Gas Prices!!!

[Lilmoosecountry]

My Arse!!!! They blame gas prices on supply & demand. Then why this morning did i here a report that said the average american is driving 4.3% less. In the same report said united States is driving allot less. In fact compared to last year that is 11 million miles less compared to last year. I did'nt want goverment to get involved but i believe they have to. Gas companies are one of the issue's for a crumbling economy. If people are'nt driving there not spending money & stimulating the economy. I read a nother report that stated this is hurting tourism dollars in many ways. Now with price hikes in airlines. There exspecting about a 38% drop in flights. We need to hold Big Oil accountable in some way. If you make the GI Joe doll with the kung Fu Grip. And your constantly changing prices because of the cost of Price RAW materiels. You would be charged by the goverment of PRICE FIXXING!!! So why can Big Oil get away with it.

[doc]

It's getting to the point where I cant afford to fish. I agree the goverment should do something, they can start by socking it too the record profit every quarter oil execs.....

[WTL]

Lilmoose I respect you as a fisherman, you are just wrong.

This graph is of the prices for crude.



Now they make gasoline, diesal and pretty much a whole lot of things from refining crude. As the price of crude goes, so goes the price of gasoline. Crude has doubled since this time last year. We are actually lucky we arent paying more for gas.

The oil companies dont set the price of crude.

I stole the following from a website on the subject.

Who sets crude oil prices?


The answer is that crude oil is a global commodity. It trades in a worldwide marketplace where the price is determined by supply and demand. Growth in world demand is outpacing growth in supply. A strong global economy needs oil to fuel vehicles and make products from tires to asphalt.

The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, which produces about 40 per cent of the world’s oil, also influences prices by setting the production levels of its members. Other factors, like damage to U.S. production facilities from Hurricane Katrina, have reduced supplies this year.



We need to stop creating boogeymen in this country. We have enough real problems without them.

[WTL]

Also, before yall get carried away with a bad idea.

If the government setting a price ceiling was all we had to do to solve this problem, do you not think it would have been done already? Say at $2?

There is a reason why the government isn't getting involved in that manner. It would make things much worse. MUCH WORSE. You are taking one of the largest functions of the economy and trying to bind it unnaturally by an arbitrary number. I can imagine off the top of my head that at the very least we would experience gas shortages and lines, but there is a lot of bad that would happen as a result of the invisible hand that I can't even forsee. The oil companies would probably sell most of their gas elsewhere and America would have to run on half the energy that it had run on. Then our economy would collapse.

[WTL]

Back in the early 20th century, the south was segregated via Jim Crow, and the politicians normally ran as ardent segregationalists. They campaigned on the issue of keeping blacks down. The blacks became their boogeymen.

In the 50s, the communists became the boogeymen.

Now, government officials can't decide if we should make the boogeymen out of al qaeda or oil company execs. The truth is politicians always need a galvanizing force, a reason to motivate their constituency. If they cant find a legitimate cause, and legitimate causes are too much trouble to deal with most of the time, they will find a red herring issue. Hence, segregation. Hence the red scare. Hence the Patriot act. Hence those who blame everything on oil companies.

BTW, people on other countries use the boogeyman phenomena too. Why do you think the arabs give a flip about America? Well, the reason is because the average Arab politician uses America as a scapegoat, we are imperialist and that is why they are so poor is what they say. Hence, Al qaeda has lots of stoopid youths to recruit from who believe in...ahem, the boogeyman.

The problem is politicians care more about being re elected than telling the truth if the truth takes more than 2 sentences to explain and doesn't deliver a villain. And in the case of gas prices, thats the truth. Any politician who tells us otherwise during the upcoming campaign, any who throws the blame at a party that doesnt deserve it, I will not only not vote for but protest in general. We need to stop being so naive. You want a boogeyman? The politician is far scarier and more destructive than most of the imagined threats out there. You really want to be scared? Look at the national debt and the degredation of the dollar, which is another reason why our money doesn't go anywhere these days. The national debbt and the degredation of the dollar is not, repeat IS NOT the fault of big oil. It is the fault of big government. The policitican. Welcome to their game, rubes.

[Jim80]

Most of the time a change in price has nothing to do with the demand . the main problem with the prices is the people who speculate on the stock exchange floors , for example if oil is at 90 dollars a barrel and they speculate that they can trade it at 110 dollars a barrel then the price changes to reflect that , also another problem with the supposed supply and demand is the major oil companies are not required to report who much crude oil is kept in storage in the ports , where there is more than enough oil up and down the coasts of the country to keep oil prices low . We are starting to see a time were alternative fuels are going to need to be developed and made available to the public . The rise in oil prices is doing more than affecting just the us economy it is starting to effect the worlds as well , when you have people predicting $7 a gallon gas by the end of the summer were do you draw the line ? And as towards economical collapse it's already starting to happen 16 out of the 50 states are already in a recession and the rest aren't far behind and when that happens how do we fix it ? US currency is losing value compared to foreign currency and with people chosing wether to heat their homes or put food on the table for their families were is the fix going to come from , right now job growth and creation in the country is being equated to a new walmart being opened which does not spur economic growth it just maintains the level of poverty in a area , real jobs in this country have been replaced by low paying menial jobs and every day major employers are shipping more and more work over seas which is killing our economy as well but it's the time we live in and there is not much the average person can do to stop or change it so we are learning to deal .

[doc]

The goverment isn't getting involved because we have a free market. I also agree that attacking the oil companies won't solve the problem, but when we are paying sooo much for fuel now them turning in record profits every quarter is just plain bad. I also understand they invest alot of money into alternative fuels etc,.... but profits are profits. (monies - overhead and investments = profit ) If the goverment/ or the oil companies made a move it would also signal our strong intent on lowering the prices to the rest of the world.

[Jim80]

Also there has been no major reduction in the availability of oil in the last year . There has also been no decrease in crude being imported in to this country . The supply of oil is in no way damaged and while a small amount of can be blamed on last years events , for the price of crude oil to rise you expect there to be some sort of shortage in the supply of it .
If you want to belive in the phantom shortage or the problem in supply and demand then you deserve to be paying high prices for gas and oil . But if you really look you will see that the demand has not rose and the supply has not gone down the oil producing countries are shipping just as much oil as they always have and even though oil company executives do not set the prices of oil do you think it's right that they are taking home millions while the rest of us struggle to survive ?

[Jim80]

At a congressional hearing last week when they asked one of the oil big wigs about his pay he said he doesn't pay attention to how much he makes , the guy is on a 14 million dollar a year salary with out bonuses and all the other benifits now if you think they can't do something about the price we pay i got some ocean front property for sale in arizona .

[WTL]

If you want to argue that the price of a barrel of oil is on a bubble right now I will agree with you. Its ridiculous that it has gone up like it has. I just don't know how one could keep the price of the commodity down, hence its going to be this expensive no matter what.

Complaining about oil execs wont get you anywhere. They take home compensation that is related to the free market - they try and get the highest salary possible - same as you and me, only they are getting millions. Yea we could rob them and take their money, then we would be socialists.

I am saying all this even though I drive a Dodge Ram. Its really killing me too. I can hardly go home to see my family its so expensive. But I am not going to assign blame to the wrong parties. What we are seeing is a historical correction that has been a long time in the making. A lot of people are going to go broke, get desperate and most of all change their lifstyles. It is the march of history. No sense in getting upset about it, its not new. Things will get better after they get worse. Did yall not see this coming? It happens all throughout history, like the industrial revolution - that was accompanied by a lot of pain, pitiful wages and quality of life - eventually the industrial revolution was a good thing but the change that occured with it was jarring to those who thought in one mode and one mode only.



Jim, that 14 million aint a drop in the bucket, it aint a tear, it aint nothing compared to the money involved in the worldwide gas trade.

If that bigwig worked pro-bono and donated that 14 mil to easing the price of gasoline, it would reduce the price you pay at the pump by something like .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000001 cents a gallon. The big wig is irrelevent next to something this large.

[Jim80]

true , that no amount of complaining about it will help but when people start talking about shortages and supply and demand which really have nothing to do with the current reflection of prices it kinda bothers me . i equate it to talking about iraq or other general topics along those lines and while all the complaining in the world won't affect the price at the pump it lets a little frustration out , i don't know what your paying a gallon right know but ct is up to 4.62 a gallon for regular . between my wife and i , i'm spending $300 a week on gas and i thank god i don't use oil for hot water and heat . but when the price of something is speculated on don't you think that the guys that speculate are on the oil company payroll ?

[flfireman]

I agree w/ all said. Still they need to cut that $75.00 max off the gas pumps. I get to 3/4 tank and it goes click, some even say" You have reached the maximum allowance for this pump". What's worse, you can't use the same debit or credit card to start the pump back up.

[Buzz Wing]

I guess you could also blame it on the Arab's hatred toward the U.S. Not to sound extreme, but if someone invaded your territory, in this case, your home, wouldn't you be pissed as well? I sure would.

I am in total agreement though, these prices are totally outrageous. $4.07/gallon is gonna start to sound cheap soon.

-Buzz

[WTL]

don't you think that the guys that speculate are on the oil company payroll ?

You're paranoid, the speculation isnt exactly helping the oil companies. When an input of production goes up in price, it doesnt, I repeat doesnt help your business out.

[BigBassin144]

The stupid thing is we're paying extreme prices for gas, while the oil companies are making more and more each month.

BB

[WTL]

While you are crying about how prices are so extreme, here is a chart to mull over.

There is this thing called inflation you see. What inflation is, class, is when the value of a dollar is diminished compared to its value at another time. For example, a can of Pringles in 1995 cost from .99 to 1.29 most places, now it costs 1.80 to 2.20 most places except big lots where you can get them stale. The reason isnt because the value of Pringles have gone up, but because a dollar is worth comparitivly less.

Per this chart, you can see that gas has gone up recently, but not as much as people think when adjusted for inflation. Inflation not only costs us more money at the gas pump, but the store, theatre, online, tax wise, everywhere. Inflation wipes out savings and debt. It is a bad dude.

[Jim80]

i have no problem with inflation and am far from being paranoid but can you say that the average pay rate has increased to match inflation ? even down south were the average cost of living is lower gas has put a major crunch on peoples spending habits , inflation doesn't match to a few dollar raise in prices in 6 months . well i'm heading fishing with the kids so we can continue later .

[CMorg]

I will tell you what would help the gas prices.... if WTL's little man would stop pouring it on himself...haha.

Switch to propane power , its 2.20 a gallon right now. Jasper Engines can convert most vehicles for as little as 3500.00. I * may * consider this.

[3dkicker]

WTL - Got a question for you. How come the US companies who get the oil from the US and then process it into gasoline here aren't selling their product at a much lower cost than the ones that buy it from outside the US? They aren't spending $130 a barrel for their oil. And I doubt very much that their cost has gone up to demand the price per gallon they now charge. Please to be explaining.

[bamabassman]

because we are SAVING OUR GAS. that is what we are doing gang. using up theirs and saving ours. then we will have the monoply on the crude. that has been our goal all along.

[Buzz Wing]

Muhammad,

Aren't you runnin' a Jasper in that Dodge of yours?

-Buzz

[WTL]

Good grief, if you are gonna spend 3,500 to convert an engine you might as well just throw that money at gas.

[Jim80]

you could always spend that 3500 on a 1989 hatch back honda civic , well ok 850 on the honda civic rest of the money on fishing gear .

[Rebbasser]

Originally Posted by Lilmoosecountry

We need to hold Big Oil accountable in some way.

Ain't big oil, hoss. Try congress. They are the ones that have all the laws saying how and where oil companies can drill. Can't drill in ANWR, off any of the coasts, or oil shale from Colorado. Besides, do you know who makes the most money from a gallon of gas? The federal, state and local governments. Here in San Antonio they make $.38 a gallon. The oil companies make about $.08 a gallon

Originally Posted by 3dkicker

WTL - Got a question for you. How come the US companies who get the oil from the US and then process it into gasoline here aren't selling their product at a much lower cost than the ones that buy it from outside the US? They aren't spending $130 a barrel for their oil. And I doubt very much that their cost has gone up to demand the price per gallon they now charge. Please to be explaining.

Because they CAN'T GET THE OIL thanks to the idiots in congress. They are not allowed to drill, build refineries or anything. Thus the price of oil keeps going up due to high demand worldwide and a shrinking oil supply.

Regarding the $130 per barrel-it's the world market, not the oil companies that set the price. And, contrary to what some believe it IS simple economics-supply and demand. China's and India's economies are exploding with growth and there is more demand than ever before. High demand+limited supply=high prices.

Why are oil companies making such huge profits? Simple: They have a product in high demand.

How about congress pulling it's head out of it's arse and take the cuffs off the oil companies so they can go get more oil, increase the supply, and cause prices to fall? Makes sense to me.

The democrats were going to save the world when they took control of both houses of congress in 2006. Since then the economy has slowed, the housing market has gotten real bad and gas has gone up $2 a gallon.

Unfortunately for us the 2 political parties are more concerned about how to keep their power and what is best for their party instead of what is best for America, so unless they pull their heads out just expect more of the same.

because we are SAVING OUR GAS. that is what we are doing gang. using up theirs and saving ours. then we will have the monoply on the crude. that has been our goal all along.

Could be, bama, but that is going to take a long time and get VERY expensive before we get there. How about we drill, build refineries and become energy independent at the same time developing new energy sources and technologies? Wait, we can't do that-it makes too much sense and congress and making sense are mutually exclusive.

[doc]

[quote=Rebbasser;189838]

The democrats were going to save the world when they took control of both houses of congress in 2006. Since then the economy has slowed, the housing market has gotten real bad and gas has gone up $2 a gallon.
[quote]

The economy is a direct result of the bush administration, not the democrats taking the house. I also believe that no party will fix it, they cant stop blaming and bickering long enough.