.
I think you know what my vote is.

[Dogmatic]

Originally Posted by Tavery5

I was 19 years old and working in the oil fields of Western Kansas, it was the hottest, coldest, hardest job I ever had. It paid well, but I had no benefits, my wife was about to have our first child.

One day I'm setting on the couch watching TV and a commercial comes on, be all you can be, or something to that effect.
I thought this sounds like a good deal, training benefits, good pay - I went down and signed up the next day, thinking to myself this will be a great job for a few years until we get on our feet a little better.
I spent the next 20 years in the Air Force, I had a good life and it provided the means for taking care of my family.
I think you know what my vote is.

There's only two votes...did you vote, it's a poll.

[Tavery5]

Originally Posted by Dogmatic

There's only two votes...did you vote, it's a poll.

Well hey if it's a poll, I'm all voted up. What did I win?

[WTL]

I disagree strongly with BBman, but since it borders on the political, I will let you invite me to elaborate...
( i think I already pissed off someone on facebook today because I responded to their political status, and pretty much deconstructed their argument)

As to the military advertising, I guess one question is, does it really work? Especially advertising on a nascar vehicle?

Another question may be, do we want soldiers who only enlist because they saw something on the side of a car, or do we want them to volunteer so that they might serve?

A 3rd might be, how many more soldiers do we need? And for what?

[joedog]

The pluses
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute...es/ksil379.pdf
Some definite strong points!

The minus'
Israel is puny !

The USA is 474.7 times (453.5) times the size of Israel.
Israel is only 3000 mi. larger than New Jersey.

The biggie...the COST
The US currently spends 41% of the WORLDS spending on military now!
Which, at nearly $700 billion, is bigger than that of the next 17 countries combined.
$151,824,003,000 on personal alone.
This doesn't include Veteran benefits for anything including health care.

Unfortunately, the budget numbers can be a bit confusing too. For example, the Fiscal Year budget requests for US military spending do not include combat figures (which are supplemental requests that Congress approves separately). The budget for nuclear weapons falls under the Department of Energy, and for the 2010 request, was about $25 billion.

So is it a great idea, in my opinion, yes.
Is it financial feasible, in my opinion no.
But bottom line is there are few Vets even in the House or Congress today. Most have NO clue what they are even voting on.
This alone may justify Mandatory Enlistment.

And lets not forget gender....if my grandson must do combat, your grandaughter should too.

Tav made a GREAT choice...CHOICE being the key word.
Wonder if he'd feel the same if he was REQUIRED to join right out of High School? Wonder if it would changed his career choices because he didn't already experience any other.

Tav, Thank You and all other current and retired service folk!
I owe you alot! You aint getting it, but none the less, the debt is there.

Oh my challenge with advertising is it's directed solely at lower and middle class folk.
What's up with that?

And finally to anger everybody....isn't Military Spending just another entitlement program?
Aren't I entitled to Shane and Tav and all service folks risking THEIR lives and making sacrifices for ME. You know I don't FEEL THAT WAY!

[WTL]

What happens to civilian control of the military as a concept if everyone is ex-military?

[Tavery5]

Joe, I appreciate your thoughts. You owe me nor any other service member anything. We freely enlisted for our own reasons. We took the oath and accepted the responsibility that came with it.

A "thank you for your service" goes a long way, and is all that is ever needed in my mind.

Before anyone looses their mind, I am speaking of the post draft era Veterans. There were many who had no choice.

[nofearengineer]

NASCAR advertising: If the military thinks they are getting more bang for their buck, then fine. They have to advertise somewhere, and I'm sure it works better than if they posted ads in The New Yorker.

Compulsory Military Service: not a chance, except in times of war via the draft. Besides, aside from physical condition (which I am obviously not a fine example), this country has devolved into a bunch of people who lose their mind if they can't check their text messages for more than 5 minutes. Frankly, I don't want the 90% of the country who can't hack it mentally, dragging down the 10% who volunteer and excel.

[joedog]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

NASCAR advertising: If the military thinks they are getting more bang for their buck, then fine. They have to advertise somewhere, and I'm sure it works better than if they posted ads in The New Yorker.
MY point exactly...target audience is WHO?

Compulsory Military Service: not a chance, except in times of war via the draft. Besides, aside from physical condition (which I am obviously not a fine example), this country has devolved into a bunch of people who lose their mind if they can't check their text messages for more than 5 minutes. Frankly, I don't want the 90% of the country who can't hack it mentally, dragging down the 10% who volunteer and excel.

That's funny, while I researched I came across about how the Israelis had to ban phones from the military for just that example. They were tweeting from the battle field, true story.

[Tavery5]

Originally Posted by WTL

What happens to civilian control of the military as a concept if everyone is ex-military?

I think you answered it in your question. EX-Military, civilian typically refers to non combatants, once you retire or end your enlistment/commission you then revert to civilian status.

[WTL]

Originally Posted by Tavery5

I think you answered it in your question. EX-Military, civilian typically refers to non combatants, once you retire or end your enlistment/commission you then revert to civilian status.

True, in the sense that Ike was a civilian and yet commander and chief.

Yet I think the question does bring something into focus; are we supporting mandatory military service so as to make a larger portion of the population identify with the military emotionally, and is that a good thing given civilian control of the military?

The reason why we have traditionally not liked military control of government or military matters is, there is a fear that it upsets a sort of power balance in society. Would mandatory military service upset that same balance?

[Dogmatic]

When I think of mandatory service to one's country, I don't necessarily think of just military service. There are other ways to serve. As to the target audience of NASCAR, I know plenty of team owners and their families and "friends" that watch occasionally...

[joedog]

Originally Posted by Dogmatic

When I think of mandatory service to one's country, I don't necessarily think of just military service. There are other ways to serve. As to the target audience of NASCAR, I know plenty of team owners and their families and "friends" that watch occasionally...

Check the link I posted.
It addresses just that.
No need to read whole thing, although a good read, the index can guide you. Brings up things I may not of considered. Doesn't really matter what you think one way or the other. It really argues the compulsory duty, civil or military. And the WHYS. Also talks about education and compensation for those who excel and make a career of it, civil or military
Billy it also address' civilian and military dissociation.

Hey I'll wet the whistle....this guy is talking EIGHT year mandatory and this is from a General's view point. It was an official report for something. A lot of decision makers read this. Oh I think there's like an 18 month boot camp and training for all or something.
Like I said, good read.

Oh and I've enjoyed EVERYONE'S thoughts!

[WTL]

8 years? What are we, sparta?

[joedog]

The two that voted, I refuse to take part in the poll, took part in the poll!

[Tavery5]

I think we should offer a choice, two years in the Military, or two years of passing grades in the College of your choice(at your expense). Could have some interesting effects, may help some understand the value of education. In the Military the better you score on the ASVAB, the better the job you qualify for.

How important is the ASVAB test?

Your scores in four critical areas -- Arithmetic Reasoning, Word Knowledge, Paragraph Comprehension and Mathematics Knowledge (see below) -- count towards your Armed Forces Qualifying Test (AFQT) score. The AFQT score determines whether you're qualified to enlist in the U.S. military.

Your scores in the other areas of the ASVAB will determine how qualified you are for certain military occupational specialties and Enlistment Bonuses. A high score will improve your chances of getting the specialty/job and signing bonus you want.

Scoring high on the ASVAB will require study and concentration. Don't skimp on preparing for this test. It's your future. Get the most out of it

[Highhawk1948]

Bring back the draft!